Eleanor Clift Shoots Down Rich Lowry's Talking Points on Health Care Reform
By Heather Monday Jul 27, 2009 9:30am
Eleanor Clift and Clarence Page (two actual liberals for once) beat back host John McLaughlin and pundits Rich Lowry and Monica Crowley's patented GOP talking points on health care reform on The McLaughlin Group. Clift gets in the best line of the day when Lowry tried to claim that a private option would put the insurance companies out of business. Lo and behold, Lowry and Co. seemed to be reading right off of this list of health care reform myths.
Lowry: That's the entire point. Unless this is stripped down radically, that's what will happen, and that's what the liberals want.
McLaughlin: Eleanor.
Clift: There will be 40 to 50 million new customers and a lot of those customers are customers that the private market doesn't even want, and there's plenty to go around that you can coexist with add-ons, and the government is providing, is going to provide a subsidy, a very basic plan and people will buy extras. The insurance industry will flourish but, I'm with Clarence. Since when is this about protecting the insurance industry? This is about protecting people's health care. They're making a ton of money. [..]
Lowry: Do you want your insurer to go out of business, Clarence? Do you want your insurer to go out of business? You want to get dropped from your employer coverage?
Page: My coverage has been going down, Rich, and so have a lot of other people's and I'm not in bad shape....
It was pretty amusing watching Clift and Page basically get Lowry and Crowley to admit the truth: The GOP only wants to protect the private insurance companies. Even if it led to something close to single payer as Clift notes, it would not mean the insurance companies are out of business. To the horror of conservatives and the conserva-Dems who are in the pockets of the insurance industries, it only would mean they'd be making a hell of a lot less money for basic health care and offering supplemental plans to those who could afford it instead.
It was also nice to see someone take one of these talking heads to task when they bring up the Lewin Group and let them know that "non-partisan" doesn't mean "unbiased". I noticed Lowry didn't have much of a response when Clift called him on that nonsense other than to try to keep talking and pretend he didn't hear her.
I'd personally prefer that Congress focused their energies on Single Payer (as we all know, including The Lewin Group, that makes the most sense)--as would everyone who contributes at this site--but that unfortunately is not the political climate we're living in right now. Until we clean up the legalized bribery going on with corporations and lobbyists buying and selling our members of Congress, this is going to be a huge uphill battle. Until that reform happens, if ever, we need to hold their feet to the fire to do the right thing.
No major political change in this country has come because politicians did the right thing out of the goodness of their heart. They've happened because people took to the streets, they marched, they stood up and they demanded that our elected officials do the right thing.
When you look at the history of the labor movement--which has been glossed over or completely ignored by our educational system--every single major change in the United States has happened because people were imprisoned, men, women and children were battered and killed and public outrage finally grew so high that the political class felt compelled to finally act.
The same can be said for the civil rights movement, the women's movement and every aspect of our history that led to the United States even having a middle class instead of just the ultra rich and the poor.
We've been moving backwards for way too long now, and too many have either forgotten or never learned in the first place just how many lives were lost, how much blood was shed, and how long and hard the struggles were to get to a point where everyone could be complacent and feel like what they have could not be taken away, and take that there is a middle class in this country for granted.
More people need to take the responsibility to let our government know that we're tired of the status quo in Washington. This is not business as usual. Let's not allow the Lowrys and Crowleys of the world to dominate this conversation.
I was happy to see Eleanor Clift not allow it on this week's McLaughlin Group.
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Roar! My corporate masters will be angry unless I shout you down! Roar!
It's show like this that made me turn to PBS for my news. It's so nice to watch Moyers, Rose, Newshour and the others without any of the sensationalism, sparring, shouting and celebrity worship that goes on in the corporate news.
After watching five minutes of regular TV news I want to punch someone. After watching a PBS news show I want to go out and make a positive difference.
Nangleator and Stupid Git,
thank you, you just made my comments for me :)
I'm glad someone else watches McLaughlin's show so that I don't have to. I don't think I've ever made it through a whole show.
Government run health care will be miserable but not as miserable as not having any health care.
