Fox News Sunday Panel Soft-Shoes the Use of Torture
Brit Hume and Bill Kristol were in usual form on Fox News Sunday crying about the release of the torture memos by the Obama administration. Without blinking an eye Bill Kristol dismisses the methods used in the interrogations.
Wallace: As you read the memos and you learn what we did and how top Justice Department officials justified it, are you struck by how brutal we were or how careful we were?
Kristol: How careful. I mean has any other country at war gotten memos from the Justice Department? Extremely carefully of recent I would say. Especially the Steve Bradbury 2005 memos before going ahead and trying to deal with the rather small number of terrorists who had been involved in murdering thousands of Americans and were very much intending to do more of that..I think..you read those memos, you think that's what everyone's so upset about.
Kristol goes on to rant about the memos being released and decry the potential investigations that can come from it. I'd like to know how anyone could read the things that were in those memos and have that kind of response?
Brit Hume thinks that this is just old news now since the Obama administration has decided to stop torturing prisoners and can't understand what possible benefit can come from the specifics being released to the terrorists. Brit I hate to tell you this but I think the gist of what was in those memos has been out in the public domain for some time now for those terrorists to read.
All of these talking heads today had a couple of themes with their arguments. One that if torturing prisoners "worked" and we got some vital information from them, then it's just fine to violate the law and it justifies this brutality. The other is the we need to look forward argument and that there's no need to dwell on what happened because the Obama administration says using these methods has stopped. Would they ever apply that same argument to defend some drug dealer on the street that killed someone or to any street crime that occurs in the United States for that matter? Somehow I doubt it.
I wonder just how "careful" Kristol would think anyone was being if he was waterboarded an average of over six times a day for a month? And if it didn't work the first five or ten times even, what are you going to get from anyone from waterboarding them that many times other than some sadistic pleasure from knowing you're punishing the person being waterboarded? I wonder how "careful" he would think they were if it was his child being tortured in front of him because someone thought he was a terrorist? I wonder how "careful" he would think they were if it was his head getting knocked in?
We have laws on the books that don't allow policemen to beat confessions out of people in the United States for a reason. Why these clowns can't manage to bring the same reasoning to this debate is beyond me.
The right is starting to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher in the old "Peanuts " cartoons.
It is unintelligible gibberish that we are compelled to answer, for reasons we cannot quite fathom....
He's happy the torture memo's were declassified because they prove "HOW SUCCESSFUL THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION'S POLICIES ON TORTURE WERE!!!":
http://drudgereport.com/flashcm.htm
Only Darth could spin this one so fast it'd make you dizzy.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Like their "Valley of the Wolves" video that was shown to Muslims exclusively.The whole purpose is to rile up and piss off the Muslims
Specificly (Gary Bussey's) part in the movie
"We have laws on the books that don't allow policemen to beat confessions out of people in the United States for a reason. Why these clowns can't manage to bring the same reasoning to this debate is beyond me."
They do. Just look at the culture behind film after film in which the police deride having to give Miranda warnings.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
I think I'll go out and beat up a terrorist.
Who's the terrorist I'll beat up? What difference does that make?
I'll just pick me one and have at it. WTF, who's going to prosecute me? No one in this country that's for sure.
How pathetic have we become when idiots like Hume and Kristol think they can talk like that and the torturers and their enablers walk with impunity.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
now I need a place to hide away
In covering their own asses, at least in an internal 'moralistic' sense. These people knew what they were doing, knew that it was wrong, and thought that writing various obviously wrong legal opinions, then keeping them secret was a good way to prevent possible prosecution for their crimes. I'm sure that most of the players have now convinced themselves that it was both 'necessary' and 'patriotic' to waterboard a single man so many times. It was extra-legal punishment, pure and simple.
