Hardball: Mike Pence Won't Say Whether He Believes in Evolution
By Heather Wednesday May 06, 2009 5:45am
Chris Matthews destroys Mike Pence over his and his party's views on evolution and science. Pence thinks Matthews arguments are "weak" but he denies the existence of the knuckle-draggers in his party and basically says he wants creationism taught in schools without using the word.
Matthews: You want to educate the American people about science and its relevance today. Do you believe in evolution sir?
Pence: Um...do I believe in evolution? I embrace the, the view that god created the heavens and the earth and the seas and all that's in them.
Matthews: Right. But do you believe in evolution as the way he did it?
Pence: The means Chris that he used to do that...I can't say, but I do believe in that fundamental truth.
Matthews: Did you take biology in school? Did you take science which is all based in evolutionary belief and assumption. The reason I'm asking this is not to pick a fight. If your party wants to be credible on science you've got to accept science. Do you?
Pence: I always wanted to play in Inherit the Wind but on the global warming issue I know that in the main stream media...
Matthews: See how you're hedging? This is why people don't trust Republicans.
Pence: In the main stream media Chris there is a denial of the growing skepticism in the scientific community about global warming.
[....]
Matthews: I would argue you have a very split position on the issue of science. You have people in your party who don't believe in stem cell research and Federal funding of that, who don't believe in evolution..
Pence: Oh come on Chris...
Matthews: Well let me ask you this does your party agree on stem cell (crosstalk)
Pence: Science is an exploration of demonstrable facts. Isn't it? I think in our schools we should teach all of the facts about all of these controversial areas and let our students, let our children and our children's children decide based upon the facts.
[.....]
Matthews: Here's the ludicrous part. You're obviously as educated as I am Congressman. I'm not challenging your bona fides to have this argument, but there are people on your side of the argument who believe that all the prehistoric bones we've discovered in the world, all the dinosaur bones and all that stuff was somehow planted there by liberal scientists to make the case against the Bible. There are people that really are against science in your party who really do question not just the science behind climate change but the science behind evolutionary fact that we were taught, you and I in our biology books. They don't accept the scientific method. They believe in belief itself and and once you hold that truth that I'm not going to be busted here on science, I'm not going to lose the argument on science some people say I don't think your party really believes in progress, in human progress.
Pence: You know it's an interesting straw-man you put up. I don't know too many Americans that actually think that way Chris. I think most Americans are serious and study science.
Matthews: I think you're afraid to say so because your conservative constituency might find that offensive.
Pence: No I've said to you Chris that I believe with all my heart that god created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. How he did that I'll ask him about some day.
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matthews will kiss the repugs ass any time he can. hey matthews pick a side. one day you are saying how f-ed up they are, the next day you cant kiss there ass fast enouph.
You don't know what to expect from him, he hits both sides as he should. Partisan pom-pom waving hacks suck. This was a great interview, Pence had to go all the way back to Teddy for reference LMAO!
a jackass.
side of the argument? Really?
Pence just kept changing the subject. He never directly answered the question about evolution. "I believe God created the heaven and the earth blah blah blah and I don't know how he did it." What a crock. Does he or does he not accept the scientific evidence for evolution?
Matthews is exactly right. There are elements in the Republican party that do not accept evolution and even science per se. But he's too easy on Pence, because I didn't see anything in that interview to substantiate Pence's assertion that he and the Republican party actually do support and accept science on evolution, global warming or much of anything else.
I'd love to have the opportunity to nail idiot Republicans like Pence to the wall. Speaking as a professional evolutionary biologist, it would be easy to force him into a corner he couldn't get out of.
i agree...Chris Matthews shouldn't even try to be polite to people like Pence. The most frustrating thing about politicians like Pence is that he KNOWS evolution is right, refuses to admit it, and what's worse is he then champions something totally opposite of it that does major damage to our society/knowledge.
Pence doesn't have a choice, our electoral system is broken and he is at the mercy of his base in the primaries and intractable partisanship in the general. Let's assume he is a reasonable individual and would otherwise take a sensible view on science and could be negotiated with on matters of health care and the budget. He would either lose a primary challenge, or lose the extreme portion of his base in the general with little hope of making up that ground because of the partisan advantage the democrats currently enjoy. So his choice is to be vacillating, hypocritical, and employed or sensible, honorable, and unemployed.
