Howard Kurtz and Debra Saunders Carry Water for Sarah Palin and Her Crosshairs Map
CNN's Howard Kurtz and the San Francisco Chronicle's Debra Saunders did their best to give cover to Sarah Palin for her crosshairs map targeting Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. It's pretty bad when even Politico hack Roger Simon has had enough of your nonsense. As he rightfully pointed out, Palin doesn't have to be directly responsible for what happened with this shooting to have a conversation about the violent political rhetoric coming from her and the rest of the right wing noise machine in America and the fact that it needs to stop.
Edit: A tweet by Howard Kurtz on Saturday.
KURTZ: You just saw that montage, Roger Simon, and you can't make a worse mistake than that, to declare a member of Congress dead. And I find it disappointing, because we've been through so many stores like that, where fragmentary information turns out to be wrong.
SIMON: Well, you're always going to get certain things wrong on these stories. The number of dead always climbs and shrinks, and climbs again.
I remember as a young school kid hearing that Vice President Johnson had been shot and President Kennedy had been wounded. That got flipped around. The fact is, we go with what we hear. That's often wrong.
KURTZ: But why not wait? Look, we understand it's happening, you're seeing sort of news gathering in its roughest and rawest form. Why not wait until it's confirmed. If she was dead, we would have found out 20 minutes later. [...]
KURTZ: And on that point, Debra Saunders, a couple of hours after this tragic shooting, even as we weren't sure who was alive and who was dead, I Googled "Gabrielle Giffords" and "Sarah Palin." And lots of stories and blog posts came up talking about Sarah Palin, 10 months ago, putting up a map of the Democrats she wanted defeated, and using crosshairs, gun sites, to represent those targets, and, of course, she used the rhetoric about "Don't retreat, reload."
And in a way that I found to be -- you know, first of all, I guess how about a decent interval? The victims were still being rushed to surgery. But I also felt like, was it fair to bring her into something that she had nothing to do with?
SAUNDERS: Well, it was ideological opportunism. I mean, it's very human, when something like this happens, you want the villain to be the person you hate. And so a lot of people rushed to do that.
You know, I've got to tell you, I'm a conservative. When I heard this story, my first thought was, oh, no, it's a right-wing nut with a gun. And I think that these stories about the Tea Party being a ticking time bomb are crap. I find them offensive, but we know that there are extremists.
KURTZ: But you said, oh, no, it's a right-wing nut with a gun, because you feared that then anybody on the right would, by implication, be blamed for this shooting?
SAUNDERS: No. Because I feared it was true. I mean, that was my first thought.
KURTZ: And let's say it was true. Let's say it was true.
SAUNDERS: But you know, that's not our job.
KURTZ: Hold on. Let's say it was a right-wing nut with a gun. It does seem to have been a nut, a guy -- a 22-year-old kid whose political ramblings are utterly incoherent.
But so why should anyone else be blamed if it was a right-wing nut? Which is was not, by the way.
SAUNDERS: No, it wasn't. And I guess -- I mean, we know that there are extremists and we know that parties have to deal with the extremists on their side.
But I also, of course -- I mean, as somebody in the business -- and let's -- six people are dead. This is an awful tragedy. A little girl who just got on the student council shot. So this is just -- this is not a political event.
KURTZ: It's awful.
SAUNDERS: Let's get that -- it's just horrible.
But I also -- as an opinion person, I could just see myself getting sucked into this thing where a bunch of people -- and there were some people. There were people in the media with no impulse control. People like Keith Olbermann and Paul Krugman, who just, boom, started hitting Sarah Palin and, boom, started hitting the right before the facts were in.
You know, it's our job to first -- it's not our job to give our first impulses, because they are often wrong.
KURTZ: They're often wrong. Let me get --
SAUNDERS: It's our job to get the facts.
SIMON: Let me give you my second and third impulse then.
KURTZ: OK.
SIMON: I'm not ready to surrender the point that what Sarah Palin did by putting crosshairs over congressional districts was a good and innocent thing to do.
KURTZ: No, it was a dumb thing to do.
SIMON: More than dumb.
KURTZ: OK.
SIMON: More than dumb.
(CROSSTALK)
SIMON: In fact, Representative Giffords complained at the time that these ads went up.
KURTZ: Right. We have that tape.
SIMON: Because they were bad things to do, and that they degraded the political culture in America.
