Dana Bash Centers Canadian Health Care Story Around Mitch McConnell Talking Point
By Heather Tuesday Jul 07, 2009 5:00pm
CNN's Dana Bash does a report on the Canadian health care system, and as its center piece she features the person Mitch McConnell has been using in his Senate floor speeches as an example of what's wrong with Canadian health care. How many similar stories of people in the United States being denied coverage because they don't have any health insurance at all does anyone think CNN could be doing if they went out and looked?
In fairness, Bash does point out those that disagree with the generalizations about the system, and that the Democrats are not trying to get universal health care here in the United States. That said, seeking out the person McConnell has been citing in his Frank Luntz talking points on health care as the main portion of the segment strikes me as nothing short of Republican propoganda.
As our own Jon Perr has more on McConnell fear mongering about the Canadian health care system:
In his demagoguery regarding President Obama's health insurance proposals featuring a "public option," Senator McConnell trotted out horror stories from Canada and the UK to illustrate "health care denied" by "government-run" systems. But as the New York Times suggested, McConnell's examples of Canadian Shona Holmes and Briton Bruce Hardy in essence made his opponents' case for them:
What Mr. McConnell did not disclose was that Ms. Holmes paid for her treatment, at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, Arizona, on her own - an option that is available to patients with financial resources all over the world regardless of their nation's health insurance system...
As for the case of Mr. Hardy, the particulars seem to make it hard to tell how his situation differed from the countless Americans who battle their private insurers every day for access to the newest, most advanced and most expensive treatments.[....]
Despite Mitch McConnell's grandstanding, Americans' health care is frequently denied - even when they are already paying for it.
And so it goes. Back in 1993, GOP propagandist William Kristol famously mobilized his Republican colleagues, warning that Bill Clinton' success with health reform could lead to a Democratic majority for a generation. His talking point then was "no crisis." 16 years later, Mitch McConnell is frightening Americans with dark visions of a future system where health care is denied, delayed and rationed.
The future is now.
Transcript below the fold.
BLITZER: The federal government's role in health care is under the microscope right now as President Obama pushes for health care reform by October. Dana Bash has been looking into Canada's system which covers everyone and is free but there are drawbacks. Let's go to Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, when the Senate's top Republican speaks out against the government-run health insurance plan, he says it could lead to government control of the health care system, and he warns the U.S. could end up like Canada, with treatments delayed or denied. So we came here just north of the border to Ontario to see for ourselves and separate rhetoric from reality.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Going to feed the fish?
BASH (voice-over): For Shona Holmes, simple pleasures, playing with her dog, walking in the garden, are a gift. Four years ago, she was diagnosed with a brain tumor, told if it wasn't removed, she could go blind or die.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No doubt at all.
SHONA HOLMES, ONTARIO RESIDENT: I realized right after the surgery how bad my vision was.
BASH: She is Canadian but for her surgery, she went to the U.S., because it would have taken four to six months just to see specialists in Canada's government-run health care system. The only option here.
HOLMES: All my life, I lived in this country with public health insurance, and I always thought that I would be OK, that everything would be fine.
BASH: So this is basically all of the surgery. Her bills at the Mayo Clinic where she was treated totaled $100,000. She borrowed from family and friends.
HOLMES: It's having dinner with my friends, I know how much money I owe them.
BASH: Republicans in Washington are seething on her story and other accounts from Canada to warn against government involvement in health care. Dr. David Zelt is chief of staff at Ontario's Kingston general hospital. GOP Senate leader Mitch McConnell singled out Kingston as exhibit a of staggering delays in Canadian care. We played his speech. SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Knee replacements. At Kingston General, the average wait is about 340 days.
BASH: His response, McConnell is exaggerating.
DR. DAVID ZELT, KINGSTON GEN. HOSP. CHIEF OF STAFF: Average time to get a knee replacement here is 91 days.
BASH: But he does admit in Canada's system where the government covers everyone, there are limits and shortages. Some patients do have to wait.
ZELT: I'm not going to say we don't have issues, but again, if you take the other side of the coin, these patients have access.
BASH: Despite Shona Holmes' horror story, Canadian officials insist most patients with life-threatening problems are treated quickly. Doug Wright can attest to that. He has cancer, a tumor on his leg. He's got the money to get care in the U.S. but says there's no reason.
DOUG WRIGHT, TORONTO RESIDENT: I've not had to wait. I've seen some of the best specialists in the country.
BASH: Though taxes are high here, he and others remind us Canadian health care, available to all, is free.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, to be clear, no Democratic health care plan now on the table calls for the kind of government-run system they have here in Canada. But consider this statistic. All Canadians have health coverage. That's 33 million people, compared to 47 million, that's just the number of uninsured in the U.S. -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Dana Bash in Canada for us. Thank you.
Login or Register to post comments.
Two minutes into the piece I knew she was paid off.
According to TRNN Canadians pay an Average 35% TAX and they get a Decent Health Care System for ALL, we pay 32% and Get in return : The best "NATIONAL DEFENSE SYSTEM" With more than 160 Military Bases worldwide.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/node/6916
Nobody speaks anymore about Dental Care!
Dental care seems a lot more expensive than health care itself for most people. I'm expected to go for dental work that will cost well over $200, even with (some) insurance coverage.
One of the best Simpson's episodes ever!
It was suggested that I pay $5000 for dental work if I want to keep my teeth. Not going to happen - no dental coverage, no job.
I can relate to the high cost of dental work. Several years ago a root canal and porcelain crown cost me $800-- after the insurance paid for 50%! A couple of years later I paid $800 to have THREE crowns done in Mexico, including root canal for one tooth. With all the drug violence in Mexico now, I read that few Americans are crossing the border for dental work-- and at least in one border city, the dental clinics closed down.
I think the cost of dental care skyrocketed once dental insurance became widely available.
Too bad Moore's film came out so early....I suggest that Mitch McConnell and Bash watch just the first half. Horror stories to more than top anything I've seen from Canada.
always claim you have to wait for health care in canada. well so many don't get any health care at all here in america so how's that for waiting??
as the ultimate in waiting.
even with insurance. Good luck getting any care at all with "out of network" physicians.
Pretty sad state of affairs when alleged "news" organizations purposefully misinform the public, in order to pimp for a vested interest, in order to knowingly screw their customers, the audience. Tell me again, CNN, why I should tune into your propaganda fest?
With no health insurance (and yes, I am employed), last year- after suffering with pain for weeks I finally dragged myself to a clinic for uninsured/poor. I was sent for tests and diagnosed with a condition that required major surgery. Indigent funding covers tests and hospitalization (saving me from about $15,000 in medical debt), but it doesn't cover doctor bills. The surgeon's office worked out a payment plan for me, but the anesthesiologist required me to pay up front before surgery... I asked, "What if I can't come up with the money?" They said, "Then you won't have the surgery." Since the condition wasn't life-threatening (but I was in so much pain I could barely walk or function), apparently they weren't obligated to provide the service. Such a humane system we have.
I wish "Sicko" were premiering and getting (even the corporate MSM) media attention NOW.
When she says, "to separate rhetoric from reality"......And if there's one thing that policy should never be made on, it's flimsy anecdotal evidence.