It will motivate Americans to work harder to stay off of government run health care and stick with their private insurer.
A frightened and paranoid worker is a better worker.
this may very well save America.
I posted a reply to your comment at the bottom of this thread - before I read your comment ; )
France is proof of your claim - and proof to the contrary to many of the profit-protection-racket's "talking points". Read on if you like.
I haven't watched it in years (like 10-15), and when I see it now all I see is the establishment class, conventional wisdom of David Brooks and all the republigan liars and Bush thugs. It's a heaping pile of crap. Well, that's my opinion of PBS these days. Moyers is great but they let him do his thing because no one is listening, and, as for Rose, he is a big, phony shill (is that redundant?). Charlie is all fluff and butter.
McLaughlin introduces some weird-ass GOP talking point question. Conservative panelists get a chance to respond, but when any slightly liberal panelist has their turn to respond, they must do so through a a barrage of three competing voices.
As the so-called moderator, McLaughlin should be keeping the interruptions down, but instead, he is often the worst offender.
Finally, even if the fallacy of the original question is demonstrated, McLaughlin has the final word, restating his ridiculous question as though it were proved.
Like "Crossfire" the show is detrimental to both one's physical and mental health, which is why I told The McLaughlin Group, "Bye-Bye!"
I can't help but think of the old Dana Carvey SNL skits based on the McLaughlin Group. By the end of the skit he'd be shouting down "guests" after they managed to squeak out a word or two.
These sorts of shows with basically constant interrupting and shouting really stress me out. Exhausting.
A robust, single-payer solution is the ONLY way to resolve the health insurance crisis in this country. With a working public system, private insurance would be USELESS because they cannot compete with a non-profit government program. We must remember that insurers are NOT in the business of providing healthcare; rather they are in the business of taking in premiums and paying out as little as possible in order to reap the greatest profit.
It is time to remove profit from the healthcare equation altogether and create a healthcare system that works for everyone.
Absolutely dead on. Any health care "reform" that keeps private insurers in business is no real reform at all. Watch. Any "public option" will be funds-starved by the industry-paid hacks in Congress and left to "cover" the uninsurables. You'll have no choice but to slink back to the parasites just to get ANY coverage at all. And don't even ask about the framework -- HIGH copays and deductibles, LOW coverage, OBSCENE drug costs (they've already written off access to generics and imports) will NOT BE AFFECTED. The gravy train rolls along. Happy payouts, everybody!
Give 'em a free taste - once we're hooked they jack up the price. It'll be a boon for them and we'll once more be pawns in the game of profit our nation's first-class citizens enjoy so much.
Be afraid of gov health system. If private was so competative, they are afraid because they will lose control because they are charging too much now even though they deny coverage to many conditions now and would lose control over their uncontrollable profits.
THEY (private) CAN'T COMPETE WITH FAIR COMPETITION.
well said, indeed.
"Until we clean up the legalized bribery going on with corporations and lobbyists buying and selling our members of Congress, this is going to be a huge uphill battle."
And I completely agree.
I second that!
In my opinion, lobbying is the biggest problem with US politics right now, period. Democracy is being lost to the corporations.
You'd never think that over 70% of the population supports a public option based on commentary from politicians and the media. Just too damn much money to be made.
.
Congress with the help of the Courts should prohibit corporations from wasting their shareholder dollars on lobbyists, or, better the American people should prohibit corporations from paying off our legislators.
Surrounded by lying ass Repukes and the very soft token Clarence Page. I don't watch that Conservative orgasm called The McLauglin group of GOP assholes unless O'Donnell's on. And John McLauglin aways agrees with any of Monica Crowley's positions...I think the old man wants to hit that.
because the don't have any control over debate. Everyone is interrupting and shouting over each other. I don't care if insurance companies lose some business because if they can afford to turn down business they don't need any more. Rich Lowrey is a punk and can never be taken seriously. There is no far left media when you see that even this network has been taken over by the right wing.
The McLauglin Group comes on here in Chicago at 6:30 Saturday evenings. I normally check it to see if a fighting progressive like O'Donnell is on the panel, sometimes I get reeled in.
