Franken Talks Down Angry Mob
By Heather Saturday Sep 05, 2009 2:30pmFrom http://www.dustytrice.com/:
I got to witness something really special the other day. About a dozen tea party activists had staked out Sen. Al Franken’s booth at the Minnesota State Fair and confronted him loudly when he arrived. But within minutes, he’d turned an unruly crowd into a productive conversation on health care. The discussion went from insurance reform, to the public option, to veterans benefits, to cap and trade. He made a few laugh and even told a touching story that moved a few to tears. A whole lot of common ground was found.
This was really wonderful to watch. I hope they get a chance to post more of their footage of Al at the State Fair.
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"So, there was an angry mob."
That's a unproven statement. When we see the video of the "angry mob", then you can make that statement. But until then let's not make this out to be what hasn't been proven.
This kind of talk is Hannityish.
oh island of serenity - you don't believe the angry right wing mob stories that abound?
I didn't see any angry mob.
I worked on the Obama campaign, I was proud to do it, and I'll be proud to do it again.
That being said, I have a lot of friends who are conservative Republicans who are intelligent, thoughtful, and articulate and when it comes to political debate we have an unwritten rule.
"If you feel that the best way to get your point across is to raise your voice, youve already lost."
And that's why I enjoyed this video. It's of Al Franken, a man whom a lot of people thought would be an unreasonable and divisive member of the Senate, speaking thoughtfully and rationally on a subject that concerns us all. It's quite enjoyable to watch, not because of some idea that he 'smacks down' the opposition or some bullshit like that. It's that he takes facts, combines them with personal thoughts, and turns them into an argument that leaves the people whom he's talking to (people who disagree with him) something to think about.
THAT, my friends, is this kind of discourse I've been begging for for quite some time...
This thread is exactly what I like about the left. When they see their own side pulling bullshit they call them on it.
I agree that the title is misleading and wrong and it's good to see so many people saw the same thing and spoke up.
I have a very devout and very respectful Christian friend. I've asked her many times why people like her don't call out the radicals that are representing "her side".
I don't remember her answer because it was some mumbly bullshit that wasn't memorable which is why I keep asking her.
I can't remember the last time I saw the right call themselves out on anything.
The title is kind of misleading. Franken did a great job. BUT, to call this crowd an angry mob is misleading. They were actually pretty respectful. Angry mob is people shouting down a wheelchair bound woman. These people here actually let Senator Franken speak.
they said they were angry leading up to the video being shot. I doesn't look like they caught much of that in this clip. They said they'd be posting more vidoe at their site. We'll see if any additional footage ends up bearing out the title for the video. I just re-used their title.
I didn't see any angry mob. Even posters who support Obama made the same claims in the youtube comment section that I did. Let's not become conservatives and say things that didn't happen. This was actually very refreshing to see these people listen to Franken. Give them some credit. These people to me didn't seem like Bachmann conservatives. They were Republicans looking for a serious Q&A. The first woman in the video may have started out a little Beckish at most, but she did give Franken the oppurtunity to speak.
WE bitch and moan about the nasty townhall idiots and rightfully so. But when Republicans come out and ask questions and let us respond, they deserve credit for not being part of Dick's Army and concerned people regardless of how uninformed they are.
If this was the worse they did during the recess, we should be happy because the MSM would be sitting there with their thumbs up their ass looking for a story.
I doubt this was the worst. Al is just a true communicator.
Maybe this was no angry mob per se but it could have easily turned into one if the dialogue wasn't handled just right. As we have seen with other gatherings such as this one all it takes is one or two instigators to set that angry mob mentality into motion.
In my opinion Franken used his natural sense of humor and humanity to disarm them before that could happen and as a result the meeting or town hall if you will turned into a very productive dialogue.
For Minnesota, this WAS an angry mob. Did you hear? Raised voices! Heck, speaking out at all! In New York, this would have been a riot.
Seriously, though, the problem is that the Right believes its own propaganda about Franken, to their own embarrassment. Anyone who listened to his radio show knows he's smart, wonkishly knowledgeable on the issues, personable, and of course funny. The "angry Franken" stereotype, the "foul mouthed comedian" stereotype, they're just lies, that the Right believes to their disadvantage.
That lady was about to bust a gasket.
Good street talk by Franken.
I wonder just how much of the 'calming down' we missed.
...common sense.
Come on. "Mob"??
Change the headline, already. That's ridiculously hyperbolic and makes C&L look silly.
This kind of talk makes us look like them. Complete fabrication of the truth. When we see the video of the "angry mob" then it's fair game.