I live in Ontario. I know of nobody that has to wait 4-6 months for treatments on their eyes, and know of NOBODY that has to wait almost a full year for a knee replacement. My mother in law had both hers done in less than a year. If the American media and the American government are going to blatantly lie to Americans, at least use somebody's system of health, that does not have access to the lies being told. Come on CNN. Compare to Buckfuckistan's Universal Healthcare, or someplace nobody has ever heard of. Canadians will call you on your bullshit.
absolutely right. i lived in canada and the anti stories are pure crap.
It's a Republican thing, they can't help it.
Bottom line, Mitch McConnell and Dana Bash both have good health care, so how the fuck do they know what it's like for those of us who don't?
We sure as hell know they don't care about who may suffer or die for their lies.
I don't even want to argue about their propaganda, what's the point? It isn't as if they have ANY credibility.
But, hey, Canada's ok. It's not their fault we let these jackasses take for themselves while they tell us we don't want what they're taking. They only get away with it cause we let them.
Not for life-threatening surgery or emergencies. God, what a load of horseshit.
The average wait-time for ELECTIVE surgery in Australia is 30 days. Which is a lot shorter than NEVER.
A journalist recently spent time in France and the Netherlands to find out about their health care... the report was glowing. One criticism a Dutch woman had about their health care was how long they had to wait in the ER. She told the journalist they sometimes had to wait 2-3 hours before being seen. When he told her people in the US often waited an entire day- and sometimes weren't seen until the next day- in American hospitals, she didn't believe him.
... because nobody has ever waited in the US of A.
Although the framing gives an interesting insight into the mind of the people who are against universal coverage: it seems some people seem more concerned about their waiting times being affected, than whether or not everybody is covered.
I can't say I am surprised that is the angle CNN decided to take give we have some supremely self centered assholes among our citizenry.
without a drive-thru window, is just not fast enough! You order a Big Mac Combo in one place, then drive cross the street for a Double Whopper Knee Replacement and a side order of Eye Surgery!
Our system might be far from perfect, but when needed it is there. My dear old mom just spend 2 months in a Canada hospital, 40 days of it in ICU, followed by 3 weeks of physiotherapy.
If my choice was the US system or Canadian system... Canadian baby!
is that Canadians deep down would prefer the profit driven, greedy, corrupt system in the US, to what we have now. Hey, if you lie enough, apparently voters will buy it.
There has to be a reason most industrialized nations favor a public option and not the US model?
US polling shows a majority of US citizens favor a public option as well.
I couldn't imagine being sick while unemployed and having to choose my health over a roof over my head.
because they are "usafe." Truth of the matter is that most of the drugs sold in this country are manufactured in China in filthy fungus riddled basements.
For example: Over 85% of vitamin C is made in China. Look on your vitamin bottles. Most of them will say, "distributed" by a pharmaceutical company whose address will be in the US. You can be assured that they are not made here from clean and well inspected ingredients. The drugs that you get with prescriptions will never tell you where they come from. Never. I wonder why not? If they have nothing to hide, why not tell us where they come from?
Or ANYBODY, out of the millions of Canadians, who was willing to stand up for the Canadian system?
That story in itself is quite amazing. I'm pretty certain that if your mum had been in the States, even with private insurance, she'd be paying off the bill for that stay for the rest of her life.
Too bad Dana, in all of her IN-DEPTH reporting, didn't uncover a single story like yours. That must just mean that your story is an anomaly and the Canadian system is really as horrible as she paints it.
We need people to make signs and start following stupid fascist whores like Dana around protesting their complete lack of ethics. And maybe throw a few tomatoes at them too.
If they are going to work for the Orwellean fascsits, then let them eat tomatoes.
I am sick of the Orwellean corporate fascist media. Between those bastards and the Supreme Court, we haven't even begun the battle to change this country.
Hell, we still have to get our side (bluedogs) in line.
I still know idiots who call CNN the "Communist News Network" and claim it's very liberal... do they even watch this BS? Obviously not, they're glued to Fox all day.
are about to get politically blind-sided and they don't even know what's coming....
The American People will be addressing this issue very soon...
Stay tuned for updates....
Abbybwood, R.N.
I hope you are right.
If Obama thinks that 1990's Clinton style republican-lite is going to work now, he is TOTALLY mistaken!
from my family and friends, they would probably say the same thing that the insurance companies say. Piss off and die
our Yukon health care if great. Many Alaskans wish they had it. You would be fine to copy our system. The rich would still be able to get what they want.
of which Dana Bash is the Mrs. have become paid GOP shills for the Republican aggenda. Watching hubby on State of Union quickly turned unbearable soon after the his Sunday debut. His typical voter cafe interviews make anyone even slightly left leaning loose their lunch. If you look life a farmer, collect guns and only where plaid flannel shirts, you too can set down for a breakfast chat with John King. It also helps if you think Bush was a great President.
that there is any wait times whatsoever in Canada, is because the American Healthcare head crooks, come up here and bribe our doctors and nurses away. At my daughter's nursing college, there are always American Healthcare people there trying to buy them into moving there for the dollars. Doctors move there for the dollars. That is the only flaw in our system. They allow the leeches from your system, to come up here and recruit.
Money Money Money
The most common complaint in Canada is that the provinces entered into health care with a 50/50 cost sharing agreement with the feds that has since turned into about a 18/82, as is the case with Ontario.
This has caused new nurse hires to be part time jobs and doctors to be faced with capped charges for services rendered.
Looking at paying off up to seven years of educational loans, we almost force our new doctors and nurses to look south of the border where the most money is.
If there is a problem, it lies with the federal government.
46,000,000 uninsured is all you need to know. That's disgraceful.
It sure is shocking that there are more Americans alone that are uninsured than there are Canadians with a public health plan. Thanks a lot Richard Nixon for creating less health care! Your recorded tapes that are in the movie "Sicko" clearly expose where the US health care system likely went wrong!
.
Yes, I guess many people who have insurance are still getting routine checkups and sometimes treatment, but they are at the mercy of their provider-- the premiums, copays, and deductibles keep going up. And the provider makes the decisions as to what tests, treatments, procedures, and medications can be prescribed. If you haven't watched Sicko, google Dr. Linda Peeno's testimony to Congress about causing someone's death, denying services, while working for an HMO.
If the Dems' health care "reform" turns out to be forcing everyone to have insurance, I want no part of it.
Mitch McConnell's behind is covered by a Single Payer Government
Medical Plan for the rest of his life. I haven't heard a squeak or a complaint out of either side of his mouth. He's ambidextrous that way. If fact, he is gifted, because he can talk out of both sides of his mouth at the same time without dribbling. All the elected representatives have the Government Funded Single Payer Plan. Now these bums voted themselves this plan so I know it must be very good and serves them well.
If the plan works for them, I’m sure it will work for me! I want the option to select “The Bitch McConnell Government Single Payer Medical Plan” for me.
Of course, he won't care, because he's rich and he'll just go out an buy private insurance.
But at least then, he'll have some idea of the shit we have to deal with.
I think we need to start calling out MSM "reporters" who may be whoring out to health insurance companies. Remember that Washington Post blow up a couple days back where they got caught whoring out for health insurance companies? Don't you think the rest of the MSM is doing it as well?
I keep hearing these same bull shit stories about the downsides of the European and Canadian systems. If there was even an attempt to quantify the mass human suffering and death occurring on our side of the fence, my opinion might be different. But then the media wouldn't be catapulting the propaganda.
I am calling out Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar from the Associated Press. Over this past weekend, he wrote an article offering weak criticisms of the European system and repeating the same bull shit talking points. His story appeared in the "Business" section of my AP news stories but not in the "Health" section.