KURTZ: OK. [...]
PAGE: Well, I think for one thing, as Roger mentioned, this is not a new issue. This -- ever since Sarah Palin first posted those pictures with the crosshairs, there were complaints about them. And right now I think if the situation were politically reversed, if a liberal was using this kind of rhetoric about a conservative, rest assured, you would hear from the conservative camp complaints.
KURTZ: But that would be just as wrong.
PAGE: That said, I'm not going to jump to conclusions about any particular incident like this one as to what motivated this young man. He obviously does show signs of being unhinged. And it's a little too easy to ascribe political motive to that.
KURTZ: It's a little to easy.
But Roger, you disagree.
PAGE: At the same time though, the atmosphere has gotten too volatile. The rhetoric has gotten too volatile. We need to tone it down.
SIMON: With all respect, Clarence -- and you know I respect you -- what is too easy to do is to ignore the Sarah Palin ads and say we can't know that these ads caused the killing. Absolutely true. We can't know it, we'll never know it.
SAUNDERS: No, no, no. Do not do this. Do not --
SIMON: But then say, therefore, such ads do not require our criticism, do not require us to speak out against them, when this wasn't called for.
KURTZ: At the time, yes, but it's 10 months later.
Debra, let me get you in here because you obviously feel strongly.
SAUNDERS: Yes. Don't cheapen this whole thing. Don't do this yet. We don't know. Let's just -- this is a horrible, horrible tragedy, outrage, awful thing.
You know, what Sarah Palin did, the target stuff, Howie, you wrote about this. It's something campaigns do. It's sort of like an act of guilt, that she erased it. But, you know, this isn't about Sarah Palin.
This is about these six people. This is about a congresswoman who goes out and tries to talk to her constituents and is killed -- I'm sorry -- I made the mistake -- is shot. And don't cheapen this by trying to make it what you want it to be ideologically.
Maybe we'll find out that's the case later, but this is just not the time for it. It's wrong, and you shouldn't do that, Roger.
SIMON: This isn't about cheapening the deaths of those unfortunate people and the woundings of the others. This is about whether we collectively, as the news media, who has a big bullhorn, speak out against the use of such images of targets on people's faces. They didn't use faces, they used congressional districts.
You can't tell me we should say, oh, I'm not going to complain about that because it cheapens the death of those children. It doesn't cheapen it. It gives it meaning of some kind.
SAUNDERS: It has nothing to do with it. But, Roger, it has nothing to do with it as far as we know. If we find out something later, fine. But we don't know that there is any nexus.
KURTZ: We will continue this debate in a couple of moments.
Transcript via Lexis Nexis.
Sorry for the lack of the exact quote at the moment, but I think I can capture it pretty well:
If a Muslim person or politician had been promoting a map with gunshot targets on it, in the wake of such a shooting, where would he be sitting right now?
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
"Embittered angry"... posted it yesterday.
far left loon >.<
how long will it take for those idiots to learn that kos is an open blog, that allows diarists...and the diary they are referring to did no such thing
out with 'blood libel' though--So his support is situational or takes a back seat when ethnic culture comes into play!
Seems he can be helpful to the right unless it hits close to home! just sayin!
right on the head.
NOBODY 2012
you beat me to it...Thanks
It was a DETROIT MUSLIM __WHERE WOULD HE BE SITTING!???
of why I will never get cable TV. The report they did about how the media completely fails us fails for the same reasons they report! The one guy just flat out said, "well things go wrong this is totally normal", if you can't preform your job, shit or get off the pot. Journalists have been reduced to hitting the refresh page on their browser, it's no wonder they fuck everything up, they don't have the man power to send someone right there right then, or maybe, they just didn't give a fuck. Either way? I'll stick with democracy now, this cable TV crap doesn't pass any listen test.
"If it bleeds, it leads."
The facts be damned.
Just a moment to explain why Howard Kurtz and even Barbara WaWa are both feeling sympathy for Sara Palin instead of the victims of this holocaust. Both Kurtz and Walters are neocon zionist who would liike to see Sarah Palin as our next president. Why? She is GWB, to use her words, with lipstick.
Sarah Palin, only last week, was touting the virtues of bombing Iran, which we all know is the not too secret desire of Israel. Do you think the half govenor came up with that foreign policy all on her own? The Kurtzs and Bill Kristol cable are doing their level best to get the US to fight another proxy war for the self described chosen people, who are as we speak, stealing more land from the Palestinians and creating havoc around the world.
don smith
But Tom Delay is going to prison!
