Jack Rice: When People Make an Argument for Racial Profiling They're Either Lazy, Arrogant or Racist
By Heather Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 7:00am
Former CIA officer Jack Rice hits back hard at the comments made by Pete King and his cohorts about racial profiling on the Ed Schultz Show.
Schultz: Jack Rice this is a political hot potato for the White House. How far does the White House want to go with this kind of line of defense? What do you think?
Rice: My response is they push back hard on what Peter King said, what Pete Hoekstra said—I mean there is no room for racial profiling in this country. Every study that I have seen—and I’m a former prosecutor too—every study I have seen has shown that it’s far more effective to follow what it is that people do rather than what they look like. And if we think about the broad picture now—let me see if we get this right. If we’re going to racially profile, we racially profile everybody across the Middle East. Now we find that this young 23 year old man from Nigeria—most of Nigeria is Christian by the way—so I guess what we’re going to have to do is include all of the people of Africa. But now let’s contemplate al Qaeda in the Philippines, so now we have to include people in Southeast Asia, so now we have about four billion people.
Look, I think when people make an argument for racial profiling they’re either lazy, they’re either arrogant, or frankly they’re racist. This is a foolish idea and the worst part of it all is that what we’re going to do is alienate about 1.5 billion Muslims. We desperately need these people on our side. If we go down that path we’re in a very, very serious problem.
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biggest troubles with racial profiling re: terrorism is that terrorists, and even Islamic fundie terrorists come in many colors. We've got the man from Christmas, who is Nigerian, we've got Filipino Al-Qaeda, Southwest Asian Al-Qaeda, Arab Al-Qaeda, etc. etc. And if it were left up to the morons who want to racially profile, they'd let Azzam the American or John Walker Lindh walk right on by on account of their being white Americans.
And don't even get me started on Timothy McVeigh...
... how do you recognize race and/or religion? I've been mistaken for Japanese, Hawaiian/Pacific Islander, Filipino, and Korean (I'm Chinese).
Security: "Excuse me, Sir, are you a Muslim? Muslims have to go through additional screening and a body cavity search."
Muslim: "No."
racial background by complete strangers, and have been guessed wrongly as Jewish or Scandanavian, correctly as Hispanic or Caucasian (non-Jewish and non-Scandanavian), and how do these racial profiling idiots know whether *I* or you, or someone else here is a terrorist but doesn't fit the profile? These people are too simplistic, I swear.
I could agree with people who think profiling based on behavior will work, but at the same time, how do we know it's not a nice Muslim family who is just acting shifty and uncomfortable because they're used to being unfairly and wrongly profiled?
That was a refreshing interview
the neo-nazi's, the White supremists, the von Brunns[ old jewish men], the teabaggers- after all-- they called for death to Obama, and on and on!
Keep them all off the planes, too!
Hoekstra is an ass--along with Demint, and Boneher! This must be to divert the attention away from the fact that the repubs designed all the policies--but did not bother to fund most of them--that we have in place
... Umad Farouk Abdulmutallab, Richard Reid, and the 9/11 hijackers.
They were all airline passengers.
I say we round up everyone who flies and throw 'em into camps. It's clear that people who fly are a grave danger to the safety and security of this nation. We have to treat this seriously, not like some convenience store robbery!
/snark
but now lets not give King Hoekstra ideas. they dont have any to offer so this might sound good to them.
as being fearmongering grandstanders of the highest order. these two dolts are such amazing loudmouths. they can point fingers but when it comes to solutions they arent going to offer bupkus. after the Census I hope NY can reapportion outta existence ol Pete Kings district. sheesh.
...should go on a list!
I want to be protected from homegrown terrorists too!
From the Oklahoma City bombings, the killing of abortion providers, the shooting at a the museum?
So,lets add all the white(Oklahoma City),Christian(abortion killings),
Right wing, white supremacists, persons.
If you are only looking at color(brown), then you are missing a lot of people who have killed others.
I think when people make an argument for racial profiling they’re either lazy, they’re either arrogant, or frankly they’re racist.