For all these media elites suddenly offering in depth analysis of single payer that omit any mention of our human misery in the US, they should be required to disclose all of their contacts within the past two years with individuals from or associated with a health insurance company.
I smell payola.
You have corporate elite "catapulting the propaganda" to protect the wealth of other corporate elite.
I mean, Jesus, we're not bloody stupid. Most of us know a Canadian, and those of us who don't know an elderly person who sneaks cheap drugs across the border.
They must really think we're stupid. It's like they turn on a light and claim that it's daytime. We fucking know you're lying.
In the 90's we were probably more fooled about not having a national health care system, and Clinton was correct that health care costs would go up if nothing was done after 1993. Clinton is thereby a president who warned about rising health care costs in 1993 like Eisenhower warned against the military industrial complex in 1961.
Since Clinton's national health care initiatives failed in the 90's due to the health insurance lobbyists and the Harry & Louise ads, how can we expect Obama to fail (like what Limbaugh wants to see) with his overhaul on getting public health care options??
Great line. Turn on a light.....hehehehe.......
It's implied payola, as in, you won't be keeping a long-term job here (at the MSM) if you cross the corporacratic plutocracy.
The picture CNN, as shill for the health industry, keeps painting is that Canada has a government run health care system. It does not. We have a system involving Hospital Boards and private clinics that have the fees paid by government. Government does not run the facilities. The decisions about care are made by the doctor for all conventional procedures. Government may get involved in being challenged to add emerging or experimental procedures and resist doing so for reasons of excessive cost. How is that any different than any insurance scheme you have. So, no bureaucrat is involved in any decision about conventional care. Seems to work. We are healthier, live longer and do not have to profess to be wonderful in giving charity because people have to have charity for basic care. It astonishes us to see American campaigns to raise donations to help some kid. You do not see it here because the kid is already recuperating. The system does not provide free care. We pay for it through taxes. Our cost is much less than your cost of taxes and insurance. Saying we pay high taxes is intentional deception. Our tax load, less health care, is likely very similar to yours and with health care, often one third of a provincial budget, it remains less than your total. And additionally, some provinces have modest monthly fees amounting to possibly $1000 a year. How is it that Americans understand the need for tax supported public schools but somehow see tax supported health care as some kind of communist plot, particularly when the system you have is the most expensive and possibly worst in the western world? Claiming it is the best is speaking only to the fact there are some very good doctors and hospitals with people pretending innovation and discovery and exceptional excellence do not exist in pockets in all systems. If American health care is the best, why do many thousands of cash paying American customers come to Canada for their health care. No one mentions that our doctors and hospitals are independent and are happy to take in cash customers from elsewhere. Even our public schools do this. Funny thing for a socialist system, eh!
It will make no difference how or who we vote for,, The Global Empire or Power To Be in this country ,, will have them dancing to their tune...
I can not believe that Americans are sitting still for the BS and lies which is being propaganda to American on a daily basis..
What right does anyone in the government have to complain or attack countries like China , Iran and others because of their policies or treatment to their citizens. Face it we have no say and all the candidates do when they run for office is promise you anything and if elected give you BS and deceive.
American is no longer a democracy and this Global Empire is controlling the elected Democrats as well as the republicans. So there forth they are getting their policies pass and the h... with you and me.
When are we going to get tired of the abuse and BS thrown at us on a daily basis..
Obama is passing legislations which is no more then bones to keep his voters in line.. Or as the famous republican stated "Let them eat cake"..
We see where Kucinich is they are keeping his voice and bills under the table and on the shelves..
When are we going to heed Kucinich warning WAKE UP AMERICANS... And I say before it is too d... late..
Who really is in charge in the U.S.?
Gov't for Profit, by Profit, of Profit. How are you ever supposed to 'throw the bums out' when all you have to replace them with is more bums???
I'm a 46 yr old Canuck who's wife has recently been granted medical retirement after dealing with severe medical issues the past 3 years. Of those past 3 years I was able for 2 of them to take care of her at home and raise my 2 wonderful kids. We still have our house, the car, and the cats haven't suffered too badly from any lack of attention. This is Canada.
For the Criminal Cable Network (CNN), hampering the profits and bonuses of the healthcare industry is worse a crime than denying more than 40 million of your fellow citizens any kind of healthcare.
Up is Down, and Wrong is Right.
I really wish the best for all of you.
Cheers.
. . . It will be looted like the banks. A Republican will be elected in 2020 and push through a bizarre cascade of legislation that will place a small number of insurers in lucrative positions. Their stock will soar, then crash after an accounting scandal reveals fraud and customers and their survivors complain they were systematically denied covered or mis-diagnosed specifically to avoid the cost of treatment. A few doctors and hospital administrators will be indicted and a few thousand people reported dead from malpractice and nonfeasance. GOP leadership will then attack the public option as unworkable and communistic and demand that it be replaced by a health care finance system that allows people to take out (initially) low interest loans to fund health care services. Doctors are paid whatever comes to mind immediately and the dying and their families are anchored with crushing debt forever. ESPN opens a pay per view channel in which leukemia victims commit suicide in grisly and cinematically dramatic ways rather than burden their families with the apocalyptic debts attending their illness. GOP candidates hail this innovation in media as another 'win-win' example of the perfection of the free market. Praise!
How can you see into the future?
Insurers will write checks to Congress and the two major parties. They will do what the insurers tell them, rig the game against the polity and stuff the fish in the barrel for them. Other industries like finance will mine the desperation and fear of death for opportunities to profit. It's the American way. Manufacture hell and rule it for maximal profit. Aim into the barrel! FIRE! Hahahahahaha! Aim! FIRE! Who but an insane marxist islamofascist could question the infallibility of the marketplace to provide the best health care in the world?
to see what canucks think. What took them so long? My guess is that they had trouble finding a Canadian who is unhappy with our health care system.
As for Ms Holmes, she has grounds to file a lawsuit against her doctor(s) for such shameful incompetence. Cases like hers are the exception. It disgusts me that McConnell et al are using her in such a fashion.
Single Payer, baby! All the way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8yoSAiwY18&fe...
Yikes!
In my entire life, I've not heard one Canadian complain about our health care system.
It's about time we or the Republicans get over the phobia of socialized medicine. Truth be told, it apparently works in other industrialized nations where patients pay almost nothing (except thru their taxes) to get help, even if there is such a wait period. Waiting can be better than saying "not gonna happen!"
The album that Reagan came out with about 30 years ago, is in reality, the contrary from his sentiment speaking out against socialized medicine.
We leave that for American Republicans.
Pain, misery, suffering.
They've managed to turn it into about the only growth industry left in their country.
My father-in-law died because of malpractice in February.
My mother-in-law, who is a very vibrant 70 year old (everybody thinks she's in her 50's, and she still plays kickball with my little ones), was nearly killed a few years ago from infection; because of an arrogant SOB MD who was too proud to admit one of his patients could get an infection after a simple appondectomy.
In fact, the only reason she did survive, was because of her excellent condition beforehand. Most 67 year olds would not have made it.
She spent the ENTIRE summer being treated and hospitalized.
"Republicans in Washington are seething on her story and other accounts from Canada..."
Hmm, were Republicans "seething" about accounts from the U.S. in Michael Moore's film "Sicko"???
ANY of us can find a case where a doctor has screwed up (for example, the guy in Florida who had the wrong foot reattached to the wrong leg). Does that mean the entire system is screwed up?