Writes for the moonie Washington Standard and crowley has been fired from a prominent radio station in San Francisco for her inflamatory remarks. Why do we keep getting the same pundits that are nothing but shills for the right wing?
Shouting past each other as they try to jam in a stream of talking points, and then one of them unaccountably gets thirty seconds of wacky "me time" to spout a torrent of industry bullshit.
Tell me the "Money Hole" sketch doesn't nail these people:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/in_the_...
That one and the viewer ratings meters that allow pundits to pander to viewers in realtime are brilliant. With their new "TV News" segments, The Onion is fast approaching The Daily Show in brilliance once more. Though, like Stewart being named America's most trusted newsman, it is a true shame that our news is so bad in this country that we turn to comedy for a taste of actual news.
..the Yellers and Screamers Group. For a seemingly bunch of intelligent people, they really don't know how to have an intelligent discussion on world affairs. Tony Blankley was awful, Pat Buchanan, well..'nuff said, Monica Crowley, puh-leaze! But I did like Eleanor Clift even though she was the ultra-liberal of the bunch; she seemed to make the most logical of arguments (even as polarized as she is) and she would make her point against very loud adversaries. I don't watch the show any more much the same way, I don't watch "Kiss the right's sphincter" with David Gregory any more.
But what a great smackdown - "Who are you trying to protect?"
Let's just send that to every member of Congress. And, just remember, they're taking the summer off so if you don't have health care very soon, you may never have it ever! I'll remember that they took this summer off next time I'm in the voting booth. I hope there's a Progressive candidate on the ballot and not just R, D, I, L or C but a big "P" for Progressive! I used to never want to vote for anyone with an R after their name; now I don't want to vote for any of the bastards who call themselves my representative. If you're my representative, start REPRESENTING DAMMIT!
Pinky and the Brain called them the McLoudness Group.
..has the Brain taken over the world yet? I haven't missed that have I? Gosh, I hope not!
You tell me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIaQKnzQzj4
Can you imagine what Thanksgiving must be like in the McLaughlin household? No one's going to be dozing off in front of the TV after dinner with all that shouting and yelling going on.
to shoot down the Republican talking points. They are all reading from the same Frank Luntz script, which we have all read and have had time to formulate responses to. Unfortunately for Republicans, this is all they have.
I have had a lot of fun over at Reuters Blogs destroying the usual wingnut posters who are spouting the same one-liners. (Rationing, bureaucrats, taxes, government takeover, etc.) Their frustration is becoming apparent, as they have quit trying to argue the facts and are now just calling me a socialist. Very entertaining.
I really despise Monica Crowley. She's better looking than Ann Coulter, but she is as opportunistic ans cynical as Sean Hannity. If Obama brought about world peace tomorrow, Monica Crowley would be on the radio the next day, talking about how this is a problem for Democrats.
I have since I first saw her on Ron Reagan's show. She is one of the dumbest there ever was. I can't stand to (and haven't) listened to her in many years, but I'm sure she hasn't changed a twit, I mean a bit.
"They" own everything now. "The continual consolidation of wealth and power into higher, tighter, and righter hands" has pretty much been achieved.
to support the extravagant lifestyles of the top 0.5 percent on this planet. It's not a good situation.
My dad called this show "the yellers." I find it hard to listen to them. Good for Clift and Page, though. What's sad is that 90% or more of conservative pundits are deceptive or just flat out lie. If they were actually offering a different plan, that would be one thing. But the national "debate" isn't on problem-solving; it's often between objective reality and corporate lies. Add to that how corrupt many Dems are and it's a wonder any progress can get made. But we'll keep trying...
I thought it was just Dick's snotty nose kid but Eleanor can't start a sentence without them interrupting her.
How do we stop the breeding.
When the planet becomes so over crowded life (as we knew it) becomes unsustainable
Cue Paul Ehlrich....
Funny enough, if you google around for him, conservatives and hard-core "capitalism or die" nuts slam him as being too apocalyptic, saying that he was wrong about everything.
