Hardball: Kit Bond Defends Torture But Doesn't Want to Call It Torture
By Heather Friday Jan 23, 2009 7:30pm
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Kit Bond making one of the most convoluted arguments I've ever heard about why Gitmo should stay open and what defines torture. He resorts to the latest GOP talking point that if we allow the prisoners at Gitmo to be brought to US prisons we should all be very afraid that they're going to escape and kill us all. Way to keep that fear mongering up Sen. Bond. He also claims that anyone wanting to prosecute the Bush administration for war crimes is suffering from the "ultimate in Bush derangement syndrome".
This man makes me really, really ashamed to have to have him representing my state and really, really grateful he's not running for reelection.
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Mr Bond, a crime is a crime, torture is a crime. CIA Agents that tortured knew it was illegal and knew they were breaking all laws of human decency. They should go to jail, and you Sir, should be there with them for aiding and abetting a crime.
"Bush derangement syndrome" IS NOT a crime, torture IS a crime. So, you can call me names, and we will prosecute the Bush administration and treat them much more humanely than they treated people they arrested. That's how a functioning democracy works... or are you a socialist, Mr. Bond?
Now, why should we do that? We know it wasn't torture, from GW's own mouth, so anything done to GW's prisoners is lawful treatment that cannot be called torture or inhumane if used against the perpetrators, doncha' think?
We've all heard of individuals who have arrogant and uncaring attitudes about life's devastations until they experience those devastations themselves. It seems to be the only way some people can be brought into community with the rest of us. I'm sure the same is true about torture.
PS. That was just a fantasy of mine, and you are, of course, correct that we'd treat those war criminals much more humanely than they treated people they arrested.
Thought you were the U. S. Senator from Mississippa, not Missoura. You're so smart! You know Obama lived for years in Illinoise. Hate to hear you're retiring in 2010. Who'll be the dumbest senator after you leave? They've got some mighty big shoes to fill.
I'd be more worried about these "terrorists" escaping. Now? Not so much.
-AF
at least he's retiring Heather
too bad he'll likely be replaced by the likes of a Blunt
Maybe we get Robin Carnahan instead.
I sure hope Robin gets it. I couldn't take another blunt anytime. :<(
Bond and others have chosen an illogic that can only be described as "deranged"... who is going to call them on it? Not Harry Reid. why when the peaceful political means are at hand, would any Patriot shrink from engaging Bond in "a fierce political fight"
protect and defend, baby... foreign and domestic...
to coin a phrase, "bring him on..."
At this point these guys must be drooling, disoriented and hardly able to stand let alone discern their surroundings in a rational manner. Constant isolation in cages with a bag over your head in a foreign environment will to that to ya. Let alone torture.
Aren't around 30 of them being force fed through feeding tubes because they want to give up and die?
If they escaped some kind of maximum security prison in the U.S., where would they go?
I can just picture some emaciated guy in chains with most of his faculties missing running around speaking Arabic in a jumpsuit not being conspicuous.
Give me a freakin' break.
Congratulations! The most accurate and succinct comment yet. Anyone who buys into the "they'll escape and kill us in our beds" meme should themselves be locked up in a mental facility.
Or a bathroom stall next to Larry Craig. HEH
the Naysayers among us. They are just as disruptive towards progress. Who did Obama just put in charge with overseeing intelligence gathering? Who was the active critic in the Bush admin
against FISA?
Kudos to those among us that have said we need to see how the administration develops. I said there has never, ever been a community organizer heading this country. Power to the community!
with a senator like this????? Moved back to Clayton, Missouri a couple of years ago from Chicago for personal reasons, but sure do miss the much more liberal Chicago!
At least Bond is retiring.
you will find the opposite thinkers. That is the silver lining.
I moved to mo. years ago(worst mistake of my life) and regretted the move immediately.
now I'll die here and the nighemare will be over, maybe soon.
Gettin' older and sicker.
I would think you're not looking very hard. I live in Chesterfield, for God's sake, and there are even liberal Dems out here. Clayton is a much more liberal area.
I am more afraid of people like him than any poor wretch that has been de-humanized by torture.
What's to be done with the prisoners? They must all be hospitalized and made as well again in mind and body. Many are insane from the torture. Many are in terrible physical condition. Very few are dangerous, maybe none.