The only way this "investigative report" would be credible is if they actually interviewed ANY of the majority of Canadians who are happy with their healthcare system.
My folks suspected when we saw her ad on TV about "patient rights" they immediately thought that she had a lot of money to pay for "better" health care in the US, but now I see that she borrowed $100,000 from friends and family - so that's where she got it!
Chances are that she would be recompensated if she submitted the bills to OHIP.
There are so few details on her condition, making broad generalizations is dishonest on CNNs part but that's what they do.
Nevermind the doctor sewing on the wrong foot. How about the surgeon at Duke University Hospital that transplanted a Type A heart into a Type O recipient, and killed her? (cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/16/60minutes/main544162.shtml) A mistake that any high school biology student wouldn't make. A mistake that is twice as stupid, and twice as lethal as sewing a left foot onto a right leg. Why isn't CNN jerking off endlessly, using that as proof of how lousy health care is in the United States? Because it doesn't make for good ratings.
The entertainment-based news media in the United States is CRIMINALLY irresponsible in reporting anecdotes, instead of factual, scientific studies. Isn't it ironic that the United States is the only country that has a free press guaranteed by the Constitution, and yet gets the most pathetic news of any country. "News" that is designed, not to inform a rational, voting public, but to generate viewership for the sake of selling VIAGRA.
The American people are being asked to make an important decision about their future, and need to be informed of the facts. REAL facts, not anecdotes. How about looking at some real comparisons between the Canadian and U.S. healthcare systems, like this one?
openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1
Take a look at this letter from Benjamin Day of The Massachusetts Campaign for Single Payer Health Care to Bill Keller, editor of New York Times, BEGGING him to report facts and studies in the health care debate, rather than the standard bullshit "he said/she said" anecdotes that are designed to entertain. Not that it would do any good, but I wish somebody would send a letter like this to CNN, too.
openmediaboston.org/node/636
Great post. Thanks. And who do you think are the biggest advertisers on CNN? I don't have stats, but I would guess PHARMA (one of the big players in our corporacrap-tic plutocracy) is in the top 2 or 3, if not no. 1.
They quote the waiting times for knee replacement surgery where this is NOT an emergency situation, just like hip replacement. For something like brain surgery, there is much less waiting time, as I know from personal experience. I had a brain tumour removed in the year 2000 and ended up with no physical problems and NO DEBT. Sorry to burst your bubble Mr. McConnell.
How could that be? I wonder why Dana Bash had such a hard time finding someone who likes the Canadian system? (There's only about 30 on this page of comments.)
She probably could have tossed a rock over the border and hit somebody with a positive story on the Canadian healthcare system. But I guess she had to go where the story took her. That's what a reputable journalist does, I guess.
As an educator, we have had pay freezes for several years in order to keep our union insurance plan. Yes, our co-pays have gone up, and we now have to choose from doctors who are in the program, but almost all are.
We are one of the few who still have excellent health insurance in this coountry.
I also have four friends from Canada who I work with. Everyone of them loves our health insurance, but they would have NO problemm at all if we went to a Canadian system which they say is just as good.
JUST AS GOOD!
So, I am calling bullshit on the GOP, corporate MSM asshats.
I had a cyst on my brain stem compressing my cranial nerves and causing major pain (trigeminal neuralgia). The best surgeon in the world for the surgery to remove cysts like that one is in one of the Carolinas. I e-mailed his office with my MRI report to see if he could help. No problem. Just pay $80,000, plus the price of the hospital stay etc. I didn't have $80 grand.
I had the surgery in Toronto and it cost me a little bit ($100 or so)for a semi-private recovery room and that's it. The surgeon was extremely qualified. From symptoms, to diagnosis, to treatment with medication, to failure of medication, to return of excruciating "just kill me now" pain, to surgery was 7 months.
Hey Dana Bash, if you want to do a real piece, why don't you find someone with a condition like mine in the U.S. and compare our respective experiences in the respective systems.
about the Canadian healthcare system. (Stop with the stories. I can't do this all day.)
Just because rethuglicans don't like something doesn't mean we have to care much less cave in to them. We are way too nice to them, you hear me Obama? I don't see them as moral authorities on anything, the left wing is the moral wing. We care about the poor, the old, the disadvantaged, progress and science. They don't, they are greedy, evil, self centered bastards. Don't give them their fantasy authority!
Where does CNN get its cheap ass reporters?
Dana Bash, bless her spin mongering little heart, would be better off reporting car wrecks for EyeWitness Local News that separating fact from fiction. Her foray into foreign health reporting was a cheap predetermined hit job. I can't wait until she does a Climate Change story and reports from her refrigerator with some binoculars.
Typical GOP spin from Mitch McConnell who is likely a lobbyist for some HMO. The fact is Canadians have access to healthcare while many Americans don't.
...being a Canadian, I have to admit that sometimes things are not optimal. For example, the waiting times for something like an MRI are ridiculous. That said, the Luntz talking points are B.S. Assuming you have a Dr. here, no C.E.O. or H.I. functionary - or bureaucrat for that matter - will stand between you and (s)he. The likelihood of medically-caused financial ruin is slim (though it does exist).
Downside, the Canadian system eats up a huge amount of national budget, which to a certain extent is reflected in taxation levels. And there is a continual debate - despite national polls that claim our health system is sacrosanct - about how best to deliver care equitably, efficiently and effectively. France is often held up as a model. A 'PPP' mix, if you will.
However, despite its imperfections, when it comes to immediate care, I would not trade our system for for that of the U.S.
I doubt anyone in the Great White North is comfortable wading into U.S. policy. But one could say - given the number of uninsured in your country - there are worse options than the public option.
C'est tout. FWIW
unlike Canada, which does not have a history of waging illiegal wars of agression...
If America could spend a portion of the trillions of dollars used to slaughter Muslims in the middle east, we could give every American health coverage..
Canadian government healthcare budgets might be high, but the U.S. spends more than twice as much per capita or as a % of the GDP as Canada does on healthcare.... the difference is the public and employers are paying directly to the insurance companies rather than through government as in Canada, who can keep a better lid on costs and cut out the profit margin.
Also, don't forget that a much larger majority of business is owned by the private/corporate sector than the government, as Bill Maher made his point clear on a recent Real Time by showing a clear chart exposing the disproportion.
Chances are, the profits made in the health insurance industry can actually have some sort of cap-and-trade, because the same amount Americans pay for health care (at least for those who can [barely] afford it), can go towards a national health care system. If only the health insurance CEO's would give back or somehow be prosecuted into paying into a public health care system or option.
Hi! I'm Canadian from the Montreal area,
I missed a bus and punched a brick wall out of anger and broke my hand.
I went to a walk-in that had radiology and got my hand X-Rayed, the GP tells me: "Yup, it's fractured, take these X-rays to your nearest hospital tomorrow morning.... go early in the morning to not wait too long."
so I go to my nearest hospital the next day at 6:00 AM. I show my X-Rays at the triage.. then went back to the waiting room for 10 minutes.
An orthopedist called me, looked at my X-Ray, went gentle on my hand, made me bite a pad, re-aligned my bone into place.. ouch, then gently place my hand into a CAST.
all of this.......... FOR FREE!!
Oh! Canada!
CNN sucks
I have waited hours in emergency rooms in both Canada and the U.S. It is exactly the same. Most are short on staff. In Canada government budget constraints often cut staff. In the U.S. the profit motive also often cuts staffs. The difference is that in Canada you are paying significantly less (half) for healthcare than in the U.S. for no real better experience in say emergency rooms.