He left out...ignorant.
how about: "an enemy of public safety"?
while the tsa screeners are busy cavity searching grandpa abbas, john walker will be on board the plane, being offered a cocktail
our intelligence/surveillance resources are limited, and if we are to have any hope of their being effective, they must be apportioned in a rational, non-reactionary manner
GOP sees opportunity in terrorism
Dec. 29: The Washington Independent's Spencer Ackerman talks with Rachel Maddow about the GOP's effort to politicize terrorism, undaunted by hypocrisy and contradictions in their own past, to promote torture for its own sake.
... Rachel, but I loved Spencer's comment about 'the terrorists aren't supervillains with heat vision'.
There's plenty of Muslims who look (or are) non-arab, and it's not too difficult to change a name to Joe Smith.
... the no-fly list includes Joe Smith and Bob Johnson (but probably not Jack Mehoffer or Heywood Jablome).
... security that's more than a trope from World War II-era movies, where the Nazi spy was always tripped up by a question about the World Series.
..oh-oh.
I don't follow sports.
..why it is the xmas day bomber is in jail already and w still walks around a freeman. There isn't a bigger terrorist in the world right now as far as I know and we just let him walk around. What's up with that? So all of you pasty-white, frat-boy, drunk, coked-out, war criminals better not fly anywhere. Hear that karl rove?
Everyone, everywhere should be banned from flying unless we all fly nude. Quick hurry, buy stock in the "Mile High" club, see-through plastic and edible undies. Wasn't there jokes about flyin' nakid when it was predicted al-qaeda would find a way to put explosives in underwear? I am more a-scared of turbulence than terrorists.
of my own Government than I am of any terrorist. Ever since the WarPig years I get very suspicious of highly publicized 'unsuccessful attempted terrorist attacks' on U.S. soil. As I write this CNN is making a big deal out of a 'suspicious' van parked somewhere in New York City. Makes me think of the old fear mongering days of Bush$Co. What's the old cliche? Once burned forever shy. No pun intended.
yip
. . . and this Crusade . . ooops, I mean war, uh effort . . uh purpose . . uh sheet who gives a sh*t it's money baby! Ya don't make money wit out an enemy in our business!
Cut cut cut!! What the hell he's doing! Go to commercial!!!!!!!!!!!!
it's too obvious. the plan hatched by prick chainey and enron is still in effect. the three-part war plan to take Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran is still being executed.
then we tAkE India. . then we . . I'll take a triple burger wit cheese wit a quadruple chocolate shake!
Coming right up, and you sir? . . I'll TAKE TAKE TAKE . .
... the War on Terror, or a game of Whack-a-Mole?
Gee...interesting how Yemen all of a sudden started popping up in the news. The United States doesn't have a base in Yemen, YET! Iran just fealt a tightening of the noose around its neck.
Geo-political war keeps on keeping on.
has a nice beach.
"Shut him up! Cut !!!!!"
Why is it an "either/or" question?
because our intelligence resources are not unlimited . . . an average of 2 million people fly each day on domestic airlines alone . . . we cannot scrutinize them all, or even a significant percentage of them, so we must use rational criteria to narrow our focus
And that's why profiling by racial means as a manner of culling terrorists from our airline travel is a failure in the making.
Which "race" do we profile?
The white guy...the black guy...the other dark skinned guy...the woman wearing a sari...the child of any color...
Just where the hell do we start?
If we want to be really proactive...we
spend the $$$ to hire more intelligence officers
provide a platform for information sharing and fund its operation
add 10 x the number of security screening agents and demand that they be educated, trained and paid accordingly most likely as an extension of the airport police department with some of the same powers
Add the same number of security checkpoints
Add bomb sniffing dogs to every security checkpoint
Screen each passenger thoroughly (debate what that means)
Add luggage technology to every airport to detect explosives in cargo and personal baggage
Partially fund publicly and run some pieces of some airlines to get more jets in the sky and more opportunities to fly on different flights so we avoid some of the logjams currently in place that preclude a thorough security from being implemented and conducted
I'm sure more folks have more ideas...
But we can always spend $5 Billion a month on some wars...
Notice how these Hate Mongers NEVER OFFER SOLUTIONS> Right away it is Profile register, sign up, it must be terrible being a republican christian NO free thought, No critical thinking and NO CHOICE other than the PARTY CHOICE.
Please investigate the Republican Party they are the only ones that stood to gain from this they had their people at the Embassy it is being over looked that the father REPORTED this yet it wasn't handed on or sent forward. Further proof a republican CAN NOT be trusted.
