I know Susie already wrote about this segment on This Week, but I thought George Will's comments here deserved some attention of their own. It seems some things never change, like Will calling our social safety nets welfare as he did back in 2007 on this same show, which Nicole wrote about here -- George Will Wants Those Lazy Seniors Off The Dole.
He also repeated that same talking point for an article he wrote for the Cato Institute back in 2008 where along with repeating that same talking point, Will also derided Americans for not saving enough on their own and for running up their credit cards so that they would end up being dependent on programs like Social Security in the first place rather than having some money in the bank.
You know George, all of those terrible, welfare loving seniors might have been able to put more into their savings accounts and would not have needed to run up their credit cards if it weren't for the "conservative" economic policies someone's actually been paying you to push for the last god knows how many years with those wingnut welfare checks you receive every week for writing your columns and writing pieces like the one in '08 for Cato. Or if heaven forbid there had been some tighter regulations on the banks where they weren't encouraging the type of easy access to credit with interest rates that used to make loan sharks blush, maybe more Americans would not have been allowed to be irresponsible with their spending habits in the first place. But then, we all know what Republicans think about regulation and any nasty government interference with those "free markets."
This is the same man who called the benefits union members in the auto industry received "welfare" as well. I've got to wonder how many seniors, no matter what their political leanings, would appreciate Will calling their Social Security benefits welfare. Now that Republicans have decided that doubling down on defending Paul Ryan's plan to privatize Medicare is a good idea, maybe we can get them to adopt Will's talking point on Social Security as well, since they apparently believe that destroying our social safety nets is a winner for them during the next election.
AMANPOUR: So I know you're considering Pawlenty as a real viable candidate. Do you think, though, that's a bit fanciful? I mean, a lot of economists have said that 5 percent today is -- I mean, it's great, it would be great, but not really possible.
WILL: A man's reach should exceed his grasp, and that certainly does. Steady 5 percent growth probably won't happen. Also, his pledge to get federal spending down to 18 percent of GDP is very hard to do with an aging population and a welfare state that exists to transfer wealth to the elderly.
That said, he's avoiding the austerity trap. He's avoiding the green eyeshade, root canal kind of politics that Ronald Reagan avoided. Reagan said we're going to get out of this mess with growth. At this point, by the way, in the Reagan recovery, after '81-'82, the economy was growing at 7 percent.
ever got rich cashing Social Security checks.
WWFSMD?
george will can go fuck himself........
Ditto that one too .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
Jan 20, 2005:
"Social Security=Opportunity, Not A Crisis"
yes, by that fellow, George Will
here you go:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22532-2005Jan19.html
The predatory check cashing and pay day loan places that seem to inhabit every other corner in often poor communities and neighborhoods.
Beer-i.e., God's Sweet Nectar- is a magic drink that makes you smarter, stronger, and more sexy.
-S. Colbert
vote against medical socialism,
but look at this republican
presidential candidate's family?
http://minnesotaindependent.com/57982/michele...
nice catch minnesota.
even those who do not actually NEED the checks in their old age will probably never recoup what they have contributed over a lifetime. SS enriches NOBODY, and was never meant to do so. It is there to provide a small measure of dignity and financial security to those who would otherwise spend their final years on this earth in desperate poverty. George will would be ashamed of himself, if he had any shame.
WWFSMD?
So, what is your point, George? What is wrong about transferring (some) wealth to the elderly? Is it not what a civilized society is supposed to do, take care of its elderly, its poor, its sick and disabled? In fact pimps for the rich like George refuses to accept that the rich becomes rich because society invested in itself, in its infrastructure, in its labor force (with promises of help when they become old and disabled), education, research, culture, etc. If selfish thugs like George would pay more in taxes, more of those funds could be invested for the commons we all share, and we would be truly a better society. Does the Bible tell you that greed will be rewarded, that the poor and the elderly should be denounced and marginalized? People like George are sociopaths, pure and simple. Progressives should demand more taxes from the rich and more spending on social sectors and expose hypocrites like George for what they are: selfish pigs.