Canadas ERs stick to triage.In Canada , the downtrodden with a heart problem goes to front of line , even in front of the wealthy CEO with a hangnail. That must drive a lot of Americans nuts.
I had a friend whose sister broke her leg while vacationing in Canada. She received prompt, excellent care in a hospital (not sure what city or province) and it was FREE. They told her, "You're a guest in our country... no charge."
A question to any Canadians here. How do you put up with right wing Americans putting down your country, boasting how America is better in their eyes?..Republicans dismiss the Candian health care system as inferior to the American system.
Such is is more American arrogance.
My favorite reason (for the absurdity) Republicans give for not liking Canada is because half the population speaks French.
Plus how tiresome does it get when Americans arrogantly boast that ONLY America has liberty and freedom? Doesn't Canada have freedom too?
Do you take offense to these ignorant, arrogant Americans, or laugh in their fat faces?
I'll tell you this, i live in MA- I can't afford health insurance, so I pay the fine, which in the end is cheaper...How is this better than the Canadian system?
I work in research (biological) and had a US friend tell me that the research in Canada on medical issues wasn't as good as the US because of lower profit for health and pharma. So, basically told me to my face that I was working in substandard research. Never mind that most of those truly big breakthroughs come through basic science research at universities...
Its hardly the first time I've been told what its like in MY country from Americans. I think the usual reaction is to laugh at it, or provide some truly wrong information to such people and watch them repeat it with authority. Have you ever heard of our practice of putting the elderly out on ice floes when they get too old? :)
To be fair though there is a contingent of people here that seem to have a perpetual hate on for the US, so in some perverse way it balances out I guess.
The Canadians who hate America and Americans exist too- I love Canada- My grandmother came from Nova Scotia- but in my 6 month stint of living in Toronto, I met some VERY unfriendly people there who assumed that ince I was american I was just another arrogant American, and they were nasty to me- but once I made it clear I love Canada, and shared many of their gripes, they were pretty accepting...
America needs to stop lecturing the world...a little humility would go a long way...
The sense you got of rejection from Toronto is ironic to say the least.
Most of us in the rest of Canada have the same attitude towards Toronto 'The Good'.
If Canada had a pinata, it would be TO.
The thing is, look at this story...THE MEDIA SUCKS IN AMERICA.
If Americans were a quarter as educated as to what's happening in the world as citizens of other countries, there would be NO healthcare debate, everyone would have healthcare.
But instead of in-depth reporting, you get this..."Mitch McConnell says giving people healthcare will put give the government CONTROL OVER YOUR LIFE. And we've manufactured a story to back up his ridiculous fabricated nonsense."
It's CRAP. CNN is CRAP. YOU FREEKIN' PEOPLE, JUST HAND OVER YOU FREEKIN' CREDENTIALS. Go sell cars or work in advertising, because you're not journalists, you HUCKSTER SALESMEN.
I roll my eyes, basically. Nobody's ever said anything bad to my face about our system, and I live in a border city.
The whole world laughs at Americans, you are just not in on the joke.
People look at your education system and health system and think it is a joke.
I do not know a single German, French, Italian, Japanese, Dutch, Canadian, etc. who would trade their education or healthcare systems for the U.S. systems.
And frankly once you factor in all the costs, the taxes are not all that much different. It is about lifestyle and ethical choices.
The funny thing is you want to live in the so-called capitalist wild west and some how think that is better, but you still end up paying significantly more in an unsustainable system and dying younger with no more fullfilling lives.
let's just talk about those few people in Kentucky who make illegal moonshine, no, not many, but we'll highlight them to make a point that Kentucky has a problem with illegal liquor. Not fair, oh my...you mean we should look at 'all Kentuckians' before we make such judgements. Hmmmmmm.
Well, being a Canadian, who happened to live in Kentucky for three years (many years ago)and loved it...I will offer up the following opinion.
Dana Bash, who works for Lou Dobbs (he who is most afraid of brown people) does a 'story' (and that is truly a story at best) about the Canadian healthcare system.
I find it difficult to even dignify a response to this, but I shall out of some kind of empathy for the 'ordinary American', who is really just like me, the 'ordinary Canadian'...and because I'm getting extremely pissed off with the 'tweezer-like' cherry picking whenever some talking head in the U.S. wants to do a piece on the Canadian healthcare system.
We are humans...there is no perfect system anywhere in the world, nor will there ever be, simply because we are dealing with humans, who are not perfect!
I would say that to find sad & horrific cases in the States, one would not have to actually 'search'...they are so common as to make it almost absurd.
Long...but I am going to post, again, something I wrote about a month ago, in complete exasperation with the people in the U.S. getting the raw end of the deal & apparently not willing to fight for themselves.
To wit...
"I'm tired of posting on blog after blog about my own, and many other Canadians' experience with our single-payer/Universal Healthcare (call it what you will) and how I would never trade it for anything else anywhere.
I think it's a great mix of things (nothing is so simple), but the one thing I hear throughout all of the discussions & arguments about healthcare reform in the U.S., is just plain 'fear'. Fear of something new; fear of admitting that the age-old 'American' system just doesn't work; fear of labels...labels that the self-serving pocket-liners have been feeding the afraid for generations.
Time to realize that you do not live within this superior bubble that will 'right itself' given enough time...time is up...it's never going to happen. Those rich & powerful that the American populace at-large seem to be so enamoured with are never going to allow the everyday people to have any rights or privileges other than what they dictate.
Sounds extreme...well, no...I'm just amazed over & over at how the people of the U.S. continue to allow themselves to be manipulated.
I live in a country amongst people who are very much like you.
As far as healthcare goes...I never take my wallet when I go to my doctor (whom I chose & when I chose to have a different one...no problem), nor to the hospital, nor to the walk-in clinic.
There is no 'middle man'...I cannot even fathom having someone in a corporation somewhere having 'any say' as to my personal healthcare!
In my 58 years, I have had numerous procedures, tests, surgeries, physicals & even treatment for lymphoma. I have never experienced an unreasonable wait time, I have always had the best of care, by doctors & nurses, in the best & most up to date hospitals. When I was diagnosed with lymphoma just two years ago, I had consultations, tests and therapy all within two months of said diagnosis...yes, all done within two months...and luckily clear to this day.
My experience is not unusual...it is the norm here.
Tell me about the stories you hear...use your head...anyone anywhere can come up with exceptions to any rule...we're dealing with humans...never will there be perfection...there will always be some dissatisfied people.
But the distance between what I have available to me here & what you put up with is extreme...and even now you are being denied the option of even talking about a system that has been working here for generations.
Tommy Douglas was the founder of our healthcare system...he, of course, met with great opposition when he put his ideas forward.
Well, Tommy Douglas, in this decade, has been declared the 'Greatest Canadian' by the people of Canada. Yes, he beat out Wayne Gretzky, Terry Fox, Pierre Trudeau & Alexander Graham Bell!
The main reason...his introduction of our healthcare system.
I write all of this because I am so sad that one of the great countries doesn't have what is so within their power to institute & that is to look after their own people for their most basic needs...I fear that it will never happen."
Get with it people...if you keep telling yourselves that what you have or what you might get for healthcare is okay, because a person on TV (who is paid to say what they say & could care less what that is) tells you to be afraid of anything outside of your borders (and Lou Dobb's show is all about that) then you truly do deserve what you get. Look at what you have now...in my world I'd throw it out with the trash...garbage.