I think they just haven't waited long enough. His basic premise, that human population will come under control because of the laws of finite resources, is sound, and people who refuse to recognize that aren't looking at a long enough timeline.
Soylent Green.
Pass it on.
Have you only just noticed this? I realized about 3-4 years ago that the Right discovered that, when on these cable shows, they can forego answering questions in favor of delivering talking points, interrupt (and openly show contempt for) their opposing guests, insult the media to its "face", and otherwise behave like the kind of guest you'd never invite back to your party. They started doing this when they realized that there were NO CONSEQUENCES. They never get called out on their assh*lery and they always get asked back... because these days, it's all about ratings and "access", and the Republicans have a circle-the-wagons attitude that says, if you aren't sufficiently deferential to your right-wing guests, you'll never get ANY right-wing guests. And it works...
The dangers of government controlled health care:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aclS1pGHp8o
Damned long-haired intellectual hippies and their socialist evil ways!
.
What people don't seem to realize is that privatization, greed and capitalism have resulted in the best healthcare in the world! For example, did you know that the nation's largest health insurance corporation is working on a cure for cancer *right now*? Well, not actually *working on* it, but they're involved with the process, because somehow, their capitalistic structure emits "pony-rays", which, through a mysterious process that no conservative need explain, produce good things for everyone, including (surely, someday!) a cure for cancer! Oh, boy!
So remember, it's never good to interfere with the profits of any corporation, ever, because corporations produce magical energies that improve our standard of living. Just accept it! Would George Will lie?
..I have a friend who's working on a novel. He's describing the plot by Corporate America to take all of our money and make it theirs like that's their business: mining Money from America, which is kind of what is happenin' in America right now anyway.
Imagine if someone developed a pill that would promote "wellness" and actually, if taken daily, over a short period of time, would cure Cancer. Imagine that it could be made from all natural ingredients in some easy fashion and the discoverer decided to give the pills away for $10 a bottle, one bottle lasts a month. How long would it be before:
Corporate America attacks the discoverer with vile rumors and innuendo?
The Government of America arrests the discoverer and charges him with selling drugs without a license even though they ain't drugs he's whippin' up?
People on the right wait to see if the pills are really a Left Wing conspiracy and start to die in greater numbers than there left counterparts who have embraced the pills?
There, a great American Love Story!
Yeah! Where did MC come from? She must be daft! It was as if she was more worried about the insurance companies than people! Do all these jouralist make millions? I see MC and many others who must be the ones with great insurance plans. I feel my plan can be taken away with a stroke of a pen or the delete button on the computer! I'm with Clarence on this one. I hope MC never has a condition the insurance company will not cover. She would change her tune quick. Does she think the public is lazy and stupid?
..until she has to really count on it!
can private and public healthcare options exist side by side? I don't see how it can work?
Private insurers will do everything in their power to kill the public side of healthcare.
Why don't they ever point out that the Lewin group is owned by United Health Care. The GOPers always claim "the lewin group found this out"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
The spineless Rich Lowry (sarah palin lover) spewed out the name in this clip.
..the words, "Lord Voldemort" to the GOP.
"More specifically, the Lewin Group is part of Ingenix, a UnitedHealth subsidiary that was accused by the New York attorney general and the American Medical Association of helping insurers shift medical expenses to consumers by distributing skewed data. Ingenix supplied UnitedHealth and other insurers with data that allegedly understated the "reasonable and customary" doctor fees that insurers use to determine how much they will reimburse consumers for out-of-network care."
Monica says the GOP has plans for our health care that are based on competition and insurance companies. Are they going to regulate the insurance industry with oversight like they provided for the financial world? hahaha what a joke.
she should be very familiar with her insurance company. She is nothing but a shill for any GOP talking point available.
Even if the insurance industry was regulated, some nut job like Regan will come in and deregulate like he did with businesses! Oh, they will regulate themselves. Right! Not!! Free market!