3 year sentence - whoohoo!
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
We'll see if Delay ever does any time , he's out on appeal , who knows how long his attorneys can drag it out and what the end result will be . In the American justice system being white , connected and having $ goes a long ways in keeping criminals out of jail .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
There is legal precedent for convicting and imprisoning someone for inciting others to commit murder, even if they did not personally pull the trigger.
Can you say Charles Manson?
Can you say Charles Manson?
P.S. Glenn Beck = Charles Manson
Jared Lee Loughner - crazy and paranoid ?
How about Glenn Beck - http://www.allhatnocattle.net/42109cb.jpg
Get your lemonade, watch the traitors hang
Congress' TREASON have no boundaries, so does M$M's brainwashing/sidetracking
Republicans for Voldemort
Government does work, just not for YOU. Government work ONLY on the behalf of the Tycoons
Repeal stupid
It annoys me tremendously that people are willing to dismiss the shooter as a lunatic. Of course he was a lunatic; you have to be a couple of tacos short of a combination plate to just start shooting people.
That doesn't mean political reasons -- and political influences -- don't come into play.
CaliforniaMike blogs at All Voices and at his own blogs, http://www.mikerappaport.net/onevoice and at http://oneminutewithmike.blogspot.com.
Watching the villagers yesterday and today has been nauseating. gloria borger and jessica yellen couldn’t have been more defensive in favor of the grifter. jonathan alter, chuck todd et al let alone fox.
kurtz devoted an hour to carrying water for this shark.
There isn’t a single media outlet in this country that isn’t owned by a republican biased corporation.
They are all complicit in giving oxygen and light to the career of this grifter, and by extension have blood on their hands.
To render palin ‘not guilty’ is to absolve themselves.
I have consistently protested at huffpo for the glut of postings promoting her.
It is to every outlet that repeats her ghost written tweets, who proliferate her ‘death panel’ proclamations. This isn’t false equivalency.
Every snarky post on a liberal blog feeds this shark.
It is time to close the door and not give her voice.
Forget the "Republican biased corporation" and think of the AIPAC controlled media. Sarah Palin says she hates war. Right! Only last week she was berating Obama for not getting our military into a war with Iran, which is right out of the AIPAC songbook.
How many of these political shows have you ever seen that has a guest on that says, "According to the International Atomic Energy Agency there is no proof that Iran, like Iraq, has nuclear capabilities and there is no indication they want one." Never!
don smith
They were gunning for her.
I'm a lot like Ricky Gervais and the Golden Globes: Why?
Palin and her nutcase Reslug followers and defenders certainly have blood on their hands.
Anyone feel "miss the mark" might have been an insensitive choice of phrase?
Too soon, Kurtz, too soon.
Too bad they seldom do it. What a couple of hypocritical blowhards. As the left has been anticipating an event such as this, now that it has happened, we should be precluded from saying, "We predicted this?" GFY.
Wow, the Reslugs are falling over themselves trying to cover-up for Palin's spewed hatred and possibly the main cause of these shootings.
And Sarah says she's not violent either.
I'm a lot like Ricky Gervais and the Golden Globes: Why?
Myself , I wish the Moose could defend themselves and shoot back .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
but there were alot of incidents leading up to this one...and many warnings from law enforcement officials that something like this could occur
and yet, the right kept up the rhetoric
but I think based on this clip and transcript it is hard to say she is carrying water for Sarah Palin.
She seems to be saying it is premature to focus on who bears some indirect responsibility and we instead should focus on the tragedy of the shooting and its vicitms until we know more.
Kurtz, on the other hand, is Kurtz. He is a two humped camel when it comes to carrying water.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
She is clearly trying to deflect the criticism that regardless of the shooter's intentions or political leanings, that we should focus on the tragedy and not the people who are fanning the flames of violence. It isn't carrying water, it's giving the water carriers cover...until they come up with a reasonable defense. Liberals, like the ones on this blog, have been discussing this possibility for years, and this is just another "isolated incident by a nutjob" that clearly fits the theme - she, and the entire right wing media complex, is trying to focus on the facts in their argument that counter this idea.
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S. Thompson
until we forget about it. That's where she's trying to go. They're so used to Fox watchers, that they think we're stupid, too.