MSiddique
Well said. We all share in our society's success and failure despite our obsession with believing in the Rambo myth.
Less Rambo, more Rand.
You point to a clear division in thinking. It's interesting that so many seem to think the purpose of life is and should be the acquiring of resources. Many can imagine of no other way to live. Sadly there is nearly no way around it with the system we are in.
Ah, but things have changed before and will again. It's sad that we will have to let them take it all first.
Free/sustainable energy would be the first big step toward breaking the bonds of our corporate masters. We are closer than many would imagine.
Don't worry about these guys, evolution will take care of them.
It's good news for public debate.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
George Will, should take off his toupee and give his skull a good airing out! He doesn't much know life of the elderly citizen before Social Security came into place. Not everyone has the luck and good health of a steady, soft, easy, good pay position well into their old age. Social Security recipients paid into the fund all their working
years, therefore it's an entitlement, not a hand-out! Social Security checks is not the same as Welfare checks.
There are people that were not able to save for there old age, therefore SS is compulsory savings. Is that bad? Cut out the SS programs, and we go back to the bleak dark ages!
No offense to desk jockeys, I'm one, but I'd like to see people like Will and Ryan actually do some manual labor for a week in their late 60's on up. It's easy for them to say work longer because the heaviest thing they lift is a pen. Try building a house, working in a factory, digging up sewer lines when you're 69 with a bad back, hip or knees.
is intended to be a factual statement
Our society is made up people of all skills and income levels. The majority of the population will likely work their entire lives in jobs where they will never make enough money to properly save for retirement. We are a better society when we help take care of the elderly when they are no longer able to do the work that that used to do. Why is there even a debate about this?? Why should we engage in a race to the bottom.
"Why is there even a debate about this??"
because there are gop/teabaggers.....shameless greedy bastards.
Why don't these SOB's understand this? Why don't they understand that it is the modest masses that got them rich in the first place? The little guy who is satisfied with what he has and what he can do and isn't out there lying, cheating, stealing, taking advantage and screwing people so he get more? Does this asshole expect everybody to be like HIM???
Their homeworld was a place called Earth, located in an uninteresting part of the galaxy. They had an expression: pride goeth before a fall. Their pride was their undoing. I know. I was there....They did not listen, of course. Arrogant men never do.
Because your tv told you to.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Just so we are all clear - Reagan's "expansion" was financed through massive government debt.
Tax cuts and defense spending all financed through massive government debt.
Did our pal George Will forget to mention that? Hmmmmmmmm.
Should I be surprised?
Every time you bring up the failure of a conservative be it sex or fiscal policy they will say it was years ago. Then claim they have learned. Then they get elected and do it again. So quit reminding them of what they did years ago. They've changed, promise (fingers crossed) We've got social issues to iron out.
is intended to be a factual statement
Reagan's "expansion" was also fueled by increased productivity and stagnant salaries. In other words: people were (and are) working for the most part longer/harder for less money overall. Which means that corporate profits have risen steadily for the past 30+ years.
Most people have been suckered into equating economic growth with the stock market and GDP, metrics which have little correlation with the financial state of the individuals participating in the economy. The assumption is that if the rich are doing very good, everybody is also doing very good. AKA "trickle down economics." Which is now patently false.
But let's not forget, it takes two to tango. The elites in this country could not have been able to get away with this unfair system if a large portion of the American public did not posses a very flawed character.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Didn't the Reagan Recovery also have a fair bit of help from the Reagan Tax Hikes?
And let's not forget, Reagan could not manage his way out of a public restroom, and he was for all intents and purposes mentally incompetent by the time he started his second term. So if anything it was Greenspan's economy.
Greenspan was in charge through Republican and Democrat administrations, which is why for the most part there is little difference between the so-called "Reagan Economy" and our current economy, or any other administrations in between for that matter. Some bubbles here and there, but for the most part it remains the same for the average American: work more for less pay.