He didn't care if my husband got the best care possible when he was being treated for cancer. My secondary insurer wouldn't ok my husband receiving chemo in a new way, since that made a dandy loophole to hide behind. The treatment has been around forever, but the doctor wanted to do it in a different order. Medicare, the primary, said yes. My secondary insurer said no. So, we're hoping that the other type of treatment holds, even though he had a very aggressive type of cancer. So,worrying about whether the government plan is good or bad doesn't even figure into my equation.
when this blond lady talks everybody shuts up. But when Eleanor or Clarence speaks they talk and laugh all over them. I personally couldn't understand everything that Eleanor said. But that is a Republican tactic. They don't want a clear understanding of what anyone that goes against them to be heard.
Some vampire slayer needs to drive a stake through the heartless blood sucking meat pump of the health insurance industry before the sun sets again.
The screaming and hyperbolic bullshitery just elevates my blood pressure so I have to rely on you to distill the debate for me. Eleanor is the only one I can stand, but I always wonder why she subjects herself to those assholes.
Now I watch Moyers, Lehrer, Ifill, Brancaccio, and on most evenings Chris, Keith, and Rachel. I listen to Talk of the Nation on NPR.
I was bankrupted by United Healthcare when I got my bipolar diagnosis. First they raised my premium to $1,000 a month for just me, then they dropped me, claiming my bipolar disorder was an undiagnosed prior condition, since it is a genetically passed on disorder.
Every time some wingnut politician mentions the Lewin group, the interviewer should point out that they are owned of the private insurance company that bankrupted so many citizens and forced them out of the private system of insurers.
... there was a time when there WAS only one not for profit healthcare provider... BlueCross/BlueShield. (BC/BS) It worked fine up until the other insurance companies wanted a piece of the pie.
Our congress let them do that while BC/BS was still a not for profit organization. Of course the other ins. companies took the healthy subscribers and left BC/BS with the sicker high maintenance subs. After time BC/BS had to be a profit ins. provider... and that was the beginning of the end of good inexpensive healthcare insurance.
Did that republicanzi guy say liberals want private insurures to fail? Another lie i'm afraid.
I'm a liberal and yet i'm routing for the private insurures in the new playing field. If they feel some stiff competition they might tighten their belts and provide some real service.
Finally!! The White House and every liberal talker has to say the same thing and start pulling out examples, one after another, as many different ones as possible, of how regular Americans are getting screwed by insurance companies.
Maybe it would just be better to focus on one or two examples so that the simpletons (the people who think that McConnell's example, as bullshit as it is, is how the Canadian system is indicative of what goes on there) don't get confused.
And I really wish that SOMEONE would pick up on that not-too-subtle difference in this debate.
is for the elimination of private health insurance carriers, at least in the form they exist today where they deny benefits, etc., whether you call it single-payer or not. We should keep paying into a plan but only the doctor and patient decide with rates established as in other market. The message is simple: the industry (i.e. private insurance) can't be trusted, and we, being a free country, can eliminate that which is not for in the best interest of the country so long as it is not a fundamental right and there is no fundamental right to run a private health insurance company. It's right there in the Constitution -- in order to form a more perfect union -- we gave Congress the right to make all laws necessary and proper.
Mainly rich people think this is a bad idea.
The dishonesty of a few of the video "debate" participants was hard to stomach - "it's about the money, honey", or maintaining huge profits off the sick and dying, is about the simplest way to sum up motivations for the same - but one "talking point" I can personally dismiss, with proof: Public health care will kill private health care.
The most ironic of examples: France. The French government, after taking "taxes" through social security charges, covers most health care costs, but it is limited. If you want to be covered for higher treatments such as orthodental correction or eye-correction surgery, you have to take out a "mutuel" insurance program run by the private sector - and the choice of companies for the latter are many. In fact the private sector is growing: only decades ago there was no other option than the government program.
If I had to shout "Let me finish" as often as Eleanor Clift, week after week, I'd have blown those asswipes' brains out long ago. I don't know how she gets through a show without having an aneurysm or going postal.
my gawd...what yell fest... screaming over each other...i couldnt watch the whole thing...
There is an election coming in 2010 and every Representative in the nation is up for vote. 1/3 of the Senators are up for election - "LET ME FINISH! SCUSE ME MY TURN!" Cute! Be an EDUCATED Voter2010
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