Right on!
I love your posts. Cheers!
calgarylady...great compliment from you for sure!
How the hell can we stop preaching to the choir & get those friends in the U.S. to demand what they should rightfully have??
I know...the 'other ones' simply choose to hear what they want to hear...so frustrating!
I wrote a long complaint to CNN about their ridiculously one-sided, "cherry-picked" story.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, copy and paste your comment into their email complaint page.
I checked out the CNN website & was rather confused as to where I might send a complaint.
I could spend more time deducing the best option, but if you could fast track me to the correct link or 'button', then I would gladly send a missive off.
http://edition.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.h...
I tried sending the email to CNN with the link you posted...thanks so much for that. It came back saying 'the webpage couldn't be displayed'...so I tried again...not sure if it went through, hopefully so.
If it did...only issue is there is probably someone with a short attention span reviewing received emails, so for sure, mine would be a yawn or two away from 'delete'.
I gave up on CNN a few years ago when they pushed Aaron Brown out...I endured & liked Anderson for a while, but ended up quite disgruntled when he proved himself to be nothing more than an awe struck celebrity groupie who goes for the cheap thrill.
We try to get through regardless. :)
Yes, on some things there are waits. And going for knees they went for one that is often the longest.
Here's what you DON'T see here.. just look up "60 minutes health care" and the story on Remote Area Medical. If you had that happening, where it was so bad a charity was picking up the slack for those that were getting nothing, politicians would be getting turfed.
I thought CNN was positioning itself to be non-partisan. MSNBC is supposed to be left, Faux News is right, so what is CNN now?
I knew this story was crap when I saw the box at the bottom of the screen that said, "Free, If yo don't mind waiting."
Nothing is Free. they pay taxes for health care. And the wait is for non life threating problems. The women in the story didn't get the answer she wanted from the gov't system, heck many Americans don't get what they want for a private run system. Give me a break.
Health care is RATIONED in BOTH countries. The only difference is that the Canadian system distributes healthcare RATIONALLY, while the American system distributes it IRRATIONALLY. Canada allocates the best and most rapid healthcare to the people who are the sickest. America rations health care, too, but the rationing has nothing to do with need. American rations the best and most rapid healthcare to the people who have the most money, regardless of need. However, pointing out this simple fact usually results in a bunch of wingnuts quoting Karl Marx about "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." So be it.
BOTTOM LINE: Canada has a healthcare system that works and makes sense for one reason, and for one reason only. Because Canada has SEVERE LIMITS on the amount of money that businesses and political action committees (which are just money laundering facilities for businesses) can contribute to political campaigns. The United States will never have rational laws and rational public policy that serves the public interests UNTIL campaign finance reform neutralizes the power of multinational corporations to influence the political process.
BRING IN CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, and all of these other problems will solve themselves.
Join
http://change-congress.org/
and
http://change-congress.org/partners/
Join
http://change-congress.org/
and
http://change-congress.org/partners/
That is what we have for news people today paid corporate shills.
It would embaress me to death to stand in front of a camera and lie to millions of people for a few bucks! Wow
republicanism is a mental illness!
I'm a 53 year old American citizen and I've lived in Canada for 28 years. I've had some experience with the health care system in both countries. First off I want to assure every American that the Canadian system is MUCH BETTER. I had to let a knee injury go untreated when I was 19 because at the time i was uninsured. After I moved to Canada I got the knee operated on for free, and I don't recall there being a wait for longer than a month or so -- and this was mostly due to the fact that at the time I was living in a remote area and had to arrange to go to the city to a hospital with an orthopedic surgeon during my vacation time. I've never been refused medical care by any "government bureaucrat" -- there are no such people working in patient care in Canada. The doctors and their patients make the decisions. If you get in an accident, you go to the closest hospital. To get surgery a specialist must see you, and while this can take some time, as earlier posters have correctly noted, if the condition is serious enough you get expedited care. I know a guy who was diagnosed 3 weeks ago with a brain tumor, and he was on the operating table a few days after the diagnosis. He's going to physical therapy now. None of this costs him a dime. On the face of it, it's a remarkably similar situation to the woman who was interviewed by Dana Bash, but the outcomes were so different that I suspect that there was more to the story than what Bash was reporting.
I've also (regrettably) had some recent experience with hospital care involving a close family member who is of advanced age and suffering from mild dementia. She was hospitalized after an accident. She received excellent care at the hospital, but she has had nothing but grief and bills in the aftermath because, while she has plenty of insurance coverage, her health insurance providers are constantly passing the buck amongst each other, trying to get the other to pay. Meanwhile, the hospital sics the bill collectors on her. It's disgusting to see how she has to worry and fret because she doesn't really understand the rules of the game -- and nobody else does either, least of all the insurance providers themselves. We don't have to put up with this kind of bullshit in Canada.
I've got to add this one more thing: in the States, the health care industry seems to cater much more to the ego of the patient rather than the total health picture. In the States it seems as if you come in to get something "fixed", and the providers of health care bust their butts to "fix" the problem, but they also seem to limit their focus onto just what will make the patient happy, sort of like "the customer's always right". However, doctors in Canada seem to take more of a holistic interest in the health of the patient. They are more likely to say something like "here's a script for your sore elbow, but I'd also like to send you for tests about that mole, just in case." (even if you didn't complain about the mole in the first place).
There's drawbacks to both systems, of course, but in the areas where it really counts, I would entrust my health and that of my family to the Canadian system EVERY TIME. I say this to my fellow Americans: don't believe the Republican hype -- they know nothing about Canadian health care.
I have lived in both Canada and the U.S. for years and I have experience in both health systems. I actually also lived in the UK and have experience there too.
First anyone can pick out a single horror story from any country on the planet and say there is a problem with the system. You need to look at the bigger picture to really determine the merits. Look at overall health stats, the costs, % of the population covered, etc. I do not know anyone in Canada who would want to give up their system for the U.S. system. Maybe a few doctors who want to get paid more.
I have two problems with that CNN report.
1) Wait times in Canada is an old talking point and really not all that valid any more. The woman in the story had her treatment a while ago. In the last few years the Canadian system has gotten much better with waiting times. The times are much lower. The wait times argument on average does not really hold much water any more. And frankly I would rather wait a little than have to pay the very high costs that are paid in the U.S. It is all relative.
2) The report says that taxes are much higher in the Canada. That is not really true. Once you compare the total tax bill (municipal, state, federal, consumption) and add back the say $600 premium people pay a month in the U.S. for health insurance, I would argue that taxes are the same if not lower in Canada.
The two core arguments against a public option are wait times and taxes. I do not think they really hold up. And you also have to look at all the other countries on the planet, rather than just Canada.
I think the U.S. healthcare system is a rip-off. It is just a big money making venture at the expense of the health of Americans. You pay a huge premium for sub par coverage and service. It is not the best health system in the world.
Our system is not perfect, but I would guarantee that except for the very rich, if you asked Canadians to trade their system for the American one, 95% would say no way, regardless of their political stripe. This is one thing that almost all Canadians agree on.