Heck, some of the economic talking points used by Reagan, the Bushes, Clinton, and Obama are almost verbatim.
Simply blaming a semi-functional moron like Reagan or singling out a single one of his policies misses the whole picture. Esp. if we consider Reagan had a Democrat house and senate in his second term, for example.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Oh, fuck you George Will!
Ditto that Captain . Thanks .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
had to live off of Social Security....
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
now don't ya georgie boy. medicare too.
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
I am "transferring someone else's wealth to me" according to George Will's toupee?
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
OK, I'm watching it now, muted, with a little Johnny Winter to narrate. Fuck, if you crank Johnny up loud enough, T-pwnd even sounds sensible and forceful...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
It's how much of a Douchebag George Will is in here.
These people show over and over again what little grasp on reality they have.
Walmart and McDonalds are the top employers in the country, by far. Are the people working hard there paying for their own healthcare and saving for retirement on those wages?
Just what percentage of the population do they think can squeeze into the top 50%?
They see only themselves. They are totally unaware of reality.
LMAO at your comment. "Just what percentage of the population do they think can squeeze into the top 50%?" Good one.
They don't give a damn about anyone else , that's the bottom line , I've got mine , you can go die before I'll part with a penny and contribute to the society and the country that enabled me to get / be where I am .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
It would have been so great for seniors if they'd, like Will suggests, have invested all their hard-earned cash in the stock market for the Great Bush Economic Disaster of '08. Christ, these GOPper thugs won't be happy until 98% of Americans are living in cardboard boxes and begging for crumbs to eat.
"In theory theory and practice are alike. In practice they are very different."
It's amazing the low wages and terrible working conditions someone will accept when they've been begging for crumbs on the street for 5 years...
Transfer of wealth from persons with less money than those to whom it is transferred to is 'good, right and proper' capitalism.
Transfer of wealth from persons with mover money than those to whom it is transferred to is 'bad, wrong and improper' socialism.
Get with it people! Preserving the 'Alger Hiss' myth is what counts & Wills does a very good job at this. This is his Job, maybe even his calling so lets give him a break. Loyalty to the ones who pay you is a time honored tradition in this country and Will is loyal to his paymasters.
Opps. please read "mover" as "more". ;)
Other than that, I'm with you, brother.
It's a strange world when someone like George Will is getting feedback that his ideas aren't complete shit.
Thanks for the correction. I was just too fired up over Wills to do the proper research. Glad someone understood what I was trying to say.
If that is true, please point out all the wealthy elderly. Just point them out, there must be thousands of them since this program has been in use for decades. Just show me all the wealthy elderly, please, just to prove your not a lying sack of crap. Just prove it, because I know many elderly that are insanely poor. So it appears you Sir are a liar!
Yeah, and all those plush retirement communities, in great neighborhoods, with thier 12-karat gold flatware and celebrity chefs. I can barely count (on one hand) all the luxury retirement communities I've seen.
George Will is absolutely wrong about Social Security. Workers (which I don't think he has any clue as to what real "work" entails) must pay 5+% of their EARNED income into Social Security and the employer matches this amount. However, CAPITAL GAINS does NOT count as earned income! Secondly, the upper limit on Social Security earnings of about $100,000 is far below what most bankers and other wealthy people make. I've also done an actuarial analysis of my own benefits. I will be very lucky to recoup my contributions before I die. Let's start a reverse on George and his friends by moving to restore significant estate taxes on those with $5 million or more in net wealth and changing the capital gains tax to be the same as normal income tax. That would equalize the playing field.
You know, if Mr. Will hadn't begun his life on third base, I might be more interested in his tips on scoring runs.