She obviously must have been referring to her dishwasher, right?
Now, what do dishes have to do with the national political discourse, is that a mark we missed too?
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Even if her website had crosshairs on the districts that she only wanted to "target" was in-correct, not people you all mis-understood, they were districts, not people, really not people....
geeeezus....
This is not a debate as of...."you people out there need to stop saying sarah palin (in affect) caused this"...
. No it doesn't mean she was the cause, but she helped with her silly rhetorical...just "re-load" and other hunter coloqualisms ...as if she's the great white huntress, naknookness from the north, brave hunter, and politician supreme.....
Give it up, the woman is simply not qualified to be president....we are looking for sound leadership, not a media darling.....and hopefully the old republican money who quietly dispise this ex-weather girl from alaskan tv will stop her presidential aspirations.....
And as far as these water-carriers above, they made me laugh..."As an opinion person I"...........
Shut-up...everyone has an opinion, what makes yours better than anyone else's...cuz you're TV?
So is Bill Oreilly the sexual predator, and Dick Morris the toe sucking "political expert"...just shut-up...
http://patriotshop.us/product_info.php?produc...
Don't ask me why I watched it but TLC had a sort of marathon of Palin's Alaska shows yesterday and I watched some of them. What I found almost all of them to have was a sense of rawness. Either they were hunting or fishing or just shooting clay pigeons. In all of them Palin was doing or appearing to do these things as well as getting her daughter, Bristol to join her. There was a certain heartlessness about the shows. I think Palin wants to make herself out to be some sort of tough cookie. Not a man's man but a man's woman. In one of the shows she makes a point of telling her daughter not to retreat but to reload. This was at the shooting range when her daughter couldn't hit the target and wanted to stop shooting.
Palin seems to thrive from blood and guts in the sports she appears to like. I don't think she's as tough as she wants to appear. But while she wants to appear a tough chick for her own advancement, she is sending a dangerous signal to those of weaker minds. The ones who don't understand the toughness is not for them but for her own appearance. I don't know if this shooter has ever heard or seen Palin but I fear there are others who feel they need to follow Palin's tough lead out of devotion to her and what they believe her to be.
Remember in 08 she had no problem with the filming of her in front of the bloody turkey killing device. That wasn't the act of a compassionate person.
Palin should be reminded that actions as well as words have consequences so each should be chosen carefully.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
on target about Ms. P, Ms. pop.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
and seeing her rock climbing or roped up on a glacier was pretty funny.
As a climber and backcountry skier I can say.....certain types are never found out there in real nature...without a gun or a machine...
after her "hunting" episode, she does not appear to actually spend much time out there with weapons either.
There is a whole media/political industry set around selling the message that there is an open season on "liberals." And there is nothing new about it.
Palin, just like Beck for example, simply saw that market as a quick meal ticket and a chance for quick brand recognition.
The problem is that segment was already pretty crowded, so these vile assholes have to out crazy each other in order for their name to be recognizable among all the noise of crazy. Probably Palin is so fundamentally stupid that she does not fully comprehend that her rhetoric is only a couple of notches down from the high point of nazi hysteria in the early 30s. Her idiocy is no excuse, and further blame goes to the people/organizations who allowed these dangerous fools to have a national platform.
The media, among others, is especially responsible for this situation. Which is why we have seen the massive ass covering exercise from CNN, FOX, etc in the past 48 hrs. They will never ever blame Palin in the slightest, because to indict her is to also indict themselves. It ain't gonna happen. It will be just another "isolated" incident, extra points if they can get away with somehow blaming the victims. They already started by insinuating how the slain judge had had some less than kosher rulings in favor of illegal immigrants.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
it was first recognized in Outfoxed
Get your lemonade, watch the traitors hang
Congress' TREASON have no boundaries, so does M$M's brainwashing/sidetracking
Republicans for Voldemort
Government does work, just not for YOU. Government work ONLY on the behalf of the Tycoons
Repeal stupid
He did his job. It was a legitimate issue that deserved to be heard in a court of law. The intimidation of judges is getting out of control here along with so many other things. I am ashamed of this country.
And I am sure a judge with such a long career behind the bench was part of a lot of trials/proceedings. I just found it fascinating on which verdict some in the media chose to focus when discussing him.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Happy Hammer in the Slammer Day, everybody!
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropoli...