The story makes an attempt at being fair and balanced but does want to highlight the wait times. I'm Canadian and I know there are some anecdotal stories that put the Health Care system in a bad light (my brother-in-law's dad had to wait a few months for surgery). But overall we're a nation committed to providing health care and do the best we can with the resources available. Most times it's very good and people are taken care of, but no doubt it's not perfect. The important thing is that we believe in universal single payer health care and attempt to do the best we can. Unfortunately for Americans, only some of you believe in the ideal of good health care for all, so even if and when Obama's Health Care Plan passes and is adopted, it will forever have enemies out there trying to destroy it and be able to say "See, this Socialism just doesn't work" So the battle is made so much more difficult. All we need to do is look at the war against Public Education and see their M.O. Starve the system of proper and funding and when it starts to crumble they say "it's all a mess, we need options like private schools, home schooling and vouchers, because Public Schools aren't measuring up."
Running a fully funded, well administered Universal Health Care system is difficult enough. Doing it with bastards tying one hand behind your back will be twice as hard.
You want another anecdotal story?
My dad had a severe stroke which left him paralysed on his left side. He had no benefits package at work and no private health insurance. He spent 6 months in the hospital recovering some his abilities to speak and to walk. After he came home he got weekly visits from his doctor and a later a nurse who would just check Blood Pressure and see if everything was OK.
Now here was a guy who had no education (grew up in war and post war Europe) came to Canada in the 50's, worked hard his whole life and had his house and it's contents as the sum total of his assets. Without Socialized Medicine, he would have had to sell his home and liquidate to pay for that 6 month hospital stay, but with it, he was able to live the last few years of his life, in his home, with some dignity. Surely that’s the least he deserved for working so hard all his life.
Sorry for the long rambling post, but my heart goes out to all you Americans who have this massive fight on your hands.
I am Canadian too. Since i lost my 25 year job back in 2002 ( fuck you again Ingersoll Rand ) i have had a arterial bypass (c/w with diagnostic angiograms), and i spent 7 days in hospital last year after a mild heart attack. The Province supplements my drug needs due to my lower income level now and i have yet to receive a bill for anything else. However , im a little pissed about the increase in rates at hospital parking lot. Hearing the right wing freakazoids bullshit about Canadas health care gets a little old. I cant think of a single person i know that has suffered needlessly or would prefer the greed based pathetic US system . Take note of Michael Moores relatives , featured in Sicko, who live in Ontario who wont even go fucking shopping in Detroit without extra " out of country" medical coverage. Its a Canadians worst nightmare to be held captive in a US hospital where they charge 100 bucks for a Flintstones bandaid. There are a couple of inequalities in the Canada system such as men have to pay a surcharge ( 30 bucks ) for a PSA test while women have mammograms and Paps smears for nothing. No big deal. What i really appreciate is the fact my Doc is still the boss and not some asshole sitting in a cubicle trying to win a bonus by denying you the care you thought you had already paid through the nose for in the first place. Dana is just another corporate whore.
I also had very expensive ACL reconstruction surgery done on my right knee in 1991. I was on the hook for a post operative brace but my company benefits picked that up.I have never had another pain or problem with that knee since which will blow the incoming frightwing crap about the quality of our care out the window too.
Following major surgery last year, the (American) hospital sent me the bill: I am not exaggerating, this thing was at least 10 pages long, with itemization of charges for every single thing involved from the surgery to the 3-day stay. The bill was $15,000. I was given 2 pain pills every 4 hours; the hospital charged $6 per tablet-- yet when I had the prescription for the same drug filled at a local pharmacy after my release, the entire bottle was only $10. There was a $150 charge for a stethoscope! Indigent funding covered the hospital bill (but not the surgery or anesthesiology), but I remember the billing office asking if I had had a chance to review the bill to see if everything was accurate. My answer: "Lady, after surgery I was on morphine then on strong pain meds for 3 days, how would I know if everything on the bill is accurate?"
Under a Single Payer plan, we would not have to put up with this BS.
Its sad, but probably true, that comprehensive universal health care in the USA is next to impossible to achieve. You would have to thin the herd and put a lot of people out of work as you reconstruct the system. The present Canadian model relies on the elimination of duplication of services. Why have so many MRis and CT Scans in areas where the population base doesn't warrant the expense? Hard to envision the morphing of the US system into a non profit/less suits entity. Hard to imagine HMOS accepting checks,balances,price controls and standardization of fees too. Its just gone too far the other way to turn it back.Taking the profit out of the US system seems but a pipedream.
There is a significant shortage of specialists in Canada. This is the reason for the long waits. At least part of this comes from a sort of brain-drain that occurs with young specialists.
Why work in Canada as an oncologist for a paltry 180K per year when you can make five times that figure doing the same work in the United States? So yeah, Canada has it's issues.
However, if your medical system were funded by your bankrupt government, perhaps there would be a bit more parity in salaries and we'd be more successful in keeping our young doctors in Canada.
Oh yeah, my second daughter was very ill at birth and we spend 2 weeks in the neo-natal intensive care unit. During that time, she was monitored 24 hours a day by the best staff in the hospital. On at least 2 occasions, the sensors and oxygen ventalators hooked up to her saved her life. I did not pay a dime for this and I'd be ashamed to live in a country that would charge someone to save a life.
... in fact on a medical doctors per capita level, we're not that well off when compared to other nations. Canada included.
Now, it is very very very disingenuous to use the waiting times for elective procedures in Canada, since there are equal (or longer) waiting times for those procedures in the USA.
How do some of the scoundrels in the US system cook the waiting times? Well, they usually neglect to include the time it takes for the procedure to be approved.
Looking at the warts of another system which is ranked way higher than ours in quality of care by the WHO is a tad ballsy even for Americans. It is like having a person who can't paint for sh*t criticising a Monet for his choice of colors. The typical "who the f*ck do you think you are?" response is very apropos in this case.
Speaking of waiting times, does anyone remember who commented on (ABC?) TV a couple of weeks ago, griping that if we insure all those 47 million people who lack health insurance, that was just going to cause the wait times to increase-- and he already has to wait long enough for a doctor's appointment! Selfish $!&#%!
That's why the Canadians live longer than people in the USA, because their system is NOT as good.
If the U.S. System is so good why do my Wife and I take out travel insurance every time we head south for any length of time? Perhaps Miss Bash should talk to more than just one Canadian about the system, that is poor reportage if you ask me. She should also talk to folks who suffer from chronic illness who try as they might can't get coverage. I had a look into this as a sufferer of chronic illness [thankfully in remission at this time]if I had to move to the U.S. I'd basically be a dead man if I had a relapse.
You'd be surprised how good it is for you to not have to worry every time you have an ache that you may lose the house if it's the disease coming back. You can focus on getting better instead of stressing about how the bills will get paid.
I don't mean this as a shot but does anybody else thing Miss Bash has a sort of Jar Jar Binks thing going on?
Cozening Noisemaker's Network
CNN has no shame. Or integrity.
I am a 100 per cent totally disabled Vietnam vet. I live in a third world country so I can have affordable health care and not go to that goddam VA that killed my father.
I have a few spare dollars and I am paying for an American sister who is unemployed and uncovered to go to a second world country to see if she DOES have cancer, since she can't afford to go to an american specialist. She will not die if I have to strip myself of my safety fund. She will have care.
I left my honor and my soul in Vietnam, but I am still human.
First is personal: my father had an accident with a table saw that nearly resulted in all his fingers being severed. Once he got to Emergency, he was seeing a doctor within minutes and was in surgery with a microsurgeon reattaching things (and inserting metal rods to support the healing fingers) within three hours.
