September 01, 2009 08:00 AM
Countdown: Jeremy Scahill on Why There Need to Be Prosecutions from Top to Bottom for Torture
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Jeremy Scahill weighs in on Dick Cheney's softball interview on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace and why there needs to be prosecutions of everyone from top to bottom. And that means anyone who broke the law and ordered the torture of prisoners, from the top Bush administration officials to those that carried it out. Scahill also takes the media to task for their coverage of this issue and not making sure Americans are actually aware of what's been done in their name.
first, he calls out ch
fuck todd. Now this! I am loving it!Some stuff you can't make up!
in 2006, Democrats successfully won control of Congress with a national theme of "throw the bums out."
Now they're the bums and voters are waiting to open the door under the exit sign.
I'm not quite to that point just yet.
>"throw the bums out."
And vote a republican into office? The party of no has nothing.
I have nothing against running progressive Dems against bluedogs in primaries, but voting for bat-$hit crazy Bachmans and Hatch's et al?
p.s. The Dems won even more in 2008. Your thesis is incorrect.
Barack Obama is doing everything Bush and Cheney did. Why aren't you all calling for his arrest as well? Is it not obvious yet?
The Establishment is trying to destroy both the right and the left. All the while they pit us all against each other instead of us focusing on the real people who control Obama and Cheney.
Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/01/natio...
Obama Continues Torture and Torture-related Murder in the Bogus War on Terror
VIDEO:Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman about torture-homicide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLJ-cnvkGGA&fe...
Obama Sides With Bush in Spy Case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/22/obam...
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/02/obam...
Obama to CIA: Bombs Away! No Let Up in US Drone Attacks
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=671812...
nails it. Flat out nails it.
give a sh*t. In case you haven't noticed.
More and more every day!
I doubt most Americans give a sh*t or even know much about the whole torture scandal.
I think they do.
... we live in this country, we should stop pretending "we" are something we are not. Most Americans just don't give a flying sh*t. Ask 5 random people about Abu Ghraib (sp?) and watch the blank stares.
The average American is concerned with one thing and one thing only: the economy. They could live in a marxist fascist muslim theocracy for all they care as long as they were getting a nice pay check. That is the reality of it...
-when they are informed -with evidence- of just what was done in America's name.
I'm beginning to think Obama was being quite wily in keeping so many of the bush DOJ appointees on.
It isn't quite so creditable when Cheney & Co. squeal about a "Political Witch Hunt!" when it is their OWN people -appointees- prosecuting them.
I wish I'd thought of it.
Who knew?
I don't suppose the DOJ announces each and every investigation it undertakes, particularly one as explosive as this one.
If they can 'turn' Gonzalez, well- who knows?
I try to hope for the Best while anticipating the Worst.
Granted, this pot has been on simmer for a long time. However, it's about to heat up to a full boil. Cheney and his equally warped offspring wouldn't be working so hard to denigrate these efforts if they weren't fully aware of the appropriate outcome: conviction, sentencing, and (here's the best part) going down in history as the most vile, corrupt, and disgusting vice president ever.
to find out people don't give a sh*t? I call BS too! Perhaps you don't give a sh*t, but there's a lot of us who do.
His point is...you, me, we....clearly do not represent the majority.
Most people don't give a shit. No, it's worse...they don't even understand what they don't give a shit about.
It's not that most Americans don't know...it's that they don't even suspect...and they like it that way.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
!
Many of my friends get really angry if I send them "political" info. One friend of 20 years accused me of spamming her!
To them "It's just politics", and they cannot seem to understand the connection between politics & their immediate lives and future welfare. Or perhaps they do.
My friends aren't stupid, and lean "liberal", but I suspect they feel powerless about affecting anything, and therefore do not want to know about it.
Or! Maybe they fear becoming addicted to the issues the way I have. It can be expensive. And one does often feel ineffective.
was elected president in large part on a promise to restore this nation's battered moral authority.