No solution just SURRENDER but a bunch of Spineless Cowards.
1. Drop a bomb on it.
2. Build a wall around it.
3. Blame the liberals.
At a more fundamental level, conservative thought is both resistant to and afraid of change. Terrorism, which undercuts laws and borders and concepts of civil & political discourse, is something conservative thought is ill-equipped to handle.
So they turn to the only methodology they have: heavy-handed oppression.
You forgot Cut Taxes
funding something for the common good is Un-American.
This guy was throwing up so many red flags he should have been stopped before he ever boarded the plane.
we don't want the professional profilers paid a decent union wage either.
"Look, I think when people make an argument for racial profiling they’re either lazy, they’re either arrogant, or frankly they’re racist."
Or they're trying to appeal to the lazy, arrogant and racist among us. Sadly, that adds up to a whole lot of us.
in public, I am on the very best end of racial profiling. Just a few days ago, I was stopped by the state police for an expired sticker on my license plate. I had the registration and the torn sticker, and the explanation that I didn't want to affix the sticker without access to some clear tape, and I forgot about it. (All true, but sounds lame.)
Additionally, I didn't have my driver's license with me. I had taken it out of my wallet over the weekend, along with my medical card and money, to go to the laundramat with just the basics in my blue jean pockets, and had left them at home in the jeans.
Very nice young white male state police officer asked for my date of birth, called in my license, saw no priors, and let me off with a warning.
I doubt I would have had the same outcome had I been male, young, dark-skinned and/or with a foreign accent.
"This is a foolish idea and the worst part of it all is that what we’re going to do is alienate about 1.5 billion Muslims. We desperately need these people on our side."
Thank your for that statement. In my opinon is the single most intelligent reason to not profile by race, religion, or ethnicity.
There are lots of good reasons but that one is the most practial and logical.
I am not for racial profiling...but country profiling. Everyone without a US passport should be subjected to higher security screening. You would still have Americans go through a screening process, but not as in depth. Because come on, is it really necessary for TSA agents to make a 80 year old woman in a wheelchair stand up and then frisk her legs, like I saw on the news the other night? Or a 8 year old girl (the daughter of a local news anchor) to pulled aside and asked a series of questions (age, DOB, address, etc.) What's next, strip searching infants?
The current "random" selection process in order to not offend, well, basically, Muslims, is a joke. We waste more time on searching bags of a family coming back from Disney World because they had a tube of sun tan lotion larger than 3 oz, then we do then asking Abdullah a few questions.
I will not even get into the whole "full-body scan" debate. Last two terrorists came from foreign countries yet there is a media frenzy about getting these machines into US airports. And this will accomplish what? Like the panic move to not allow people to get up for the last hour of the flight. Yeah, that will stop the terrorist, like he's not going to say "maybe I should light the bomb 2 hours before we land?". Come on!
Gee. I'm not Muslim, and I'm offended by it. Ironic you should post in a thread called "When People Make an Argument for Racial Profiling They're Either Lazy, Arrogant or Racist." Nice of you to prove all 3 of his points.
If terrorists don't really care if 80 year old women and little girls are blown up on the planes they board, what makes you think they wouldn't strap or hide a bomb on either of the two to complete their mission?
Americans don't just fly within the U.S. Far too few Americans never step foot outside the borders which is another topic of discussion for another day. Americans should be prepared to be treated with the same scrutiny as you are willing to scrutinze people from around the world when visiting the United States. If every U.S. citizen was required to fly to at least two foreign countries (preferably countries on another continent) and stay a minimum of a week, the country and the world would be better because of it.
how can a former prosecutor not know the definition of profiling?
it has nothing to do with tracking people, let alone 4 billion of them.
when you're making the decision if you're going to do an extended search on grandma in a wheel chair, or on a young male muslim from yemen, race can be one factor going into that decision.
now you can have a discussion if it is fair to let race or religion influence that decision, because some muslims are going to get harassed by this on US airports, not 1.5 billion africans.
but it helps to know what you're talking about first, mr. former prosecutor.
So, pray tell, what is the definition of profiling?
Because your comment leads me to believe that you actually have no idea. You just know what you THINK it is.