They can never be given their lives back as before they were thrown into this hellhole (and remember, there are other hellholes, but all reparations that can be given to them and their families must be given.
The U.N. aid agencies, the International Red Cross, and others must be asked to help.
And those who can be repatriated to their countries without the threat of arrest and more torture should be given that choice.
These are people.
Then, close the whole damned base and give the land back to Cuba as partial reparation for what we have done to them.
"Then, close the whole damned base and give the land back to Cuba as partial reparation for what we have done to them."
What have we done to Cuba?
Economic Embargo of 50 years perhaps?
Bay of pigs?
Soooo...when the Nazis were prosecuted for war crimes it was a "derangement syndrome"?
What the fuck!
Please tell me someone who is a legal combatant?
Us?
? A plural response?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0820/p09s02-coo...
I should have been clearer...Kit Bond considers US (military, Blackwater, KBR, Dynacorp, et al) legal combatants.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there's a distinction between "lawful" and "unlawful" combatants. Lawful combatants are soldiers, clearly identified as such and if detained are considered POWs under the Geneva Conventions. Unlawful combatants are spies and other enemies not identified and if captured, may not fall under the Conventions. The Bush administration considered all members of the Taliban and Al Qaeda to be unlawful combatants and, therefore can be interogated harshly (tortured). The trouble with an existential "war on terror", how can anyone say when a war like this will end? I guess whether they stay in Gitmo, Kansas or wherever, none of these alleged criminals will ever have their day in some kind of court.
is defined by what you "do," not by which social club you belong to.
"He also claims that anyone wanting to prosecute the Bush administration for war crimes is suffering from the "ultimate in Bush derangement syndrome".
Sorry Kit old bean.
A preemptive war waged in violation of international treaties is clearly defined as a crime of aggression.
This stuff was all hashed out at Nuremburg,and sent the remaining Nazi top brass to their deaths.Cheney,Bush,Rumsfeld,Ashcroft,Bolton and many more are indisputable war criminals and should be brought to justice.
Agent 700, with license to torture, errm, practice enhanced interrogation techniques.
Did I mention I'm also a licensed massage therapist? Here's my card.
Kit Bond lives and wants us all to live in a land that is neither free nor brave. Come to think of it that is exactly what we have been living in for eight years.
Really? That's the best Bond can come up with? "Bush Derangement Syndrome"?
Did anyone catch what he was talking about? Prosecuting Clinton for the illegal search of whom? Etta James? What the hell is he talking about?
I hope everyone watching MSNBC was as convinced as I was that the Kit Bonds of the world are lunatics.
But notice, Nancy Pelosi isn't instigating any investigations. Harry Reid isn't instituting any investigations. Diane Feinstein is cutting some deal with senate Repubes about what Holder can and cannot investigate.
Everybody and their brother knows that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Ashcroft, Mukasey, Woo, etc. are guilty of war crimes, and everyone knows that there's no one on the Democratic side who is willing to grow a pair and prosecute.
If the Obama administration doesn't prosecute the chimps crew for torture you can bet that he won't be getting my vote for 4 more years! By Obama's logic ALL folks who commit felonies should go on their merry way and don't be a felon ,in the future! One thing we have to remember,in the future, is who goes along with this bullshit line of thinking should be voted out of office,the next time around!
Prosecuting bush would be a total disaster for Kit bond and George bushCo. It would be the restoration of law and order up there in Washington for the rest of US.
Its obvious this man would be passionately arguing the opposite if that's what his party wanted. So no point in arguing why he's wrong. He has no beliefs or values other than party loyalty to the extent he needs to get re-elected or has some financial ties to his current job.
Meanwhile, the republican party withers on the vine. Stay tuned for more suicidal political maneuvers and blunders.
So much discussion about torture being ok but let's see what happen when the Bush Policy is done to Americans. The UN can take notice no to charge a country who kidnaps, tortured, holds Americans without charges for ever. Sounds good to do for others but let's see what is said when it happens to us.
Why is it spelled "Missouri" if it's pronounced "Missura"? If I had to live there and this clown was my senator I'd pronounce it "Misery".