I am sure he'd be singing a different song . This asshole / pretend intellectual is so out of touch that it's ridiculous .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
George, baby, I'm 60 and had to take early retirement. Transfer some of your wealth my way. I'll put it to good use, I promise.
about people running up their credit cards and not saving enough. That was definitely a huge problem for Americans, and now we're literally paying for it.
and the problem is that Americans don't have enough disposable income. Folks have had to use credit cards and second mortgages to pay for rising education and medical costs. There has been little rise in income along with these rising expenses. We need higher wages (raise the minimum wage and increase the number of unions). The engine of the economy is consumers consuming. We are paying for stagnant income levels for the middle class and the resultant debt accrued out of necessity, not imprudence.
As for asshat Will, and that social Darwinism of his ilk, aren't we a wealthy and compassionate enough nation to take care of our sick and elderly? I know it's not Christian of me, but I think we should be.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/...
He turned 70 in May. Has he been collecting it? I'd like to know. He is a member of the 'Do as I Say, Not as I Do,' 'Liars and Hypocrites United' and the 'We do Not Recognise Irony' clubs, so I would not be shocked at all to find him collecting SS funds since his 65th and feeling perfectly smug about and entitled to it.
me-oww!
I will bet $100 to a dime that he collects Social Security.
evil is evil
Welfare is getting money for nothing. Soc. Sec. is not getting money for nothing except in rare instances. The money, as has been abundantly explained elsewhere, has been paid in by the worker receiving benefits. My personal history is illustrative. I'm 63 and receive SSDI totaling about $1427/month. That covers our mortgage payment.
I started my working career in 3rd or 4th grade working on a truck farm for $.25/hour. Yes, that's right, twenty-five cents an hour. I also did piece-work and was paid by how much I put out. Every payday, I got my wages minus Soc. Sec. deductions. The boss didn't want to get in trouble with the Feds. In high school, I made $1/hour flipping burgers as a fry cook at a Henry's Drive-In, sort of a low-rent McDonalds in the mid-60s. Paycheck was again minus Soc. Sec. contributions. I suffered a spinal cord injury in 1965 and was disabled. I went to technical school and became a computer programmer/analyst and worked from 1987-1995 before I had to retire. All during that time I paid into Soc. Sec. and never received a dime in benefits until 1996.
So, Mr. Will can kiss my sweet ass with his holier-than-thou pronouncements about Soc. Sec. being a 'welfare' program. I earned every Frickin' dime I've received because I paid into the system since I was about 10 years old. This Ivory Tower asshole doesn't know Sheep-shit from Spaghetti about real life, to quote my late father.
...I CRAP bigger than you.
George who now?
Oh THAT washed up old turd?
I thought he passed away.
Greedy selfish panty hose wearing twerp ! Too bad Krugman wasn't around this time to embarrass Will and set him straight . Greed , the only virtue these Reich wing assholes know .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
Typical Reich winger , it's their MO , just say the very opposite of what is true and factual , it's not the elderly , the middle class and poor who are under attack , it's the haves in society , the wealthy . Joseph Goebbels would be very proud if he were still alive today .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
with their gold-plated walkers and diamond studded canes. George, you are an idiot.
Yeah, let's transfer it to the top 2 percenters like George Will.
Every dollar taken out of social security was put into it by the same people who will collected it. There is no transfer of wealth. To say its a transfer of wealth is to lie.
People like this live in isolation and think their brains are better that others. Mr. Will is a classic elitists that should experience the challanges in life like most people, lose a home, job, son, medical care, pension, life savings etc. No empathy is like a sociopath, Ted Bundy in a suit.
Well said G man .
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
I'm going to start calling him Alice , Alice in
wonderReich wing land ."The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
Newsweek said it. It must be true.
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/03/06/social-sec...