If you ask me, the system that leads to this problem is what needs the most change.
Those people up on the Hill are far more concerned with staying in power than doing the right thing. They choose to pander to factions not out of belief but expediency.
I agree with you, but can you say you are any different? Have you ever done something at your job that you thought was wrong, not illegal or morally reprehensible, but just a bad way of doing things because it was more expedient than fighting to do it a better way?
We really need to stop making being a representative in government a full time job. I am not sure how to do this, but if we stop making these people's well being dependent on their ability to maintain office they might actually make the right decisions more often than not.
but then again, his job has a tremendous impact on people's lives and influences the policy of our nation. does your job do that?
The GOP brand has been dragged in the dirt. All common sense republicans should make a new right wing party! perhaps we can start moving to a multi party system!
"I believe God created the heaven and the earth blah blah blah and I don't know how..."
Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
Evolutionary theory only addresses the HOW. Who or What is left to the churches, and that is where is should stay, until they have provable, verifiable facts to support their belief in a God.
that created everything! The FSM reached down an invisible pasta appendage, (due to its noodly goodness), and created everything! (Its just as logical as Hairy Thunderer old dood on a sky throne!) Prove me wrong matey!! Raaamen!! Arrrrr
i propose that we change it to the giant hairy butt cheek.
all hail the giant hairy butt cheek, ruler of earth and space!
needs to kick it's own ass for allowing dipshits like this into office.
teabaggers? Have you seen the Palin rallys? the lights are out upstairs. blinded by angry racism and led by demogogues, these proto-fascists are NOT bright enough to light a candle to find their way out of the dark.
Science = Bad
Dark = Good
... in the discussion, welcome.
If you're just going to type nonsense as an excuse to spam a link, the door is over there.
You're worse than a troll.
Mr Pence. He's keeping a special warm place for you and your party pals who screwed this country sideways.
With people like Mick Spence around, I'm beginning to wonder about evolution, too.
is the material manifestation of evolution theory.
It is my personal belief that if you do not believe and understand evolution, the process will select you out.
Survival of the fittest is a loaded phrase, as 'fittest' can refer to a complex array of survival skills. As society evolves, so do the survival requirements.
not ALL members of a species evolve. some do not. also, eveolution is not always for the better. traits may emerge which are detrimental to members of a species. In the case of repuglyKKKans, evolution moves backward and negative traits are surfacing which will doom them as a species.
not ALL members of a species evolve
True.
Geographical influences certainly play a role.
'Backward' is a problematic term when referring to evolution. To claim something is evolving backward or forward is applying the stamp of bias, as in it may appear backward or forward to one's interests.
... a factor in survival, but it is not the only one.
An example (I think it was in A User's Guide to the Brain by John J. Ratey) is the dilemma of two brothers who are walking near a river. One falls in, and despite being able to swim, is overmatched by the current; the other, not knowing how to swim, is confronted with the choice of diving in to save his brother, or not.
Risking his life to save his brother's is the genetically smart choice, as it preserves the broadest genetic diversity (i.e., both men may go on to father children); self-preservation, while seeming to be 'common sense' and of personal value, reduces the gene pool significantly.
"Idiocracy!!"
Great job Pence... the Repugs have reached rock bottom and now they're starting to dig.
Maybe they'll unearth a couple of dinosaur bones along the way.
..in framing this issue. A superb job really.
That is a refreshingly blunt assessment of the so-called faith-based point of view. One of the weapons they use in the 'argument' between science and faith is, "There is no argument. We're just right." How do you come out ahead with someone who accepts neither evidence nor logic?
As one wag had it, faith is like a cork stuck firmly into the bunghole of the mind; its purpose to preserve the purity of the vacuum within.
I'd love to find out the Republican "faith-based" view on so many things. This one on science is great.