Complete fabrication of the truth
Really. It sounds very plausible to me. Very likely in fact, judging by past performance. I've seen what happens at these tea parties. People are not about to forget their behavior either! The right wing screwed the pooch i'm afraid, poor bastards.
As for the Republicans - they don't have enough integrity to feel shame. They took advantage of everyone. So much for public service. Ha!
The author reported that the crowd was unruly. Just because that part of the event wasn't shown in this clip doesn't mean it didn't happen. On September 11th, 2001 two planes hit the WTC. Do you have a problem with reports that the planes were hijacked? After all, there is no video showing the hijackers in action.
Franken is an amazing speaker, I have attended some of his speeches well before his campaign got underway, and had a chance to speak to him briefly. He speaks genuinely and thoughtfully and could probably have been an excellent police negotiator. It's no surprise that he could calm down a boisterous or unruly group of people.
He seems to be wanting to learn as much as he can on this subject and he's calmly explaining it to these people who are willing to listen.
I'm guessing, what you have at a lot of the Democratic town halls, are insurance company reps who dress like "average people" and just have to shout once which then makes others there who want to yell, but probably wouldn't otherwise, feel comfortable enough to yell and shout down whomever. Now not all of them starting the shouting are insurance reps because I'm sure there are some people in this country that just feel like if poor people die, it's not that big of a deal (like Bill Kristol said). There are others who, whether the right wingers admit it or not, are just not going to go along with a black guy's ideas. Not all Republicans are racists or bigots, but a lot of bigots and racists are Republicans.
Unfortunately, rather than trying to advance legitimate debate, the news media would rather advance this insane fake outrage as legitimate debate. How many people saw Al Franken's chat here on a 24 hour news network? I sure as hell didn't.
"I don't know if you remember my saying that."
"Er, nah, ahh wus too busy thinkin' some immigrant might be gittin' some healthcare."
my favorite part.
It's just got to be the immigrants fault somehow!
That was his only screw up. He sounded a bit peavish and stumbled a little as he tried to apologize. I love Fraken as a pol and I hope the good folks up north appreciate what they have.
From the heart. For his mind.
BUT LOOK AT WHAT HE'S UP AGAINST!?!
Just common sense and information. Thank you Mr. Franken. We need more voices like yours.
Al Franken is the real deal.
that's why my husband, myself, and everyone I know voted for him - we're lucky to have him in Minnesota!
you need an army of Al Frankens.
. .
earlier.
obviously. Hope we don't start taking the HP route around here.
In response to, "Where is the angry mob?" New
Sat, 09/05/2009 - 15:52 — Michelle
Dusty Trice says:
September 4, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Good question. I’m out at the Minnesota State Fair for the next few days, but once I’m back at my desk next week I’ll work on posting the rest of the video. I trimmed it where I did because the Franken booth is right across the street from a radio station and a lot of the audio is basically drown out by the lovely Miley Cyrus. She’s partying in the USA, you know.
The full video is about 25 minutes. It shows just about everything.
Dusty Trice says:
September 4, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Good question. I’m out at the Minnesota State Fair for the next few days, but once I’m back at my desk next week I’ll work on posting the rest of the video. I trimmed it where I did because the Franken booth is right across the street from a radio station and a lot of the audio is basically drown out by the lovely Miley Cyrus. She’s partying in the USA, you know.
The full video is about 25 minutes. It shows just about everything.
The Crowning Achievement of Capitalism
I don't blame Miley Cyrus. She is just doing what she does for a living which is to entertain those that come to see her shows.
I blame the the people who choose to be ignorant and entertained instead of being informed. Maybe it was a good choice to have Franken there at the same time. Franken was and is an entertainer so maybe he can offset that a bit and bring more people to hear his message.
Of course they are going to be polite, and listen to reason.
Theres only one Bachmann here.
Al Franken was crystal clear. This was the best explanation I have heard from anyone.
Answer them like this when there's a possibility for dialogue and like Barney Frank did when there's not.
Franken is going to turn out to be among the best senators we have.
is why I voted for him. Yeah us!
:)
I also liked Franken's statement about the many bankruptcies which have occured from the high costs of medical care to. Its odd but most of those people in the video are just one medical condition away from living out the rest of lives in absolute poverty. Their savings have been depleted, 401(k)s reduced, and other investments reduced in value due to the recent financial situation. Many also continue to take on large levels of debt to compensate for this. Heck, many Americans are in this same boat but most do not see it. All it takes is one major medical condition to occur that isn't covered by your health insurance company to set your inevitable bankruptcy into motion. The only way this wouldn't occur is if you happen to have say, $100,000 just sitting around to cover it and I am fairly certain those people in that video are not in that position. I know I am not.