He was elected because some people projected upon Obama what they hoped he would promise. He never promised anything - and he is delivering what he promised. Nothing.
A man of his word.
(More Koolaid anyone?)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
I'm not drinking it.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
so far Events do seem to be going the way we want. It's taking a lot of work on OUR part, but that is surely a good thing, isn't it? Can't leave everything to the President.
Torture investigations HAVE been initiated -using a Bush appointee! while the DOJ is still stacked with our former president's (supposed) cronies. Obviously Cheney is Quiite Scared. As he should be.
Verrry interesting.
Looks like -thanks to Us bloggers (Firedoglake) we may get our Public Option after all. Other than the possible deal cut with the pharmaceuticals Obama has not shown a lot of involvement, let alone leadership, and yet things do appear to be working out the way we want.
I'm not talking 11-dimensions chess. More like poker, I'd guess.
to sell. And, not to be cynical, but what will the "public option" consist of? Anyone know? Anyone know if the SOL has run on the potential DOJ charges? Anyone?
a Public Option will be crap. But try to think of crap as fertilizer. Or a -heh heh- thin wedge. Maybe it'll only be available to pregnant women & children under age 5 years, or some such thing that no one with a modicum of humanity can reasonably object to.
'specially if they're anti-abortion. You want a woman to keep her baby? Give financial help. Call the bill
"Aid to the UnBorn" or some such dorky name. Heh.
Forgive my wild Optomism: I'm in SUCH a good mood. After YEARS of suffering, taking handfulls of meds every day, I was finally properly diagnosed with plain old SLEEP APNEA! (And I have a
Cadillac health policy). I started the CPAP treatment last Friday, and I am really feeling better each day. O What a little Oxygen in the bloodstream will do!
out of the voters' mouths, to give them someone to hate even MORE than Bush, so that when the fascisti mount a REAL ticket--probably in '12, but certainly by '16, the people will be so sick of "hopey/changey" bullshit they'll welcome the authoritarians with open arms...
afraid that you're exactly right.
That's the way that fascists get control.
The progressives are afraid of their own shadows.
are too busy singing Kumbaya.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
... there were almost 48 million Americans who wanted more of that wonderful Republican sh*t sandwich taste.
they cant stand a BLACK MAN in the Whitehouse.If Obama was white, things would be very diffrent.
... Kerry was white as the driven snow and still lost, the economy was not fully in the shitter then though.
This wallace guy forgot to ask cheney how can you question a dead person?
After the first one or two dropped dead trying to come up with the right answer did you review the POLICY, like you like to call it?
How about after your minions murdered 10?
After over a Hundred mostly innocent human beings were murdered did you think it was time for a change? Like tracheotomy kits, was that your idea?
But looking at his estate one thing is clear, War Crimes pays big time.
options when he became VP. That was illegal, but, "so?"
what a hore for money looks like.
Use the spell check.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Investigate?
Not with Obama ready to "move on".
It's a lucky thing he wasn't around in the 40s.
There would have been no Nurenberg trials.
All those bastards would have moved on to Nantucket or Texas.
This investigations is Holder's baby.
What about military tribunals?
What about the FBI?
Furthermore, isn't Holder Mr. Obama's employee?
The Dems are not willing to touch this with a 20ft pole for the simple reason that a lot of them are in it to the gills.
Furthermore, if the Dems can't even muster the fortitude to pass a meaningful health care reform which has ubiquitous popular support. I sincerely doubt they will do much to further an investigation that will make WaterGate look like a boy scout ceremony, and will polarize the political spectrum like nothing has done since the Civil War.
Nothing is going to be done about this. The US is a country of laws on the surface, but deep down we stink like the best of them banana republics. And btw, this is not a new development. A country which deems a worse crime to grow a plant than to defraud hundreds of millions from stock holders, for example, does not have its priorities straighten up enough to tackle a much more complex subject like torture and war crimes.