Then immigration:
Then almost everything they say:
Then torture:
That said, the Libertarian-style "Fair Tax" Republicans have us liberals on taxes:
I applaud your spirit, but you have to know you'd get nowhere with that. Folks of his ilk love to point out that the New Covenant superseded the Old Testament, so none of the laws in there apply to Christians.
Until, of course, they want to bash homosexuality, and then it's right back into Leviticus for another round of moral cherrypicking.
I forgot that Leviticus is to be used only for smear-the-queer.
... that an evangelical once tried to push was that there was a difference between 'ceremonial' law (the bits about how to offer up sacrifice to the Lord) and 'moral' law (the bits about not laying with men as one would with a woman).
Which still begs the question, which part does the 'not keeping company with your wife when she is menstruating' fall under?
.
Ladies and gentlemen we have our third party!
Bottom line, he's either dumb as hell or he's chicken shit. If he doesn't believe in evolution he's uneducated. If he's educated and does believe in evolution but is afraid to say so because his party will turn against him, then he is a fake.
it's about which point of view he believes will put the most $$ in his pocket.
Pence's uttering and stuttering reponse to a simple question concerning evolution is another example of how the Republicans placate to the lowest common denominator of their party. An ignorant vote is a vote...right Pence?
The jury is still out on the flat earth.
Why just last night I saw the sun drop off the edge of the earth, and it hasn't come back yet.
It rose again here.
Thank God!
Rejoice!
amen!
Perhaps God makes a new sun every day. We better make sure and keep him appeased!
... is a mechanism, and certainly one that an all-knowing, all-powerful deity could implement. Lifeforms that are capable of adapting to a changing environment are pretty amazing.
What evangelicals have issue with is the 'inerrant truth' of the Bible; if God made man out of goop he scooped off the river bank, well, that's that. There is no evolution, and apparently no intellectual curiousity, either. That there's the philosophical gotcha of having tasted of the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil doesn't mean God wants us to flourish in complete and total ignorance.
The strange thing is, of course, is that evangelicals will quickly dispute other creation myths as being wrong, dispute scientific theory supported by fact and experimentation ... but stubbornly cling to 'invisible being made it all out of nothing.'
Nothing is the reification of the absence of something.
..is how they insist that the universe MUST have had a creator - it just couldn't exist otherwise. But somehow the argument doesn't hold when they're asked who or what created God. As I said above, they accept neither evidence nor logic.
then there's the whole Adam and Eve thing and how those two, white people based on what I was told, created this whole world of people that are all different colors.
these people want no relationship with darker humans. they hate the very possibility of being related to darker people's from around the world. the true basis for the hatred of evolution is racism. that's the truth. all other arguments were developed to create coded ways to say:
their very own Jesus of Nazareth was a 'dark-skinned' kind of guy - being a semitic Jew - he surely didn't look like the 'portraits of Jesus which hang many churches and linger in the minds of the faithful. He was not a blue-eyed, white guy with long, dirty blond hair (like Jeffrey Hunter in the movies). He was a man of a different color.
Ah, you're thinking of a different Jesus; the one who helped the sick and needy, and preached tolerance and reconciliation and striving to better oneself.
... grew up in San Antonio and Galveston. One of her friends in school was a black girl named Dolly.
Someone made the point one evening at a church function that Jesus was white. Dolly pointed at the stained-glass window portraying Christ and said, 'What color is he now?'
is this not shame to have to discuss(??) is 21st century and that too in Western country that
"Do you believe in Science ?"
"Should Science be thought in Schools ?"
what is next ?
pence is an a**hole.
however.
to the C&L tekkies.
this site has become very difficult to navegate, and not because of menus and options but because of the too, way too many posts you choose to carry on each page.
my coputer is fairly updated, my connection is your average internet pluggin.
still, it takes a long time before I can scroll up and down without having the whole thing freezing for minutes on end.
Can you post fewers posts on the same page, maybe?
keep the good work ie everything else.
Translation: The "facts" in the Bible should be given equal consideration as the facts in the science book.
Fact, Mike Pence knows that he needs the knuckle-dragger vote for re-election.
It is a translation of written testimony, purported to be from historical figures, but without any proof of provenance. These contradictory records were later cobbled together into the Bible by committee.