The last I heard (around 2004) it was known at least 140+ had died during interrogation (we know of) and if I remember correctly at least for 16 there was sufficent evidence of homocide
One that if torturing prisoners "worked" and we got some vital information from them, then it's just fine to violate the law and it justifies this brutality
as has been documented, and as the scads of intel experts attest to: torture does not work. does. not. work.
what it does do: it makes america less secure and makes it more likely that our own troops will be tortured. those on the front lines in the "war on terrorism" have stated, point blank, that the abu graib and gitmo scandals are some of the best source of propaganda used by islamic militants to recruit
said differently: we are doing al qaeda's bidding by torturing.
said more inflammatory: william kristol is helping al qaeda recruit.
So in one breath, "this all ended years ago, so why tell people now?" in the next breath, "you've let the enemy know what we are going to do to them."
They take such smug satisfaction in uttering self-negating nonsense and then expect everyone to just play along with their meme.
That goes for media warfare also.
and tell everyone how innocent they are.
it's not a surprise we're fucked up as a society.
I've discovered that. I've no intention of singing along with all the mitches of the world for much longer that's for certain!
So maybe if that Iraqi reporter threw soft shoes?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
92 and a half pair to be effective?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
Why would the Justice Department be sending memos to other countries at war?
Being careful with memos does not affect the brutality of torture. When you're wrong, it doesn't matter how pretty a memo is.
but if you are wearing a $2000.00 suit and you justify torture, it must mean it's okay.
Ah. The ol' Wealthy People gambit. Different set of rules for the 'ruling class'. Sounds about right.
Then they shouldn't mind be subjected to it themselves.
They didn't fly planes into buildings. They just authorized and/or condoned the torture of other human beings. Don't you see the difference? (sorry for the sarcasm, but its just in case you didn't get your daily dose. I'm having a real problem with the stupidity of it all. We'll sue a Ham sandwich in this country but go after torturers? NO way! If you've ever been on the receiving end of a nonsense lawsuit, you know what I mean.)
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
That Ham sandwich tried to effing KILL my father!!!! I won't let it get away with that!! I'll hunt that ham sandwich down and eat it dead or alive!!!
Be sure to dunk it underwater every 4 hours and keep it in a box for 30 days before you eat it. It may know where the other ham sandwiches are hiding.
Mayo instead of water and just keep it in the fridge?
It must be a very small fridge, with insects. I'll check the memo about the mayo.
..do you have any grey poupon?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
I think "poupon" is one of the still forbidden tortures, unless you're into that sort of thing.
;)
..are so happy about the memos and the torture because they think they're getting some kind of retribution for 9/11. Obama won't prosecute the torturers because that would be retribution(?).
That's Irony, yes/no?
Its so stupid.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
protecting America from all the evil swarms of hoodlums waiting to strike at any given moment and disrupt our trips to the mall and food courts.
I thought it was when it rains on your wedding day, or when you, for some ungodly reason, have 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife.
..you see a child in the street so you stop, actually jam on the brakes and stop, to avoid a catastrophe and the child's family sues you for his injuries.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
and I jam on the brakes! I've practically thrown passengers through the windshield braking for squirrels.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Funny how these people are able to get more worked up over Clinton’s peter than Bush’s torture.
was rendering the Cons irrelevant they had to resort to a coup in 2000 to "win" remember.
Never gonna forget either.
"Why these clowns can't manage to bring the same reasoning to this debate is beyond me."
They aren't getting paid by fox to bring reasoning, they are paid to bring right wing propaganda.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
this is propagandafotainment.
?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
a "battle of the wills" until people end up a bunch of worthless babbling invalids.
You're tellin me....that faux noise...is DELIBERATELY trying to change
public perception of bushco's torture policy, and torture in general, that they're using lies, half-truths in order to deceive us?
I'm shocked...SHOCKED I SAY!
Seriously...I'm not really shocked by this.
Throw a shoe at him?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
182 more.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
That, folks, is how one reichwing propagandist, Chris Wallace, hands the bullshit baton to the next reichwing propagandist, William Kristol.
Note the effortless way Wallace frames the dichotomy: "how brutal" versus "how careful." First, the negative side is blunted by reducing the description from intentional, planned torture to mindless brutality, surely nothing that could possibly be planned from above...at worst, an unfortunate bit of over-enthusiasm. Second, the opposite side is completely exonerated with the word, "careful." Sounds so meticulous, so...caring. As if Bush's torturers were being _careful_ not to cause any real, lasting damage. All they did was waterboard one guy six times per day for a month. All they did was bash helpless prisoners against brick walls. All they did was lash children to chairs, then lock them for hours in a lightless cage with crawling insects. But they did so... _carefully_.