Chicken feed. I had one knee replaced and the bill was $75,000.00. BTW, my surgeon got $4000.00, the private hospital got the rest.
A pension is an abstract thing to many people. It is something that is somewhere waiting to come into being when they need it. They just do not understand that some pensions are simply gone, never to return, and others are reduced to a pittance that no one could possibly live on. I am thinking of buying stock in a refrigerator box company, and in those little hibachi manufacturers.
Because I was once one triple bypass with major complications away from it and lost the race... I can only ask if we can borrow Mr. Franken for a while.
My entire retirement nest egg was wiped out by a single 16 day hospital stay and another couple of weeks of outpatient treatment.
Al's gotten conceited?
What?
hehe. I think they mean talked down from the panic they were obviously in over health insurance changes...
who can get these people to calm down long enough to listen and learn. Most of the townhall people are too lazy to read, and too interested in screaming their heads off to listen, but Sen. Franken was hopefully able to educate these people.
Anything to make them think for themselves again is good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSSRJF9P-4U
And very cool too. You've got great taste, you know that? :)
I've never been eaten.
may I offer my condolences, I've been eaten uncountable times and it has almost always been pleasant. ;)
turning, it will continue and they'll think critically about these things.
I don't think this is fair because obviously this angry mob was not properly trained. The minute he started talking they should have started chanting and refused to let him be heard. Obviously they are behind on their talking - or should I say non-talking points. Communication and reason are for socialist losers, and I'm sure it won't happen again.
this is "angry mob" minnesota state fair style. they're all full of deep fat fried goodies. sen. franken disarmed them with factual information they wouldn't get from rep. bachman. in addition to that the humdity might have been low.
Sure, a lot of this crowd is from the teaparty movement. The t-shirt is telling. But during this whole segment the conversation remain civilized, yes, even the teabaggers really listen to him. And I think some heads turned the other way and agreed with him. This is exactly what a townhall meeting should be. Smaller scale and civilized.
I wonder what an angry mob of Amish is like?
"Keepest thy ne'er-do-well government hands free from my Medicare .... And be careful around dem English."
I think Al did a fantastic job and he was definately countering a lot of the things that are being shouted at other town halls, but these people were not an angry mob. I also didn't hear any discussion of cap-n-trade or a touching story that caused any teary eyes. I kind of wonder if the video was changed to show the second part of the discussion but the original caption text was left unchanged?
and, frankly, I didn't see anything in that segment that made me think he persuaded any one of those nutjobs...they just kept parroting winger talking points and seemed like they didn't really hear anything Franken had to say
...but there clearly were people hostile to his position. And I'll take Franken's way over your way (writing them all off as "nutjobs") any day.
At least by doing it the way Franken did it he got some of those folks to listen -- a major victory in and of itself. Remember: most of these folks are not evil or bad; they're just misinformed. It's our job to get them to listen. Over time some of them will change their minds.
I'm not convinced any one of them were ready to listen to anything he had to say. And, they are nutjobs, whether that's impolitic or not.
...based upon the reaction of the woman with the "Taxed Enough Already" shirt the hostile folks were at least listening to him.
You've got to reach these folks before you can bring them over to our side of the Lord.
the earlier posts
Franken did the one thing we liberals must discipline ourselves to do: he did not "kick down."
Notice there was no mockery of the anyone -- even opponents; no "what planet are you on" remarks. Al Fraken pulled an FDR. He made sure that he didn't come off as being too clever or giving off an air of moral superiority.
And that's how we win.
Because Barney did an awesome job too. Sure the evening didn't end quite as well as Franken's, but then again the venue was a bit different and allowed for more personal and in dept conversation. Besides, there were no "Obama is a fascist commie Hitler" screaming, which makes it pretty calm by townhall standards.
The main thing Barney did was take any substance that could be found in the rambling question and answer it as clearly as he could. I'm sure if the venue had been more open, like a fair, he could have more in depth conversations with the electorate, like Franken did here.
And no Barney did not do an "awesome job." Yes, he made a lot of liberals feel morally superior about themselves, but he did nothing to change a single mind.
What Barney Frank should have done was deflect off the LaRouche supporter and ask her to explain why she thought health care reform was "nazism." If he had been truly clever he would used reason and attempted discourse to take apart her assertions one by one. Instead, all Barney did was to give pseudo-liberals a chance to thump their chests and proclaim their alleged greatness.