For the first few weeks he had to go in every few days to have medical leeches attached to his fingertips to drain off excess blood while the vessels reconnected. About four months later, he went in one last time to get the rods removed, and spent some time with a physiotherapist to get movement and strength back.
Direct cost to the family: what we paid in gas for his trips to the hospital. Yeah, sure I'd want the "Best system in the world in the US of A" where, because my father is a self-employed fisherman, that accident would have been a financial disaster for us instead of the nuisance (in slowing down the amount of work he could do) it eventually turned out to be.
Other story: a few years back, we rescued two American hunters who'd been stuck on the land with their guide due to a breakdown of their snowmobile and a subsequent multi-day blizzard. When they were brought in, both had frostbite, one pretty bad on his feet. One, quite legitimately asked what it would cost and I joked that we had a card reader in the ambulance that took Visa and American Express. We all broke out laughing when he actually started to pull out his wallet, and assured him that it wasn't going to cost him anything. The only cost their insurance ended up being billed for was the medevac out of the Arctic to a southern hospital, the paperwork they had to do consisting of a two-page form to get the basic information. And that was it.
CNN's Dana Bash didn't need to search all of Canada for a single Canadian — Shona Holmes — to represent their opinion on the universal health care system that Canadians deal with every day. All that Ms. Bash needed to do was cite CBC's Great Canadian Contest, from 2004, where viewers all across Canada voted for their choice of the greatest single Canadian.
They chose Tommy Douglas, a politician who died in 1986, before many of them were out of grade school, winning out over Dr. Frederick Banting, Alexander Graham Bell, and Wayne Gretzky. Why? Because Mr. Douglas is recognized as the person responsible for introducing universal public health care to Canada.
Funny, isn’t it, that in a story about how Canadians value their health care system, investigative reporters like Ms. Bash always seem to overlook the Great Canadian Contest.
http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/do...
By the way, where do you think Richard Nixon would be placed in Americans’ evaluation of the system he initiated?
Those with the most serious and immediate issue go to the front of the triage or Emergency room line. However, if no immediate problem, as a cold or strained ankle you can wait hours in either a U.S. or Canadian emergency room. Same difference. You just pay more to wait in the U.S.
You had better have time to spare if you show up at an ER during a peak period.Personally,i found a heart attack gets you to the front of the line pretty damn quick but i wouldn't recommend it. I understand the systems attempts to discourage overuse of the ERs. Far too many hypochondriacs , bored crazy cat ladies and soccer moms who show up with their kids everytime they clear their throats. Emergency should be exactly as the word suggests. EMERGENCY... We have lots of walk in and after hours clinics around to service the rest. I kinda chuckled when i read that US hospitals were closing ERs to avoid providing the federally mandated care there to the non and underinsured. It was a kind of sad chuckle though.
Maybe someone needs to ask these idiots to report how many Canadians (or citizens in other countries) go bankrupt because of medical debt: NONE. While in the US, 60% of all bankruptcies are related to medical expenses, and 3/4 of those individuals had health insurance. Also, how many people DIE because they lack access to health care in other countries? In the US, it's between 18-20,000 people every year. And how many more ignore symptoms and suffer, often letting their conditions go undiagnosed and untreated- frequently resulting in the conditions becoming much more serious and more expensive to treat, often becoming life-threatening...
Now try to get coverage if you have a "pre-existing condition." Even if you're able to find coverage, you'll have to wait 6 months before your insurance company will pay for treatment of the condition, even if it's diabetes, or cancer, or ALS. How's that for waiting?
how about a study of doctors who have practiced in both the US and Canada. Along with the greatly reduced adminstrative costs of a single-payer system and a far less likelihood of being sued for malpractice in Canada, universal access was paramount in their assessment:
"Universal access was seen as a major benefit not only to the patient but to the practitioner, who no longer needed to worry about the patient's ability to pay in determining a course of action."
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.f...
Why is this simple reality so hard to grasp?
This isn't desired because it will be harder and more expensive. It's desired because it's the most fair, efficient system. Full Stop.
I first heard of Shona Holmes when viewing C-SPAN coverage of a rally against health care reform hosted by Grover Norquist. She spoke about her experience (which she evidently later recounted at a hearing chaired by Henry Waxman). Her story as stated is compelling but clearly looks like the kind of issue you always see in complicated organizations - things go wrong. but the whole thing didn't smell right. If you google her name, you will see the story reported on a lot of right wing websites in addition to the numerous CNN-like non-journalistic restatement of her narrative as a GOP talking point. She is involved in a lawsuit paid for by a Canadian right wing group to repeal the Ontario provincial government laws to prohibit private insurance. She is also sueing the province to be recouped for her medical costs in treatment at the Mayo clinic in Scottsdale, AZ (and why not the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota - a lot closer? They have a top-notch neurosurgery team there. What is it about Arizona...?)
I found this very informative thread on Matthew Yglesia' site
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/20...
which clarified a lot of the conusions I had about the Canadian system.
it includes the following comment from a Canadian Neurologist regarding Holmes' story:
" 2009 at 9:25 am
I’m a senior neurology resident at an academic hospital in Canada; I manage our tertiary care neurology ward service and run my own (supervised) prospective clinic.
Cases referred to our care from GPs are triaged according to their clinical features. There is no rationing involved beyond the specialist’s own constraints on his or her time. There is certainly no waiting list imposed by a government agency. In emergent cases, we have patients sent to ER where we meet them at the door. In benign (or benign-seeming) cases, the wait may be a year or more, depending on the region and the availability of that service — but that’s a simple, practical question of how many patients one doctor can see in a day, a month or a year.
Contact from primary-care physicians is unlimited. There is always someone on call for our service who has authority to see any patient on an emergent basis. Patients awaiting appointments who develop progressive or new symptoms can be reviewed over the phone immediately and seen the same day if needed. Again, the only judgment involved is medical, in accordance to the principles of triage, and at the sole discretion of the specialist. Bureaucratic calculations are beside the point.
If Shona Holmes was referred to a neurologist who booked her for an appointment in 6 months, that tells me her neurologist didn’t see anything in her case that needed to be addressed before then. Had she been recognized as suffering from progressive vision loss or endocrinopathy her case should have been triaged at the highest priority. Ongoing headaches, dizziness or insomnia in the presence of a stable lesion would not be an indication for emergent management, in my opinion.
For what it’s worth, Rathke cleft cysts (Ms Holmes’ diagnosis) are benign and usually asymptomatic. They usually don’t enlarge or cause progressive deficits. They’re most commonly found incidentally on MRIs ordered for unrelated symptoms, and in such cases are no cause for alarm or emergent management.
Promoting this case as an attempt to discredit the Canadian health case system is weak, weak sauce."
Take-away-points:
1. Holmes did NOT have brain cancer, though that may not have been clear prior to her visit to Arizona.
2. She did have a cyst, which as noted above, is not life-threatening.
3. It was causing her physical and emotional distress - and anything that
affects your vision will scare the hell out of you. I can't blame her for wanting to pursue this immediately.
4. YOu can see exactly the same kinds of things happening here - even with insurance. And have you tried to get an appointment with a neurologist as a new patient lately? Ain't easy.
5. My take - instead of trying to provide valuable feedback to the Canadian system to show how it railed, she wants to destroy it - in exchange for a Palin-esque period to bask in the warm lights of publicity and get a lot of attention from very rick people.
I suspect that more will be forthcoming abut Mrs. Holmes. If you have time, read the whole Yglesias thread - really worthwhile.
Milo
Login or Register to post comments.