Good ol' Georgie there must have a painting of himself hid somewhere that's taking all the aging and beatings of aging for him, so he'll stay 'young' forever...But I'll bet dollars to donuts....when the time comes, he'll be standing there with his hand out for HIS Social Security as well. Even though, with his income (I have no idea how much he makes a year), he's prolly got a nice portfolio too.
those wingnut welfare checks
The Bradley Prizes formally recognize individuals of extraordinary talent and dedication who have made contributions of excellence in areas consistent with The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation’s mission. Up to four Prizes of $250,000 each are awarded annually to innovative thinkers and practitioners whose achievements strengthen the legacy of the Bradley brothers and the ideas to which they were committed.
Will won in 2005
I am assuming that this pseudo-intellectual dirtbag understands what an annuity is. That's social security: a fully funded annuity. Will is trying to use his much-practiced faux gravitas to float a meme that counters the truth that all privatization scams are attempts to transfer the People's wealth into the hands of evil, greedy, obscenely wealthy social parasites who make their living through theft and predation upon the defenseless. Accuse those who you are attempting to wrong of the crime that you are attempting to commit against them. I wonder why this lying, malign sociopath has a forum, and can only conclude because the network that gave it to him hates America and hates the American People.
George Will: a fetid POS and total failure as a human being.
What Paul said.
All hail Marx (Groucho) and Lennon (John)!
Giving money to seniors works well. They pass it down to kids and grandkids. What is more republican that that??
Money taken directly from my paycheck for retirement is welfare?
Mr. Will, go fuck yourself.
or cared that Will's comment, attacked here almost universally and freequently with profanity as callous,
is actually a comment on why Pawlenty's plan is farfetched.
If you go to the Cato Institute speech Heather links and read the speech Will gave, it displays very obvious things about his philosophy, character and one talent.
First, he is a dedicated political libertarian by nature. Second he is unabashedly cynical. Finally, like the game of baseball he professes to love and understand, he is awash in statistics which, when rergurgitated sound as if the one who possesses them has vast knowledge. Instead they demonstrate one who can observe but not play. He manipulates and mixes equally meaningful and meaningless facts to fit his philosophy and impress his audience.
This quote from the Cato speech sums it all up well.
It is hard too see where Will has a good thing to say about the existence of either of those things.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
I want all the money I've paid into social security since I was 16 years of age BACK from the government and I call for every other person to do the same. Let our government return all OUR money and let's put some smiles on the faces of the RW . .
Will this make George Will happy, or . .
Does George Will just want seniors to DIE, and die quick???
...little Georgie grew up among privilege and never interacted with an elderly family member who spent a career on physical labor. No sireee, everything was tea and crumpets in Georgies little bowtie world.
I would love to see him get a kharmic payback and find himself in his late 70's poor and on the streets. And when he applied for aid to be told, "I'm sorry we cut those programs. Be a good Republican and pull yourself up by your bootstraps you slacker!"
Oh, I'd rather "transfer wealth to the elderly" than to the oil companies, wall street, over-pampered rich celebrities, etc., etc., etc.
I guess George Will would call me one of those elderly people. I am 69 and disabled from the kind of work & the long hours I had to do to support 3 kids who had a Kompassionate Konservative Khristian for a father, who didn't think it was his job to help support the kids.
Transferrring wealth to me? Bring it on George. I could use some wealth right about now as my back grows worse by the day. Maybe you could let me write your columns George and I could get paid so I can
pay my bills with my "wealth". Heaven knows your columns would improve by 1000% !
And don't you dare call me elderly.
supported by Social Security Survivors Benefits? I guess they will be the next in line for the conservative firing squad. It's too bad you have a dead parent kiddies- not my problem, your mother should have picked a better husband. We all have to be held "accountable" and show "personal responsibility."
As twice widowed once at 39- and again at 52, I found out the hard way that there is NO survivors benefit for single adults. No widow or widower's benefit unless you have dependant children or are disabled.
Talk about a slap in the face.
First they ignore us..then they ridicule us..now they are feeding us chicken crap- sign my petition:
http://www.change.org/petitions/fda-stop-feed...
www.ickenittlepost.com
right here:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22532-2005Jan19.html
sharpened just for him when the revolution comes.
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