Yes there are a lot of people in this country who think it's OK to torture dark-skinned middle easterners. Hey, they were the ones that flew the planes into the buildings, right? What these people don't get is all the work this country and others have done to put a stop to it. Nuremburg is a good example, not the only one though. We prosecuted people for waterboarding and we will again. As to Mr. Holder and Mr. Durham, they have been tasked with something that should lead to prosecuting the ex-president and his crime family. Announcing from the get-go that the plan would encompass a former president would most certainly inflame the nation (although I suspect most people here would welcome that investigation). In the meantime, the first operative who is asked, "What were your orders and who did they come from?" would almost certainly throw the guy above him on the ladder under the bus. I, personally, want nothing less than w and cheeney wearing orange jumpsuits in real jail not in some country club jail waiting for the sitting President to grant them a pardon. But I am not the President, the DOJ, the Atty. General or the general population of America. I only have ten fingers to type, one mouth to open and a whole lot of justice and precedent on my side and I will use all of that to see that my goal is achieved. Won't you help?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
I am sorry, I don't live in denial or lah-lah land.
And please, let's stop the whole Nuremberg non sense, shall we? It happened because of the ALLIES. Not just because of the Americans, and looking at things like Operation paper clip, it seems that as usual we got our cake (put a good show to maintain a moral higher ground for a few decades later) and eat it too (get access to the useful war criminals).
Continual denial of reality is what is counter productive. If you can't understand where things are, and the reality of them, it is then when nothing will get done. I am not condoning the way things are, I am just pointing them out.
Many Democrats are in it to their gills.
When they signed The Patriot Act without reading it (which for all intents and purposes shredded the Constitution they all took an oath to preserve, protect and defend.
They they continued "going along to get along" with the bullshit 9/11 Omissions and Distortions Report, the Military Commissions Act, FISA etc.
Harman, Feinstein, Pelosi and more Democrats yet unnamed "appeared" to be briefed on waterboarding and after the fact are trying to say, "We didn't know! We didn't know!"
Well, maybe they did and maybe they did not.
Which is all the more reason for a "top to bottom" investigation.
The WORLD needs to know what happened in regards to un-Constitutional criminality in the United States since the election of George W. Bush and Richard Cheney.
Unfortunately, it appears Obama is carrying on the same policies and he will go down in flames too if the truth outs.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
enough be revealed. We will all be branded as hypocrites, at the least. This country lost any reason to consider itself morally superior to any other country, including and especially Somalia, a while ago. If you cannot acknowledge a problem, you cannot solve it. Duh!
Holder is Obama's baby.
..in Rosemary's Baby! What the heck do you mean by that?
No-Bo-Deee wants war crimes' trials more than me but as a patriotic American, I have to believe the system WILL work and these bastards will be held accountable and if not, I will work tirelessly to elect a President, Senators and Congresspersons who will.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
wants is for Obama to do what Bush did and tell the DOJ what laws he wants them to break.
from TPM: "Eric Holder is getting support for his decision to announce a criminal probe of torture from an unlikely source: Alberto Gonzales."
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/200...
never a good sign when the person that SHOULD be one of the main targets supports the DOJ's investigation.
to some the holder investigation leaves the tantilizing possibility that it will envelope more and more of the torture-decision makers. but, to others (like moi) the holder investigation seems to be an official govt whitewash of the illegal acts done in our name. a way to sweep the torture memos under the rug for good, and for ever.
was kicked to the curb, if not actually thrown under The Bus. I'll bet he's smarting! Rove, Cheney, and all the other homicidal creatures in the Bush Admin, are getting platinum parachutes and lots of time on FOX, and what does Alberto get?
A teaching position at a college where he'll be loathed by almost everyone.
Yeah, he may be singing lustily to the Obama folks. I hope.
?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
.