Facts, under the scientific method, are established to be testable (I drop a hammer, it falls), repeatable (I drop another hammer, it falls), and independently verifiable (you drop several hammers, they fall). This supports principles of the physical world that are beyond question and enable us to create things like automobiles, jet airplanes, space shuttles, and computers, as well as diagnose illnesses and formulate medicines.
The Bible does none of this.
Thank you for clarifying. I intended the quotations around the word "facts" to illustrate that Mike Pence has no understanding of this.
...or, more likely he does understand this but is playing ignorant in order to represent his base.
... and fairy tales and stories. It is not inerrant, and it is not indispensable. It contains some lovely writing, but so does Shakespeare and Buddhist and Hindu texts.
All created by man -- not a putative God.
"Science is an exploration of demonstrable facts. Isn't it? I think in our schools we should teach all of the facts about all of these controversial areas and let our students, let our children and our children's children decide based upon the facts."
So does he think that schools aren't teaching all the facts about evolution or gravity or ionic bonds?
Does he mean, by saying that we should let children decide, that teachers shouldn't give grades in classes because the children can decide on their own what's true?
Is he really this stupid or is he just parroting party lines that don't have any actual meaning?
KIds, don't let your teachers tell you what's right and what's wrong!
The only two books a man needs is the bible and a farmer's almanac.
Guns & Ammo.
Ya, Let them decide what exactly?
Chris, ask this guy what the children are deciding?
if God created the earth and animals in six days...on what day did he create Mike Pence, and couldn't he have taken that day off too.
With apologies to the Spinal Tap writers
After creating all things God was famished and ate a huge meal. On the 8th day when He arose from a long slumber God went to the restroom and took a huge dump. That was the day Mike Spence was created.
The holy wiping of His divine excrement was the day right-wing media and pundits like Limbaugh, Severin and Hannity were created.
... inspired, but all entirely wrong.
The likes of Pence, Hannity, Severin and others were created when the Tower of Babel was built, and God caused the workers to be confused and speak in foreign tongues.
according to the Wiki, after law school, Mike Pence was also a talk radio guy, brodacasting from......wait for it....Rushville, IN!!!!
You can take a boy out of Rushville, but you can't dislodge his head from Rush's *ss.
Not only does Pence fail to understand science, he doesn't know what schools are for.
The local University has been having a series of lectures "The Science of Evolution, Life, Earth, Universe" to combat this nonsense Pence and the Republicans are stuck with. We're being treated to lectures by Dr. Norman Ellstrand... Professor of Genetics and founder of the Biotechnology Impacts Center, Dr. Marlene Zuck... Professor of Biology, Dr. David Reznick...Professor of Biology, Dr. Nigel Hughes... Professor of Geology, and Dr. Barham Mobasher..Professor of Physics and Astronomy. It's very encouraging that the lectures which are open to the public have been very well attended to the point of being SRO and show a great diversity of ages among the attendees.
In his closing monologue I thought Bill Maher made a good argument when he said those who don't believe in evolution have to pray for a swine flu cure rather then take Tamiflu or an anti-biotic as that virus, and others like it, are so dangerous because they EVOLVED, along Darwinian lines, much like we probably did as we're cell-based organisms as well. I thought this was a good way to frame the argument to a current news story.
As if God is angry about people believing in evolution.
"If I say I believe in evolution, I'm going straight to hell."
Good grief, almighty.
If God is offended so easily, maybe He needs a few Godly Anger Management courses.
to fit their circumstances. If you need something messy done you call on the childish God of the new testament, if you want to adopt say, that bullshit Gospel of Prosperity then you call on your more malleable New Testment god. They just choose whatever will work for them to justify whatever it is they would like to do.
..is a perfect example of EVOLUTION! Survival and adaptation to one's environment; in a changing environment, you have to adapt or die. RIP GOP!
And there we have evolution in a nutshell: adapt or die off. It's that simple. We all change during our lifetime. I know I'm completely different as a 64 year old woman than I was as a 4year old or 14 or 24 or 34 etc.