The desperate and defensive reaction on the right to pointing out the violent and vitriolic rhetoric on their side proves that, contrary to Kurtz's claim, highlighting the insane talk completely and totally hits the mark.
The right is deservedly on the defense here. For once. It's a tragedy that it took something so awful to FINALLY put the spotlight on the right.
But the right is turning to its favorite (and usually successful) tactic of PROJECTING. This interview is a great example of rightwing projection, as is this tweet from Erick Erickson.
They absolutely know for a fact that vitriolic and exaggerated accusations and ascribing of evil motivations sway the electorate. They have been proven guilty of it in the case of Palin's gun sight map. So, they are blaming the LEFT for vitriolic exaggerations by pointing it out.
Remember, what the rightwing accuses its of opponents are doing is actually what the right is doing. Every. Single. Time.
"wrongly" inspire violence against the right. He seems to think that there is such a thing as "rightly" inspired violence. Two-faced idiot. How do such intellectual lightweights get any air time. Oh, wait. Corporate owned media. What was I thinking.
Punching hippies is no longer enough entertainment. The game is being ramped up, and the Villagers are cheering for more extreme action . If they could only realize how ridiculous they sound.
This is just getting childish C&L. Everyone is just going over the cliff because of a map with targets on it. ITs ridiculous. People who commit murder don't do so just because they saw a map or listened to Glenn Beck. Glenn has millions (scary though this fact is) of devoted fans and they aren't going around commiting murder. I just watched several videos on the shooters youtube channel. The guy is straight crazy. He lists mein kampf and the communist manifesto, as well as some classics, as his favorite books. He burns an american flag in one video, not exactly right-winger behavior. His grammar, also one of his favorite subjects, is atrocious and unusual to the point of being completely confusing. If you don't believe me, check out his youtube page. He's no kind of typical person, right or left.
Of course he's crazy. But what set him off? Why did he choose the Congresswoman to target? This was not a random shooting. Even for insane reasons, he CHOSE Congresswoman Giffords' event to shoot at.
He chose a political target. Only one side uses violent and eliminationist language when discussing its opponents. In this insane person's mind, violence against this politician could be justified due to images and words he undoubtedly heard.
This mentally ill person did NOT get his "talking points" about currency reform from the Communist Manifesto or MSNBC. He didn't hear about "2nd Amendment solutions" from Al Gore.
Man, even the monetary talk is completely nutz, nothing like the gold bug stuff. Check it out on his channel. Its more like a strange fantasy he has about becoming a treasurer by releasing his own currency. Its truly weird.
It looks crazy, because it probably is, but those talking points are shared by many people esp in the libertarian end of things. Which is why many of us are less than amused.
The point is not that the gunman was simply deranged, he could very well be. The issue is that he seems to be acting up on the messages being put forth by the right wing hate machine nonstop 24/7for years. And which went into over drive now that there is a black guy in the White House.
Words have consequences.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
No no no, really, don't take my word for it, check it out yourself. Its far, far more individually crafted and unique then you think it is. You won't find a single talking point on his youtube page. finding a coherent sentence is difficult enough.
... that is why it is clear that he was spouting the same monetary nonsense and cuckoo government mind control BS that libertarians and their pals at the teabagging contests are known for.
Now, pray tell... when have the majority of tea baggers have made any shred of sense?
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
thats total b.s.
there is no resemblance.
Of course it's nuts, but he didn't pull it out of thin air or think it up on his own.
He latched onto something he HEARD or READ. And he sure as heck didn't hear or read about it from left-leaning sources.
He also insanely decided that a solution to all he was thinking about was to shoot a left-leaning politician. Again, he didn't pull that our of thin air or think it up on his own. Things that he heard and read, as interpreted by a mentally ill brain, convinced him to do it.
And he sure as heck didn't hear or read those things from left-leaning sources.
No really, check out his channel for yourself, its not full of right-winger talking points. Its very, very strange.
And blaming it on talking points just isn't rational, I'm sorry I can't agree. Should we censor hollywood movies that show gun violence too? or maybe video games? I just really don't get why everyone is taking it for granted that this is part of any political movement.
So you are suggesting that a mentally impaired 22 year old came up with his very own, unique, out the thin air theory on a new currency for the U.S.?
Are you also suggesting that fictionalize entertainment, clearly demarcated as entertainment carries the same weight and clout as sources that purport to be "telling you the truth" and "reporting the news"?