You know, like when Bush was appointed to the Presidency by the Supreme Court? Or the one where he was reelected with the help of the Diebold machines, just like Diebold promised? Those machines so easily hackable, with no way to check the results, whose software is protected from our inquiries? Those kind of elections?
Let me rephrase that ok, lol!
I MEANT to say...
The investigation is Holders baby...not Obama's...sheeesh...looks like it's time for another break from bloggin...
.
... I can understand that some people still confuse the WH with the DOJ, but normal people understand they are different entities.
Holder & the DOJ ARE NOT subservient to the WH. Ideally they are independent. Remember Watergate?
e.g. Gonzales = Bush/Cheney. Holder -= to Obama/Biden.
Obama did his job as he sees it, Holder is doing his job as he sees it.
That said, Scahill is exactly right.
hospital for people with psychiatric disorders: a hospital dedicated to the treatment, care, and protection of people with serious psychiatric disorders who are judged to be unfit or unsafe to be at large
As Scahill said: he had his finger in the war buttion. WTF.
... for saying there needs to be prosecution, not the watered-down whitewash of a 'truth commission.'
We know they did it. We know it was against the law. We know many, if not all, of the principals involved in establishing this policy and carrying it out. It's time to prosecute.
This tears the Cheney talking points to shreds.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2737
doesn't begin to cover Cheney's vile behavior. He embodies all that is corrupt among our latter day Corporatists. Add to that his complete inability to take personal responsibility for his inhumane actions (including, but not limited to, shooting an elderly colleague in the face), and prosecution is only the first step in the cluster of consequences this man richly deserves.
Oh, and his little princess deserves a few consequences of her own, not the least of which should be visiting her father in prison each day.
May the good LORD bless him and keep him in good health in the bowels of Abu Ghraib, serving a life sentence without ANY chance of parole. After a full and fair trial ,if found guilty, he must be stripped of all his ill-gotten worldly possessions and his CITIZENSHIP.
Now if his daughter, Baby Dick, wants to move to Iraq to visit , I'm cool with that.
committed are FEDERAL, thus the death penalty would be the sentence to be carried out.
Anybody want to correct me on this?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
For instance, treason is punishable by death, but one must ask did they want to overthrow the US government? They would probably claim they were trying to protect it. Consider it from both angles. First put yourself in the position of prosecutor, then in the position of defense counsel. In reality, it is not cut and dried. I think war crimes were definitely committed, but which ones and to what extent? Not so easy to answer.
told this guy, I can shoot you and I can get away with it. I can do any thing I want and NO body will do any thing to me.
The guy who got shoot was a DEM.
Dick looks sick.
No matter what evidence is uncovered, the right-wing media will shout "politics" and convince their sheeps that the whole thing is nothing but a witch hunt, retribution for the Clinton impeachment.
Holder should do it anyway.
Cheney called 'em out on Sunday. He admitted everything, and effectively dared the Dims & Obama to do anything about it.
If Holder's investigation yields ANY prosecutions--something I seriously doubt--it will be of the Lyndie England/Charles Granier sorts. Nobody over the rank of MSgt/GS 7 will EVER see the inside of a jail...
no other Veep in history has done (or being able to do) what this asshole is getting away with. He knows the Dems lack the balls (or ovaries, whatever the case may be) to do anything. Heck even Rove is showing his mug on FOX every other day just to laugh his ass on the Dems general direction.
Deep down you have to admire their sheer will to be assholes until the bitter end, and the end will be in their very own terms...
There was NEVER any way Obama'd actually use the full power of the State to bring 'em to Justice.
A couple of reasons:
1) Precedent. That is, there is none, for prosecuting former Presidents for ANYTHING related to their conduct OF the office.
2) Popular sentiment. 46% of the people voted against Obama.
3) His own ass. Cuz if he actually DID pursue the Busheviks with the vigor they deserve, he'd be signing the warrant for the Pukes to persecute him, no matter what he did, if fo no other reason than to get 'evens.'