Some of us do call it that. The State of Misery as long as we've got clowns like Bond and the Blunts around. And unless you live in rural "Missura" it's Missouri.
Heather I live in Missouri too but I have to admit I say Missourah. All I know is they can send them to the Fed prison here, They have never had an escape that I know of and we were home to Gotti and Flynt for a while and nobody here ever really thought about them "getting loose". I'm sure KSM would think he was in the country somewhere. LOL I mean after all the Birdman of Alcatraz died here and he was a sick sob. So go ahead Bond send them here we could use the money.
Please God let Robin Carnahan run for Bond's seat so we can have 2 Dem senators like the old days.
to dumb people.
pronounce it correctly...MissourEEEEE. This rest of our fabulous state call it Missourah. You know, as in spaghettah....and all other words ending in i. It's a big deal in this state.
Just another "national security" redstate Republican who never served in the military. How is it that a bunch of right wing chickenhawks who never picked up a rifle to defend this country became such experts on national security?
Boeing contracts lining his pockets???
Kittens just soiled himself thinking about those tara-ists who are going to escape and kill us all! This bedwetter Republican better put on an extra Depends diaper tonight lest he have some sheets to change in the morning.
This man is insane. On the one hand, he wants to call all of those at Gitmo 'hardened terrorists', and then he claims they all deserve a hearing to determine whether they are being held with cause. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't seem to resonate with this bastard.
He further wants to equate holding these prisoners with the holding of combatants during wars. How long did WW2 last? That was reasonable back then, because there was a definite end-game scenario. When the German government was overthrown, the war was over. But Mr. Bond here doesn't seem to have a problem with holding these people for 100 years or better, since that is what the previous administration told us we could expect in terms of the length of this 'war on terror' -- a war with no clear end-game scenario.
So Bond says "Now, if you don‘t bring them back to the United States,
if you release them, we know already that more than 60 of the people
who have been released have been killing our troops, our Americans
and civilians on the battlefield".
Why do so many people completely miss this comment??
It is a lie and has been proven to be a lie by MARK DENBEAUX, DIRECTOR,
SETON HALL LAW SCHOOL CENTER FOR POLICY AND RESEARCH
DENEBEAUX - The government has given its 43rd attempt to describe the
number of people who have left Guantanamo and returned to the battlefield.
Forty-one times they have done it orally as they have this last time.
And their numbers have changed from 20 to 12 to seven to more than five
to two to a couple to a few - 25, 29, 12 to 24.
Every time, the number has been different. In fact, every time they give
a number, they don‘t identify a date, a place, a time, a name or an
incident to support their claim."
DON'T let them continue to lie like this - pay attention and then call them on it!
In 1972, I voted for this man, in his first statewide vote. I hereby apologize to the world for any thing I may have had to do with his subsequent career.
as well you should. The only Republican I ever voted for in Missouri was Danforth. And a few of the things he did made me think about that one twice. However, a smarmy drunk like Bond never tempted me once.
The wingnuts are sticking to their blank shooting guns. Good. Lose more seats in 2010, dipshits. Still, it's a good idea to put them in Alcatraz. It'll bring jobs to California, and they sure the hell won't escape.
even though he said it sarcastically. There's also Pelican Bay Prison just north of me (North Coast of California). I think we'd be happy to have them here. We could use the jobs.
America produces some of the most warped and brutal killers in the world. The terrorists might actually get slain while in their new domestic prison.
what a moron !! as if for any remote reason any "enemy combatant" would actually be set free from a federal prison in the U.S. they would decide to set up shop in Missouri or Ohio or California? This is a poster-child example of the idiocy that occurs everyday on CAPITOL HILL...
I expect that between now and the 2010 elections we will see similar nonsense from all the Republicans who have decided not to run again.