Yeah pretty much. It doesn't resemble any currency talking points I've ever seen. And even if it was, I've certainly never seen anyone suggest that there is some angle to discussions about currency that relates to attacking members of congress.
I think your point about entertainment vs. news is an interesting one, but there just isn't any evidence that he was taking advice from Palin, Beck etc.. Its just not there.
Besides, even if both are hyperbolic, neither of them ever asserted that anyone should be killed or anything of the sort. Handing them guilt for this is just a lot of hot air and exageration. If I thought you could hang it on them, I would be into that. Both of them make me cringe.
You ascribing WAY too much intelligence and the ability to be literal to a clearly insane person.
It is highly, highly unlikely that this very young, very disturbed person came up with the idea that the U.S. needs a brand new currency on his own. It's just as unlikely that he would come up with the idea to shoot a politician on his own.
It is, however, very plausible that he heard and saw bits and pieces of rantings about "the gold standard" and "2nd amendment solutions" and "reloading" and how evil the left is and how the government is the problem, etc.
His mentally imbalanced mind took those rantings and came up with an insane plan.
Dude, there just isn't any evidence to support what you are saying.
His currency views are nothing like a libertarians. Should people stop having debates about currency because a crazy person might misconstrue it to legitimize murder?
I agree with you that he is very crazy, but for that reason he just doesn't fit the profile of a right-wing political operative following the supposedly implicit orders of people like Palin or Beck.
He shot a centrist democrat, a republican judge, and some random people. Wake up from the dream, this isn't like the Roeder thing for instance, which was thoroughly political.
I agree, there is no evidence.
That's why I was discussing likelihoods and plausibility. It's my opinion and the opinion of others that this 22 year old mentally imbalanced guy did not, and could not, come up with his crazy rants on his own in a vacuum.
Do you think he was exposed to no media at all? That he had heard none of the ideas that *coincidentally* have similarities to his rants? Do you think he hear ANYTHING from the "left" or the "mainstream media" that could possibly have contributed to him deciding to shoot at a Democratic politician?
In no way am I suggesting that Palin, Beck or anyone "ordered" anyone to shoot anyone. Nor am I suggesting he thought he heard such orders.
I am suggesting, quite directly, that he heard and read all sorts of rants, complaints, and warnings about how bad government is, how it is the source of all problems and how the all-so-crucial gold standard has been tossed away by "liberals." I am suggesting that he saw images such as Palin's gun-sight map, saw the ads show Giffords' Republican opponent holding assault rifles in camouflage gear. He heard how the liberals are allowing illegal immigrants to overrun his state and cause all sorts of problems.
He put those bits and pieces together in his sick mind and came up with a horrible plan.
And he didn't hear any of that stuff from the left.
I think your suggestion that he somehow came up with that crap all by his lonesome self is utterly unbelievable.
he lives/lived in his parents home still. pretty sure he had no job and spent lots of time watching tv. yes, he is aberrant and mentally unstable, but seeing people on the tube talking about enemies in an eliminationist way can do nothing but stoke those fires. the argument that the spouters of such b.s. aren't complicit in his crime is tenuous. words and their attached ideas are much stronger than most seem to take them. i will never watch beck but am aware that he talks of GOLD and is sponsored by it. come on, america, wake the fuck up.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
No, just like video game violence and the like, the link between a handfull of statements from people you disagree with and this guys murder spree is tenuous. god, hasn't anybody studied psychology, or even soc around here? this is the most unscientific, bias laden, and self supporting circle j3rk i have ever seen. its embarrasing, like the left equivalent of trying to ban elvis because you're sure his music made your daughter have sex.
In 2009, an armed-to-the-teeth mother of three was arrested while casing a National Guard base, thinking it was a FEMA camp. She was a Glenn Beck fan. Three-time cop killer Richard Poplawski of Pittsburgh had uploaded a Glenn Beck video at a white nationalist forum and feared Obama would take his weapons of mass destruction away. The problem with vitriolic speech is that while most adults hear metaphoric words, those who are immature or disturbed take these words literally -- and sometime seriously.
There are a lot of loose cannons out there and yes instigating and agitating can and will light the fuses and set these guys off . Whether it had anything to do with this nut and what he did in Arizona is besides the point . The point is that it needs to stop , the agitating and instigating , the talk of guns , violence , second amendment remedies etc. is coming from the right wing , not from the left , often it is blatant , there is no place for it in a sane and civilized society but then these radical right wing neoconservatives are not civilized .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
CNN hires the Reslug nut-jobs, that were fired, just like Faux Noise does.