The man is correct. Profiling is about behavior, not about physical characteristics such as race or gender. And such behavioral profiling is a much more useful and accurate method than racial profiling.
Let's start with one little detail. Please explain to me how you take a look at someone and determine whether or not he/she is Muslim?
Tim McVeigh
Actually, McVeigh could have been pretty accurately behaviorally profiled. He's almost textbook. The problem is getting people to understand that this nice, white middle-class veteran is a classic terrorist.
"Hassle the other guys, BUT NOT ME. MY convenience is of the utmost importance. It certainly trumps the liberty and safety of all those other people on the plane. I'm a Christian American white guy. My kind never do anything wrong."
For optimum safety and fairness, if it is really absolutely necessary to hassle people, then hassle them all the same.
Well said. Time to get smart about this stuff and stop fearmongering.
Pure equality is just not smart yet we subject all to the same scrutiny. People with implanted devices are not more of a threat than the average traveler yet they are pulled out of line for extra scrutiny upon a bell ringing. People wearing shoes are all equal but the effort to de-shoe is ludicrous. I have no problem with racial profiling at this time in history, but that should not be necessary. Just get the technology up to speed and run us all through detectors at the doors to the terminals. The secret is to secure the entries. All of them, particularly the back doors to the freight and food prep.
Racial Profiling is for coward
with racial profiling because Timothy McVeigh and the Columbine duo would have been let through without hassle. After all, they looked SAFE.
On a recent holiday trip, I went through security a lot of times in Cairo, Aswan, and Luxor in Egypt and Amman in Jordon. They zipped us right on through, even though our metal parts [back fusions and replaced knees] set off the metal detectors. But they were super-hyper about the Muslims, particularly young men. Point? The Muslims profiled Muslims. Why shouldn’t we? Like the news guy said on the news last night, "Not all Muslims are Terrorists, but all Terrorists are Muslims." Hard to argue with that. Were I an American Muslim, I doubt I’d mind. I'd want to be safe too…
Muslims?
That is frickin' idiotic.
Even if so, how do you make a template of what they look like. Somebody named Lindh with blonde hair and blue eyes probably doesn't fit.
Not hard to argue with what? All terrorists ARE NOT Muslims. By the way, that is not what rep. Peter King said. He said "100% of the Islamic Terrorists are Muslim."
Well, no shit Sherlock Representative King. If one practices the religion of Islam that would make them a Muslim. That is like saying "100% of the Christian Terrorists are Christian."
To name a few terrorists known to be Christians or at least that is what they call themselves....Ted Kasinski (Unabomber), Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph (Atlanta Olympic Park bomber and abortion clinic bomber)
If you were an American Muslim you would be a terrorist by your own accepted premise that all terrorists are Muslims. No-fly list for you and a body cavity search. Enjoy!
Either lazy, arrogant, or racist? More likely all three.
.
R E M E M B E R:
... The Germans separated the Jews.
.
As someone that worked overseas for 12 years I can tell you it does not work well. You just can't believe who can easily get through checkpoints vs who cannot. A former Israeli agent once told me the USA needs to do a better job with behavior and especially intelligence. He said, anyway most terrorists slip up, are nervous, exhibit some serious agitation, etc. And even then it's not 100% certain you have a terrorist in front of you. How do you profile? By name, by skin color, country of birth, clothing? Many flights that come into the USA came from a place with lax security to begin with. Not that ours is so fantastic. Hopefully no one is serious about it. Not effective... and will hurt the USA more than help.
The biggest economic crimes in our history were committed by Jews.
There are more Mormons than Jews in America.
If Geithner, Rubin, Emanuel, Summers, Paulson, Wolfowitz, Bernanke, Greenspan, the 5 Fed families, Goldman Sachs, Lehmann Bros, Bernie Madoff, -- the list is too long to continue... but you get the point.
IF these men were all Muslims -- or Mormons...
Our national dialogue would be confined to HOW DID THIS SLIVER OF AMERICANA come to control the power over the rest of us?
Is this healthy?
Do they serve their own interests over the rest of us?
If you list all the Jews in this administration or the last 3 - you will soon understand that AMERICA is under occupation.
An occupation we may not question, quantify or monitor without reprisal.... or worse - censorship.
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