I lived in Missouri when Bond was governor and through most of his time in the Senate. The only good thing I have to say about him is that he's not John Ashcroft.
so he's soo afraid of so called terrorist even tho we dont know cause they havent been put on trial..escaping from our prisons with all there guns?? locked and loaded?? ready to shoot anything that comes near them?? sounds like big brave tough guys to me....not and there not scared of all the murderes rapist and child molesters in those prisons escapeing?? there the ones that beg on bended knee to have these prisons built in there back yard for the federal funds they provide the state and county...what a bunch of crap this man spews
P.S what do you think these so called patriotic rethugs would be saying if a democratic president and congress had done the exact same thing theyb would be screamin not for trial and prosecution but to hang'em high for what they have done to this country
What is it with Republicans and their torture lust?? These people have completely lost their legal and moral compass. If another country's leadership had done what the Bush crime family did, these same group of Republicans would be demanding justice.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like.....well you know the rest. This guy is bats**t crazy. Call it enhanced interrogation or whatever you want, it's still torture. As far as the boogeyman syndrome he's trying to play out. Worse case scenario fear mongering only works on those with almost zero ability to think logically (most repugs). I would be more worried about torturing someone who really hasn't done anything wrong, then when he does go free he actually does become a terrorist.
Why is it that as soon as one of these douche bags sense a threat to Boy George, they raise the specter of Bill Clinton? Are they ever going to let go of him as the designated punching bag? "We didn't go back and prosecute uh, Bill Clinton for his uh, uh, uh wiretapping(?)"
To quote Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon...."
These right-wingers are like "Stepford" people. Even after being bitch-slapped by Bush and Cheney for 8 years, they still want to defend those clowns. Most of them didn't serve in the military, yet won't listen the military intelligence, who tell them that torture doesn't work.
I watched this interview. He was dick. He attacked San Fran and forgets what they did to Clinton. Tweety looked like he was going to go off on him a couple times but held back.
I would very seriously and honestly feel safer having one of the Gitmo detainees move in next door to me then I would to have Kit Bonds move in next door. The detainee would only attack someone for a reason while Bond does it out of pure ideology.
What a great comment! You are 100% correct!
Kit Bond has always been an idiot, going all the way back to his stint as governor. At least he's a predictable idiot. It's stimulus/response, like bacteria. I can't tell you how happy I'll be to see him out of office. But then, if he's out of office, it raises the possibility of me seeing him at the bars after Mizzou games hitting on 19 year old coeds again. Oh, the horror. At least the next senator from my fair state won't be Matt Blunt. Not if we're smart. (Note to self: donate some $$$ to Robin Carnahan).
know that Kit Bond is not always sober, for one thing. That really can affect your thinking. He's been in the bottle for many years. You should have caught his act in the 2000 election in the city of St. Louis. You would have thought that the dead had risen to vote Democratic. He screamed and carried on to the height of embarassment for Missourians. I will be so glad when 2010 comes and we are rid of this guy. He's a total jerk.
She's smart and my pick for the nomination. Good thought.
As I watched this nit-wit trying to defend torture I couldn't look away from what I perceived as one crazy old mutha fucker who needs to retire as soon as possible! I mean how do guys like this get elected in the first place? I Guess there are a lot of low info voters in this country! What was funny was the way Bond kept stumbling to explain his position. The more this idiot talked the more moronic he became! Kit, goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!
who shame America and strengthen our enemies.
Thank goodness some sane people from the "greatest generation" are still around to speak truth in person:
American WWII Interrogators speak out against torture; "I'm proud to say I never compromised my humanity"
http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?1...
So, are the people who are so willing to torture motivated by their own cowardice? Or are they planning a regime of torture that we _all_ should be afraid of?
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?...
Facebook group supporting a letter campaign to Obama in support of a special prosecutor. Tell your friends.
Once the new Attorney General and his special prosecutor get started they should make it clear that all these thugs who helped make this crime possible are subject to the laws incriminating accomplices to the same crime. I would bet their tune would change on a dime.
Bush and those who conspired with him should be charged, prosecuted, and found guilty for violating the Constitution, US and international laws. Conservatives believe that economic and social inequality, crimes against humanity, war crimes , and violating Americans civil rights is acceptable. The majority of Americans are paying the price of eight years of Bush's policies. Conservatives are unable to care, or understand that their views are the cause of massive suffering, and death. That is why they are being voted out of office.
This has to be most deranged idea I've ever heard. Prisons are full of people who were looked back on. They committed a crime and were prosecuted after the fact and ignorance of the law is no excuse even if a lawyer claims otherwise.
Murderers should be released because we need to "look Forward" and not back on their crimes against Humanity?
I think NOT!