As scripted, Wallace's "how careful" becomes the first phrase of Krystol's answer, allowing the phrase to sink in. How careful.
As always, I am convinced that all these neocon fascists are war criminals. Further, I guarantee that I could persuade them to confess not only their many crimes, but that they are, in fact, witches.
Well, if they weigh the same as a duck....
I keep thinking about that guy in Abu Greb,with primal simian like fear stamped on his face being terrorized by a snarling dog straining at the end of it's leash(which is held a blue surgical glove clad clenched fist)and imagining Kristol's own smug face over the original.
The stress poses and naked pyramids.The simulated drowning.
I also think about the danger this blithe acceptance of "enhanced interrogation" poses for American troops and their allies.
After all,whats good for the Goose is good for Gander...nyet?
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
"We have laws on the books that don't allow policemen to beat confessions out of people in the United States for a reason. Why these clowns can't manage to bring the same reasoning to this debate is beyond me."
Considering the emotional level of the Bush Administration and its conservative co-conspirators, I doubt if it was every about confessions or clues to finding terrorists. This was and is nothing more than an excuse to extract physical revenge.
it was to extract false confessions to justify the invasions.
What horrible christians are at fox news.
They scream about what was done to "Americans" yet have no problems turning around and torturing other human beings. I hope the viewers realize that fox news can turn their "hate" on anybody that does not agree with them. No one is safe when you declare other humans less then animals.
No wonder the rest of the world hates us.
Diane
or they would not be on television on Sunday morning.
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
In my dream world, we pass a law for rethug politicians and media people, so when they are convicted of a crime they no longer have to go to jail. They're merely waterboarded 183 times. For each crime they are guilty of. Oh, and maybe throw in some nude, cold, sleep-deprived time in a box, as well.
It's no big deal, right? It's not torture, right?
Heads are banged into walls very very slowly and carefully.
People are suffocated and drowned with the utmost of tenderness.
Prisoners are kept naked in freezing cold and deprived of sleep for days on end in a manner that can only be described as loving and gentle.
I wish Kristol the very same level of serenity the next time he visits the dentist.
Perhaps the dentist can use a really delicate hammer on his teeth.
Can I recommend YOU see another dentist?
"Folks, this is not your father's Republican Party."
Joe Biden
The one I was recommending for Kristol would be the one played by Lawrence Olivier in "Marathon Man".
Nice...Can I recommend a hammer!?
How's about one o these beauties?
http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/s...
At Abu Graib and the Pentagon has video of it (according to Sy Hersch):
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/14/19375...
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
..I really don't want William Bloody Kristol or Hume to be tortured; I don't. I don't want anyone tortured. We didn't need to torture anyone to learn what we already know or could find out through more traditional intelligence gathering techniques. How could we even consider torture at all? It was unconscionable and it will happen again.
W screwed us up as a nation so bad. The Dems sat quietly by so as not to be considered 'soft' whatever that means. BHO was one of the only ones who did not support going into Iraq and for that he should be lauded. But I'm p!ssed at all of them right now for not doing the right thing. Th
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
nicely stated.
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
Kristol(nacht): How careful. I mean has any other country at war gotten memos from the Justice Department?
And I'd bet a pretty sheckel that the IDF got "legal" pass to invade Gaza and slaughter civilians there, too...
cops can do with you anything they want...
"We have laws on the books that don't allow policemen to beat confessions out of people in the United States for a reason. Why these clowns can't manage to bring the same reasoning to this debate is beyond me."
Laws may "prohibit" certain treatment, but as long as they figger they won't get caught, cops get around the law ALL the time...
Reich-wingers are harsh authoritarians with little or no empathy. Torture doesn't resonate with them, because they don't care about other sentient beings.
The world invest in us in part because we are moral. They buy our T bills in part because we are moral.
In exchange for that confidence we play leader and world cop, it's expensive.