Now why would that be her first thought if "both sides do it" or it has nothing to do with the violent rhetoric on the right?
It took more than one attempt to finally put Giffords on the ground.
I'm a lot like Ricky Gervais and the Golden Globes: Why?
This is the same Howard Kurtz that went on a week long attack against Keith Olbermann for donating money to Gabby Giffords. He's now defending Sarah Palin for putting a sniper scope on Gabby Giffords.
eh?
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Since this is being said ad nauseam, perhaps some journalist(assuming we still have one in the USA) could draw up a list of all the hate mongering comments and actions by the left and the right made in the last, say 6 years, so that the American people can really know what's what.
Alfie46
I must admit, when I first heard about the shooting my first thought was, "I hope this wasn't some guy who just watched CHiPs on TVLand", because I knew people would start pointing fingers at all the violence on the TV as causing violent behavior in unstable people. If at some future date when it is more appropriate (say 10 years from now) we can take a look at CHiPs and maybe even Barnaby Jones and we find they are culpable, maybe then Erik Estrada and Buddy Ebsen should be made to bear the burden of our outrage. Until then let's not jump to conclusions.
I ask my teabagger friends who on the left is the equivalent of Timothy McVeigh, Scott Roeder or Joseph Stack. The best answer to date was William Ayers.
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S. Thompson
http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/10935...
http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/29677...
Grizzly apparently thought she could scrub her page and all that stuff a real profile in courage.
I was so angry after just a few minutes I could not watch. I did look up the S.F. Chronicle reporter's email address and sent her a long message, ending by suggesting she read the remarks of the Sheriff of Pima County.
The show was filled with right-wing wrong-thinking IDIOTS. Shame on you Mr.Kurtz!!!
About the murders of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Beck, the Teabaggers, Reichwingnuts, everyone at Fox News and the complete Republican/Conservative Party rejoiced on this day. Even prayed for this to happen.
They are not that irresponsible but quite the contrary. They choose their words on purpose. This is the result they were hoping for. This is why they continually used words of hate, threats, fear and violence. Make no mistake, these people are sick bigots,, evil extremists, hell bent on destroying our freedoms and Democracy.
AND THEY WILL KEEP DOING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN...
Don't let Sarah Palin get away with trying to eliminate any history of her violent rhetoric. This is not "1984".
Don't let her forget: http://themasses.spreadshirt.com/mama-grizzly...
Palin is just as guilty of inciting violence for political reasons as the tea bagger bitch who made the second amendment a verb. But, these childish a-holes won't own up to their wrongdoing because they don't know any other way to get political power.
when arrests are made. Threats of violence are not protected by the First Amendment. I hope in the future the law makes examples of Beck, Palin and their idiotic followers.
NOBODY 2012
ABC evening news asked an interesting question.
How does an unemployed young man afford a $500.00 weapon?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Surveyors symbols are exact, items used by them, Palin's (symbol) is not a Surveyors symbol, got it! it's not the same in anyway if you keep compounding a lie, it only make it worst, as my Mama told me you can't lie, fabricate your way out, admit you made a mistake and go from there. But she' can't she's in to deep and her friends, or those afraid of her are compounding away, but the Truth will stand.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=picture+of...
Ministerbruce
After bragging about beating 18, out of the 20 on Her, her Map, she's says BULLS EYE, now what are Bulls EYES, use in and for and what is targeted, in the uses of BULLS EYES?
Ministerbruce
Mary Rose Wilcox, a member of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors in Arizona said she was devastated. : Wilcox herself was shot in 1997, while walking out of a board meeting, by a man who later said he was angry at her support for a baseball stadium tax. The first Hispanic woman elected to the board, Wilcox, a Democrat, had been the target of talk-radio tirades telling Maricopa County residents to "take her out."
"I knew at the time that the hate had been caused by a lot of the rhetoric that had gone on," Wilcox told HuffPost. "At the trial, the man actually said, 'I shot her because the radio said I should take her out.'"
Kurtz belongs on FOX News, No maby not CNN is just FOX light.
at this point that these two people are anything more than right wing political operatives and propagandists or that CNN is any different? They are not ,in any way, serving the public's interests.
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