I'll tell you one thing; if given the choice an FDR or an RFK would have went with Franken's method over Barney Frank's in a flash. You remember FDR and RFK? They came from a time when liberals routinely won elections.
It's unreasonable to expect people to talk reason to unreasonable people.
People are only willing to change their mind when they're actually interested in a discussion, not shouting slogans and trying to rattle the presenter, and intimidating others in attendance as in other town hall meetings.
And using FDR, JFK and RFK is an inept attempt at historical analogy, since the political tone was much different then, particularly in the second two cases. FDR did have his Father Coughlins and Fascist Wallstreeters, and an incalcitrant Supreme Court, but the average person did not engage in flaming and troll like histrionics as tea baggers.
Barney Frank probably will never change the mind of that LaRouche supporter who was making the nazi allegation. But with that said, she's not who Frank would be addressing. Instead, Frank could have used her silly statements to convince others more reasonable.
And I sincerely disagree; both RFK and FDR have much to teach today's liberals how to talk with the American people. The Right uses these bumper-sticker sayings to tune out our talking points at the outset. As Bob Somerby recently observed:
Somerby is spot-on correct.
That's only if the others can hear the statements over all the yelling and chanting and insults.
Part of the problem is Health Care Insurance Reform supporters have been trying to talk reasonably while the naysayers grabbed the bull by the testicles, given a flip-flop presentation of the numbers for the reform versus those against.
What's actually happening was the supporters were taken by surprise, by a relatively small group of people trying to look larger than they are.
So now they're ready with their answers both as hard cop/soft cop styles when the tea baggers have already changed their methods to look more reasonable, so they can accuse the supporters of paranoia, and not wanting to "listen to the people."
The only problem is there is so many links showing them in their initial irrational action on-line, many of them posted by themselves, to make this new method effectual.
I don't think there's a simple formula for changing the minds of people. AF does well in these conditions--I don't think he'd have the same experience facing a town hall with people chanting and screaming.
I don't think there's much to be gained from asking that woman at the BF meeting why she thought it was Nazism except giving her a platform to speak her own talking points. He cut her off because it was a non question. Other people were given more to say. The guy who claimed it was unconstitutional was asked if Medicare was unconstitional until the guy defensively claimed he wasn't a Constitional scholar, so Frank could ask why he brought it up. He also read from the bill, iirc, and when people shouted said he woudln't be accused of not reading the bill by people who got angry when he read it.
"Listen to them" "don't put them down" "explain without being condescending" works fine one on one against someone speaking with you. It doesn't work at all against people whose purpose is to keep you from speaking, period.
What I imagine would work for me wouldn't necessarily work for other people. If that were true nobody would listen to the right wing people stirring them up. They sound ridiculous to me, but other people love them. AF handles things here well, but I don't think a single thing he did here would work at a Town Hall where no one would let him speak.
One advantage, it seems to me, of the Far Right is that they are never wrong. No matter what anyone does or says, no matter how much evidence is against them, they are always the righteous victim. I think it's sometimes a mistaken impression of the Left that they (the Left) is controlling that response, as if their being angry means the Left is being condescending. That might happen in one on one conversations, but no I don't think BF did anything negative for the fight at all at his Town Hall. If they hadn't had that moment to play on Fox News they'd have replaced it with another that supported their view.
Minnesota has not-for-profit medical insurance.
Spends 91 cents out of every premium-paid-dollar on health care.
Rest of nation spends only 80-90 cents on health care.
He's right. Even without a public option - or better yet HR 676 "Improved Medicare For All" - rational regulatory reform alone would be a vast improvement.
The Netherlands also has a Health Care system like Switzerland - all private insurers, all tightly regulated. They can't refuse you or charge you more if you have a pre-existing condition. They can't cancel you for getting sick. And they cannot impose caps on the amount they will pay out in a year or in the lifetime of the contract - once you've paid your premiums (and any deductibles) the insurance company MUST pay all expenses.
And I'm glad to see Franken standing opposed to Obama's apparent deal with Big Pharma. Medicare MUST negotiate drug prices, like the VA or WalMart do.
Let's hope Franken can sway some Senators to see reason.
(ps I could care less whether it was or was not an "angry mob" .. Franken did a great job of explaining. A lot of right wing hysteria is founded in very real concerns that MUST be addressed. The right wing media has done an exemplary job of propagandizing those real concerns into mob hysteria. Franken did a great job of addressing those real concerns without even once directly confronting the artificial hysteria, which could well have led to shouting, even in Minnesota!)
You are right about healthcare in the Netherlands. I might just add that the base premium is 90 Euros (US $130) per month for an adult.