The world expects us to do so as opposed to say Russia, Germany or France. The high moral ground equips us to do so. It is a thin line...when abused...imho
Then we can follow the intelligence to Ailes and the Carlyle Group and then follow the emails and phone calls to the Abrammoff lobbying and the we can torture them some more and find out who "Really" is funding the PNAC profiteers and identify if there were any quid-pro quo going on in our government. Because we're a country of laws, not just men, and every crime must be rooted out with efficiency and ruthless pursuit of justice.
Put Kristol under the water. Hume should be sent to the Rack. Wallace placed over an open flame. O'Reilly can deal with the dogs.
Forced nudity? How about RUsh Limbaugh or Karl Rove?
...on a second thought, forget that image.
does that mean it's okay for captured American POWs to be tortured?
no it doesn't, but it happens. Do unto others as they do to you. Eye for and eye. Jessica was tortured when she was captured, do you turn the other cheek, I SAY HELL NO. If it wasn't for some decent Iraq's she would be dead. A broken arm, broken thigh and dislocated ankle, and you say waterboarding is too much.
As in Lynch? The one where the entire story was proven to be FAKE! Don't forget the rest of the claptrap if you are going to repeat fake news. Saddam's men flew the planes into the World Trade Center, etc, etc.
Was never tortured. In fact, she told the press that the stories about her "rescue" embarrassed her.
woodguy
the reason why Billy is apopolectic at the thought of investigations is because his masters in a country far, far awawy are worried. if they have an investigations about torture then whats next? a thorough investigation of 9/11.can't have that
get on with it and throw Polosi in Jail. She was briefed and OK'd the torture.
Has everyone forgot about the men shown on the internet getting there heads cut off. Let me ask you, would you rather sit down down and talk with those men to get answers or waterboard the hell out of them to find out who did it.
police shoot first? What if they shoot the WRONG person? It would matter if it was you.
the CIA has been asked to declassify the innformation obtained as a result of the torture. That ought to be interesting stuff....
"How careful. I mean has any other country at war gotten memos from the Justice Department?"
The memos were obviously written as a CYA to protect those involved in the event their activities became public at a later date.
I've been practicing law for 15 years, and these kind of self-serving memoranda are common. You justify your present behavior based on a flawed interpretation of the law, and later point to your interpretation as evidence of your good faith.
Fox "News" - The Network of Treason
NOBODY 2012
Then you must support Fox News!
There is no choice. It has already been made for you.
It's Foxian Capitalism! Heh!
A basic rule of thumb is that if you want to find the truth about an issue, listen to Bill Kristol, and the OPPOSITE of what he says will be the case. That's the great thing about the guy, he's the perfect measure for the truth. He is more wrong more consistently than ANYONE I've EVER seen on television. He always makes wrong predictions, such as 'John McCain will be president'.
Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks had a great opinion on the memos. Basically if you can make the excuse to not investigate the memos for any other issue, that means it is ok.
'oh hey, don't arrest me for murdering my neighbor...I mean...that was like a couple years ago! that's the past man...get over it!'
Bernie Madoff - 'look I know I embezelled like billions or whatever, but like, national security is at stake if you give me a harsh sentence...so like, go easy'.
Not bloody likely.
I told my wife the same thing this morning, "Obama should listen to everything Kristol says and do the opposite, He'd be right every time because Kristol is always WRONG.
woodguy
Conversations Wallace and Kristol's very interesting, although not too prominent, but still provide the inspiration for me to read. Thank you.
http://coach-pur-se.com/cheap-shoes-for-women
"That train left a long time ago."
means
"My brain left a long time ago."
woodguy
even though this was a central conclusion of the most recent NIE explaining that under the Bush admin we were now *more* vulnerable to terrorist threats. This is because Abu Ghraib and Gitmo had done more to boost Al-Qaeda recruitment than anything they themselves could have done.
Brit needs to get some facts before pontificating on talk shows with the other know-nothings.
I smell the terrible stench of scared Reslugs sweating like the lying pigs they are and Faux Noise for their unbelievable desperation that gets worse everyday.
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