Although I loathe the GOP ideology and its hijacking by religious ideologues, neither of these individuals understand science or evolution. First, science -- better, the scientific method -- is a cognitive trait specific to primates that allows for the construction, by means of falsifiable hypotheses, of a standard model -- a.k.a., theory -- in a discipline (e.g., physics) that describes, explains and PREDICTS phenomena (particles, interactions) typically via the language of mathematics. Evolution by natural selection (a.k.a., Darwinism) is the most powerful description, explanation (and predictor) for the existence of life on this planet and beyond dispute although it may well be modified in the future as a theory in any discipline is self-correcting. The link between evolution by natural selection and the events of the last 10,000 years (farming, the domestication of animals and everything else since then) has no relationship whatsoever, In the standard model in biology, species evolve at the individual, not group, level as a result of random mutations and reproduction that FOR NO REASON allow offspring to have a slight adaptive advantage to survive/procreate over other members of the species. Such glacial changes occur over tens of thousands or millions of years.
Both Tweety and this dick Pence are a classic case of the blind leading the blind but, hey, TV ain't for nuthin' but a corporate and political propaganda tool so did you expect a discussion between Stephen Gould (now deceased) and E.O. Wilson?
for that discussion, but they would be too smart and it wouldn't be commercially viable.
... a hard-core kneeling and genuflecting Catholic along the lines of Antonin "The Fixer" Scalia?
Scalia is a fasicst (read "corporatist lap-dog/anti-democratic) and, if Tweety is indeed a Catholic, then his mind-set is most assuredly set up for exclusivity, the declared truth and a heavy pencant for self-loathing. There ain't much difference between the two ideologies.
Our congress starts everyday with a prayer;god is on our money; every president republican or democrat finishes their speeches with god bless america. This crap is everywhere and isn't going to quit anytime soon and probably never. It's gives me hope to hear someone confront this ignorance for a change.
Why should God bless America? What makes it so special that He should bless it over other countries?
internally, over 50,000,000 natives killed by war, disease and forced migration
internally, over 70,000,000 people brought from africa, 50% lost in transit, untold(and often denied) millions killed for attempting to escape, learning to read, looking a white man in the eye, looking in the direction of a white woman, speaking to any white person, entering a store from the front, walking while black, riding in a wagon while black, walking alone while black.
hiroshima - 800,000+
nagasaki - 500,000+
vietnam - over 1,000,000
Iraq - over 1,500,000.
Damn, this country can sure kill people. We've even killed our own over the right to kill and enslave people.
On nation, under a murderous god.
That's pretty much our history in distilled form. Oh, there's been good stuff along the way, too, but the overriding theme has always been expansion and extirpation.
That's what Jeremiah Wright said in that famous sermon that got everybody all fired up.
You either love your country by facing its wrongs and trying to correct them
or
You say you love your country and ignore all its wrongs.
Yeah, but there's no mention of 'Jesus Christ' anywhere, which is the specific strain of religion these particular people all align themselves with. The US stuff that has the word 'god' in it, including the prayers said, are probably from the masonic ideal of 'nature's god' which is the concept most of the original founders of this country were down with. Not a Christian/Jesus god, those people just twisted stuff around and claimed a monopoly on deities. In it's non-influenced state that word 'god' can mean the christian/jesus god, the monotheistic principle that is the jewish 'god', the allah 'god' of the muslims, etc. i think it works better as originally intended..
saddle up his t-rex.
Pence is absolutely correct (and smart) when he says, " I think in our schools we should teach all of the facts about all of these controversial areas...". It's just a shame that Tweety couldn't follow up with questions regarding non-evolution 'facts' that Pence thinks should be taught in our schools.
It's always amazing to me that these wingnuts accept all of the societal benefits afforded by science (medicine, technology, etc...), but discount the veracity of the same scientific method when it pokes holes in their faith/beliefs.
and then they can discuss how god made the banana to fit man's hand (however, some may find this an objectionable topic)
The banana also fits in the vagina. Coincidence?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Fsfou190s
I would bet that God also designed it to fit up his ass to. Just sayin'.
When you really think about it, there are a lot of places you can stick that banana.
Thank you Jesus. Thank you Lord.