We should require that all member of congress and the media elite subject themselves to waterboarding before they are allowed to condone and/or vote for waterboarding.
We should tell them they have to confess to eating their own feces everyday for breakfast, before we stop the waterboarding. That may show them how useful waterboarding is for getting at the "truth".
Same old tired lines, it must be for lack of originality, may we all wish them great success.
The solution is to waterboard any ignorant Reslug that says it's not torture, starting with DICK-HEAD Cheney.
.
So,
It's not TORTURE when Kit Bonds agrees that it's not TORTURE?
My gawd this man is one pathetic hypocrite. in one breath he states that waterboarding is torture and that torture should be outlawed. Then in the very next breath, he supports the authorization of torture...
My gawd Kit, which is it?
Legal or illegal?
.
The only derangement we need be concerned with is the fact that Bush himself was IN FACT deranged, needed professional help, and was surrounded by psychopaths like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, and Gonzales. The CIA acting on orders from Bush was akin to taking action on an unlawful order, and they all knew it. It is simply a fact that they were too cowardly to stand up to the bullies in the administration, so like good little lemmings, they followed their leader over the cliff. Therefore, under US law and International law, they too are culpable for their crimes against humanity. All of them need to be brought to justice, or at least tried and given their day in court. If this is not done, we will never know how heinous they actually were and that is inexcuseable! We are a country of laws ... no-one is above the law ... let the process take place and let justice be done so it can never happen again!
Upholding the Rule of Law and the US Constitution is
"ultimate in Bush derangement syndrome"
and nothing more.
Kit Bond is a perfect example of what is wrong with our Gov't.
-He really does know how most of those "detainees" became detained.
-He can only point to the severest cse of 1 or two of thousands that were collected (not captured). And all of those that were let go after their lives had been destroyed.
-Ask Kit Bond if he feels America should torture seriel killers?
Kids accused of stealing for confessions?
-The Bush Adm makes these "Detainees" sound like it is something new that we fight foes without a Gov't, standing army in signifying uniforms. People forget that many Viet Gong were not uniformed and were not classified as "Detainee" combatant".
-Did Bush torture any one that might had information on the Anthrax attacks?
-As far as not holding past presidents or their Adm to legal rule of law. Well that is insane. Bond struggle not to say Clinton was not held legally after Monica Lewensky. He stuttered for something else.
-Kit Bond thinks "only a Conservative republican President" Can hire someone in the Dept of Justice to write his own laws that magically makes them legal and Constitutional. And the next President merely can overturn it. For one, this is dictator elected rule and completely disreagards American's right to representation.
-Kit Bond eludes that anyone that disagrees with him are to be dismissed because they are "Bush haters".
Does Kit Bond think the republicans weren't hating Clinton over Lewensky?
Like Obama just told them, They need to stop being shallow greedy Ditto-Heads of Rush.
When it comes to Kit Bonds's world of prisons in America.
That it would be dangerous and a burdon on the state or prison system itself.
I recall many prisons of different states vying for the convicted "Menendez" killer brothers.
matter of fact, a warden that got the Menendez Bros made a public comment that the funds they will recieve for taking them will help the prison and the prison looks forward into have celebreties that they were sure would provide the prison with good regard and how nice it will be to make them good imates.
I am paraphrasing, but tht is pretty darn close.
Moussaui is sitting in a U.S. prison right now. I have not heard one peep of fear from any conservative due to that fact.
1, 10, 50, 100. It is not going to change the threat to Americans, if they are in a secure prison.
The Cuban government hasn't even complained about them being housed at Guantanamo, as far as i am aware. if anyone would have to be concerned about their safety, it would be the people next to where the terrorists are currently imprisoned.
Has anyone bothered to tell that senile old fool that Alkatraz is now a theme park? What's wrong with Republicans?
Funny how these Republicans claim to love the troops-
When they mistreat and torture Iraqi POWs, this puts any captured US troops at risk of being tortured..
Do the Republicans care about the troops??
Plus isn't the US supposed to set a higher example?
We can't boast about being the world's beacon of freedom, yet go around torturing people.
Someone needs to tell this asshat that the Iraqis were not behind 9/11.
If you get that asshat on the phone, I'll be the one to tell him the Iraqi's were not behind 9/11.
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