Heather, that title is as misleading on your post as it is on the video. That is nowhere near an "angry mob". Nobody is yelling, shoving, pushing, or even raising a voice. The people are standing quietly around Franken, speaking in polite, normal tones.
It's bad enough when Republican pundits mislabel and deliberately lie about events. Let's not do it ourselves, ok?
I'd trade two Max Baucus, a Kent Conrad, and throw in a Ben Nelson for another Al Franken. Before he's done, I think he will be an incredible Senator.
I concur!...Just another example of how it takes an articulate comedian to bring perspective to a serious social issue.
I saw Al talk yesterday at a live broadcast of Minnesota Public Radio's show "Midday". He brought up the encounter he had with the 'teabaggers' (as he also referred to them) and talked about how he was able to calm them down, even though they started out worked up and irrational. I believe he was answering a question about how to combat all the misinformation floating out there, and he was making the point that this can be done through these kinds of interactions.
Check out the interview here: http://*******.com/kl4y4l
And you can also watch a video from the broadcast of him doing his parlor trick of drawing the map of the USA here: http://*******.com/luskbp
Both links take you to MPR sites.
Here are the full links:
Audio interview:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/...
Video of map drawing:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/...
Thanks for the links to Minnesota Public Radio. I'm once again reminded why I contributed to Blue America and twice to Al Franken's recount efforts rather than to my own Senator Chuck Schumer in New York or the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Commitee. Frankly, any mail I recieve from either of them takes a one-way trip to the circular file.
Franken is the real deal, plain-talking and I truly wish he was one of New York's Senators. Give us more people like Franken, Russ Feingold, Bernie Sanders and Barney Frank,Anthony Weiner and Dennis Kucinich in the House and we'll really start to clean up the mess the Republican pukes made.
I was watching this clip a second time and it's amazing how fast these people run out of steam once they get through shouting their Beck-imbaugh parrot-squawk talking points. When you start getting into details, they lose interest pretty quickly. Second, I'm amazed Minnesota doesn't allow for-profit insurance! Why don't we have it too?! I swear if it wasn't for that dang cold, I'd move there.
Arianna Huffington was an active Republican before meeting and talking to Franken at a cocktail party. She gives him credit for opening her eyes.
His show on Air America was terrific. He would have on the brightest that they have on the right and make mincemeat out of all their talking points.
I have only seen or heard him loose his cool one time, and it was only slightly and totally understandable. He was debating Bill-O.
not just a paid actor, but an actual user!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEuUdNaU7zc
vote for him, I do have to give him props for answering one question with a somewhat straight up answer. The rest he did a standard politician duck an weave on. But he did answer the first question straight up. But give him time he'll learn to duck all of them.
i see this debate going on, from up here[north of the border].
and i shake my head seeing the people who are against health
care reform.what is wrong with these people!up here there is no big deal about it, you show up with your medical i.d. to the doctor,clinic,or hospital.and they put you trought.also when are politicians up here start talking about having some type of user "fees",for health care you know what happens too him?hes treated simillar too politicians in the u.s. who are for gun control.[not making this up].ok its not a perfect system, but is far better
than being insured by the private sector with its "pre existing
conditions" and cost etc.
I'd like to see Franken and the rest of the dems put some of their arguments in greater perspective.
He mentioned very briefly how preventive care will stop people from making so many ER visits. Most people have been to an ER and they know it's a long wait and they know it's expensive.
What Franken could have said to expand on his comment was that ER visits are the MOST EXPENSIVE treatment available and the least effective.
And a lot of people simply can't pay the bill which then gets deferred to the tax-payer anyway.
So the concerned tax-payer who thinks they're paying too much and don't want universal health care because they believe it will cost more just needs it put into simple numbers.
By providing preventive care to everyone, the tax-payer will save BILLIONS by paying $70.00 for a doctor's visit plus $10 for anti-biotics, instead of $1,500.00 when the person shows up in the ER with an infection that turned into something much worse because it wasn't treated in a timely manner.
And so on...
It is probably not a great idea to heckle someone who has made a living as a stand up comedian.
he is extremely intelligent. The other thing is that Al is passionate about making this country work. He isn't in this for the money or as a power trip. In the long run, that will be his downfall, but in the short run he will be doing what he thinks is right. If only every politician would do what they thought was right for the people of their district, this country would be one of the greatest places in the world.
Reality is something completely different. I can count on one hand the number of Senators and Representatives that are interested in doing what they think is right. The other 530 assholes are doing what they think will line their pockets, keep them in office, get them closer to being President.
That is the capitalism of democracy. Everything is for sale, especially the votes.
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