Pence knows that if schools were to teach the science supporting and denying something like say, oh, global warming... it would be probably the whole school year, every day of the week, learning about science supporting its existence...
And then a few minutes before the end of last day of the year, the teacher would direct everybody to scream and start throwing stuff across the room, and that would be the sum total of the "science" supporting the denial of it.
fucking religion
While the first national parks were indeed established during Republican administrations, the first 5 were already established before Roosevelt became President.
ignorance
for intellectual enhancement.
I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them.
with all of the ritual and repetition and neurotic thinking, i firmly believe that OCD and religion are somehow intertwined
many of the people that I know that suddenly decided that they needed religion traded one obsession for another: blow for religion; gambling for religion; shopping for religion; food for religion; etc.
"I do believe in spooks! I do believe in spooks! I do! I do! I do!"
We athiestic Leftist need to ridicule and humiliate them every chance we get.
I just don't want anyone's religious views foisted upon mine.
Take your bullshit generalizations back to the criminally ignorants at red state, troll.
and help them become rational.
Sounds good to me!
We were all born atheists and then the brainwashing begins.
"Pence: No I've said to you Chris that I believe with all my heart that god created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them. How he did that I'll ask him about some day."
Uh, sounds like Mr. Pence didn't read the final travel itinerary, I think he's got his last stop switched around. It's okay he'll plenty of company down there.
Denying the fact of evolution is the way Republicans confront outbreaks of the flu. If they outlaw evolution then viruses can't evolve therefore they can't infect those who have already developed an immunity to a prior version of the virus.
It's part of their health care policy.
I've been thinking that the God in the Bible is not really all that with it.
Supposedly, He's all knowing and all seeing. Yet, he misses the fact that Lucifer and a bunch of other angels are conspiring against Him. Did He know they were doing it and just allow it happen? If so, why? If he didn't know they were plotting to overthrow Him, He's not omniscient. It has to be one or the other. Why would He create angels, then allow them to rise up against Him? How could He create an angel who's so vile and evil?
How could a deity say on the one hand that He loves all his creations, then on the other hand say that if one of them gets out of line, He'll sentence him to eternal torture and torment.
Why did He put the "tree of knowledge" in the garden of Eden if he didn't want them to use it? Some kind of obedience test? That's just plain dumb.
How could anyone worship a deity that's a mass murderer many times over? When God decided that all of humanity was evil and had to die, could there really have been only one family that was "pure"?
Could every last man, woman and child in Sodom and Gomorrah have been evil? When God decided to kill them all, were there any PREGNANT women? Did God kill unborn babies? Holy cow, some anti-abortionist should bomb him.
The Bible is so full of contradictions yet, it's the "Literal Word Of God". Is God insane? Maybe, He just wants to screw with our minds. Why would He give us minds then tell us not to use them? It doesn't make sense.
I think God forgot to hire an editor when he wrote his novel.
that the writers of the Bible had an agenda? Or conflicting agendas? Or just wanted to control the masses? Just like the Republicans like to do with fear?
... it may look like a mistake, but there's a strategical reason for all of it.
Huh? Waitaminit, MICHAEL STEELE is God?
"Science is an exploration of demonstrable facts. Isn't it? I think in our schools we should teach all of the facts about all of these controversial areas and let our students, let our children and our children's children decide based upon the facts."
Nothing about creationism is a demonstrable fact. It is faith. Therefore, it should not be taught in schools.
You gotta love these science debates with the evangelical ass-kissers. Pence actually has the audacity to blame Democrats for being PARTISAN on the stem-cell issue. Did i actually hear that correctly?? You gotta love the wingnuts. He won't answer to a simple question about if he believes in arguably the greatest scientific advancement in human history for pure political reasons and at the same time argues that his opposition are ignoring science for political gain.
At this rate the Pence will come around to global warming right about the time that Indiana becomes beach-front property. Scratch that, that's giving too much credit, I mean when Illinois becomes beach-front property.
Not a fan of Chris Matthews, but he did successfully make Mike Pence look like a fool. We shouldn't be surprised that Pence refused to publicly support evolution. During the 2008 Republican presidential debate, none of the candidates would admit to supporting evolution. Pence and the rest of them are kept in line by the far right, religious fundamentalist base. These reactionaries want to bring back the "good ole days" of the 1950s, a time that wasgood for white, fundamentalist Christian, mostly southern, men. Narrow-mindedness and exclusion has driven moderates away. The GOP grows smaller and smaller. In the absence of strong leadership, modern men who would recognize science, for example, Rush Limbaugh assumes the leadership role. It's the gift that just keeps on giving to the Democrats.
Get these goddamn creationists the fuck outta public office.
God screwed Mary and thus committed adultery, making his only son a bastard. Damn those ten commandments!
... that if God does it, then it's not a crime.
/snark
Did Joseph and Mary have any sex after Jesus was born or did Mary die a virgin? Seriously does the bible say anything about this?
Maybe they can do a Cold Case episode on this.
James, Joses and Judas I believe. They're mentioned a few times in the Gospels, and St. Paul was in an ongoing argument with James starting with The Epistle to the Galatians (supposedly the earliest of all New Testament books) and still going strong in Acts of the Apostles (supposedly the latest.)
There's nothing wrong with the teachings of Jesus, IMO. (and I'm a died-in-the-wool atheist) Jesus made no claims whatsoever to being either the Messiah or the Son of God. All that was grafted on over a generation after Jesus' death, by Saul of Tarsus.
Seriously, there is nothing that so undermines the Bible's supposed authority than giving it a good thorough read. It is quite literally unbelievable.
Thanks for the info.
I should know that. I have a degree in English but skipped most of the religious stuff. Which is funny because most of early English literature is about religion, and if you don't know your bible, you have no business studying the history of English literature (so sayeth one of my professors).
..it's also true that Christianity has itself ignored the bible when it was convenient to them amassing power. Their denial that Jesus had any siblings for a couple thousand years in direct contradiction to the text is a prime example.
Mary had a number children
In Mike Pence's World survival of the fittest is dependant upon complete acceptance of the literal meaning of what some itinerent, mystical sheepherders carved into stone some 2,000 to 3,000 years ago. Is it any wonder Mike's World is also shrinking? It's kind of ironic that the Republicans may be a perfect example of a species whose demise was caused by their failure to adapt.
it depends on the latest rantings of the most recently promoted demogogue, be it swaggert, falwell, haggart or the fucking nazi pope.
I was nearly thrown in jail for making this statement at a public nativity seen last Christmas. they told police I was yelling obcenities
Evangelicals are the bullies and hypocrites who believe the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old despite it being 4,500,000,000 years old. The "rationalization" that the word "day" may not mean 24 hours is an admission that the bible IS NOT a literal document, but one that is literally dependent on the reader's subjective/biased interpretation rather than a verbatim dissemination of "god's words" or his intentions.
It's always amazed me that fundamentalists who claim to base their values on the words in a book pick and choose which words ARE and ARE NOT to be interpreted literally and or factually.
Why should a book that has been translated numerous times from numerous languages by numerous fallible human beings over a period of more than 2,000 years be necessary as proof of and or a justification for one's moral values? When faith itself is completely ethereal, why do so many people base their religious values on the written word?
The majority of people who place so much emphasis on a bible DO NOT practice ALL the values in that bible nor do they project the grace and tolerance of an enlightened believer. Where in any interpretation of any bible does it suggest that god wants people to use his words as a political weapon or litmus test?
The “faux Christians" who do that aren't just misinterpreting words; they are perverting the spirit and intent of religion into a political/cultural sword borne of sacrilege and evil.
Heh! Hope they have long distance phone cards in hell
each connection costs $6.66...
I would have done a lot better in math if they had let me use "faith-based" methods.
For example: X+4 = Y, therefore Y-4 = X would simply become X = 4 and Y= 6 and I wouldn't have to show my work. When asked, I would simply say that this is what God told me the answer should be.
what they do.
A good point. Do you "believe in" something assumes that personal choice influences or defines the reality. Some things are axiomatic, therefore choice and belief does not play a part.
He mentioned the fact that Teddy created the National Parks system but failed to mention that the Bush Crime Family tried every way they could to destroy that same thing. How did he vote on Bush's attempts to privatize the logging in National Parks, make hunting available in National Parks, and making drilling within a dangerous zone of the Colorado River which provides water to Las Vegas, Phoenix, to mention a few. How many good republicans stood by Teddy's principles when Dubya was at work?
See: http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/comment/permalink/1122327
Trying to get a straight answer from a Republican is definitely pissing into the wind , what a sorry pathetic joke these people are . Is it any wonder they're losing ? Even the yo-yo's who voted Bush 2 x are ditching them .
The Department of Education seriously needs to check the state of higher education in Indiana, because if Mike Pence is the best they've got, they're in big trouble.
Obviously a product of the same time of higher education that produced George Bush. "Hand him a diploma, he's too thick to cram any more into that head".
Simply incredible.
Believe this religion and be saved or you'll go to hell for all eternity ! If that doesn't have man written all over it I don't know what does . Emotional black mail created by man not by God , believe this and only this or you will suffer eternal hell ! It's sick if you think about it .
"Well Chris, I believe that an imaginary man waved his hands and created everything we see. This man we call our God is the great God that loves us all, sees and hears us all and we will join him when we die in a spectacular place called heaven with flying spirits we call angels,... unless we break the laws he's made for us, then we will be placed in a hot suffering place for eternity. Oh,... yes, I guess I believe in the goofy scientific explaination too, but not without the God story."
Doesn't this sound as crazy as strapping a bomb on to yourself so you will become a martyr and vigins will be given to you when you join the after life... or that just me?
...I don't want arguing my case for me.
"Thank you for showing your honesty...."
What honesty did Pence show -- he was a total weasel, trying to avoid answering any question with a straightforward answer, instead relying on evasion, misdirection, and dismissal of questions as not valid.
Matthews complete lack of credibility means he never "destroys" anyone (or almost never), but at best raises questions about someone who is an easy target. Because Matthews' mind is just a sloppy garbage dump he finds it almost impossible to carry any argument to a clear end.
One thing I've noticed lately about C&L contributors is the way they greatly overstate the triumphs of people on the left. Usually, when I read about the latest knockout of a Winger by a lefty, I find instead a conversation, argument, or discussion whose outcome is very much in the eye of the beholder.
... Pence's views on Creation as Science something that is subjective opinion, or is it debunked by objective fact?
If this dude really thinks that "god created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that's in them," then he also denies astronomy, astrophysics, geology, chemistry, biology, math, and pretty much all the other hard sciences, because they all support each other.
What a horrible waste of time and resources these people represent. We just don't have the time and money to indulge their primitive fantasies anymore.
...and I believe that God created life as we know it through evolution. See how easy that was? I even said it in one sentence!!
Also, the scientific method isn't about proving facts and truths. The scientific method is about DISPROVING hypotheses. Until you can disprove that global warming is occuring with empirical methods, then you can't take it off the table.
... of the global warming denial crowd.
Theory: Emissions caused by manmade technologies/activity are increasing carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere.
Proof: CO2 levels are rising.
Deniers: Well, there were changes in global temperature before, and there weren't any SUV's THEN, so they can't be the problem now!
Question: Then where is the extra CO2 coming from? It's not enough to say 'it's not SUV's' - alternate sources such as volcanoes, plants, etc. would have to be considered and discounted.
How frothing insane. Demonstrable fact isn't something that someone believes in or doesn't believe in, it's something that one accepts or delusionally denies. The fact of evolution is not something that Scientists debate, it's as obvious as gravitation.
Insane god damned cultists.
... subjective validation (I believe in God!) is not considered to be proof (i.e., God exists).
It's amazing that this guy was trying to make the case that Republicans are supportive of the scientific method and then on the 3 issues that were mentioned, he failed at all three!
Honestly, when has anybody ever met a truthful Reslug?
I can't say that I have ever met a Republican who isn't willing to out right Lie to make thier point.
pence should really stop eating
all the sh*t he leaves behind him
as he lies, lies and LIES.
i bet he believes in de-evolution,
because he must look in the mirrow
frequently and wonder, "where is that
rock i crawled out of."
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