4) Juries. No jury could be empaneled which would convict the Busheviks if they claimed they acted to 'protect' the country. If the Clenis could have claimed that balling Lewinsky was in the national interest, he'd never have been touched.
court? Think Geneva Convention. Think international war crimes. Think, think, think. There are many ways to get these criminals. What the Dems lack is "desire." Too many went along with it.
why the Democrats are willing to let this go.
The obvious answer is that there is no difference of opinion between them and Cheney.
So they huff and puff a little for TV and then go out to dinner.
It's easy. They're smart enough to know that it's a no-win (ngo/nguyen, in vietnamese) situation. They CANNOT win. CANNOT WIN! Get it? CANNOT WIN.
No way. Period.
If they bring a couple of functionaries to trial, no big deal.
but there is NO WAY any of the big guys will EVER be called into Court to answer for their deeds...
NO FUCKING WAY!!!
..we'll elect a new President who will!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
?
Do you think the President will receive the same support from Progressives and Liberals if war crimes' trials aren't forthcoming? I don't and I will vocally and vociferously make that clear to the Democratic Party when the time is appropriate!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
almost non existent. It got a fatal wound at Kent State, Nixon made sure it went into a coma, Reagan pulled the plug, and Clinton said the eulogy at its funeral.
So yeah, Obama is sweating bullets to please the liberals. That is why he has thrown us under the bus once he got the few votes he needed and the useful idiots to print all the nice posters and do all the foot work.
We should understand that the left needs to be rebuilt before we get to overstate our importance. We can't even control the message regarding something as massively popular as health care reform. I doubt we can tackle such divisive things as prosecuting the Bush administration.
"we" need to do a lot of homework and footwork before "we" can be taken seriously.
Not that there's no truth in your post.
But the left ain't dead...not at all!
... having living extensively overseas, I can safely say there simply is no significant political left in this country. And that pisses me off to no extent, but trying to deny it is foolish IMHO.
Is there any significant political party in the US which is remotely leftist? No, the Dems are moderate conservatives for the most part under any political classification.
We have one of the lowest (if not the lowest right out) rates of unionization among he industrialized world.
We can't even get a significant voice in the health care reform. We are forced to accept compromises that would be political suicide for even the most conservative of politicians in the rest of the industrialized world.
The term socialist and liberal are used as an insult with impunity.
There are plenty of posters in this site who call themselves "liberal" who seem more concerned with the feelings of the conservatives than to stand and support actual liberal policies. They have no problem making fun of liberal causes though...
When was the last time we had a general strike?
Why is it still political suicide for any politician to recognize their atheism?
We don't even celebrate labor day when it is supposed to. Heck, most Americans don't even know that May Day is not a "commie holiday" but rather a celebration of the achievements of the American labor movement by the rest of the world.
Most of the policies of the last supposedly "liberal" president, Clinton, were to the right of Nixon's. The current "liberal" president, Obama, lists Reagan as one of the presidents he admires.
When was the last time the right in this country was on the defensive?
Etc, etc, etc. The left in this country is indeed pretty much extinct. We have a very strong centrist movement though, and most people seem to equate it with the left. Not so IMHO.
For the most part...I can't really argue with your post.
?
but maybe he is testifying against himself? Perhaps the DOJ is just giving him more and more and more ROPE...to hang himself. Not that he seems to need help.
He is insanely sure he was and is RIGHT about everything- that is a sign of insanity by itself.
I bet his lawyers are begging him to STFU and keep his head down, or loose it.
If Dick Cheney really thought he was going to be prosecuted, he'd short circuit his own pace maker.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
on the streetlights along Pennsylvania Ave.
But there is no way any of the 'bosses' will EVER face justice. As soon and as long as they can offer a defense that they were acting to protect the country, there is no WAY you'd ever impanel a jury that would unanimously convict 'em. Remember, even if only 25% of the country 'believes' the Bushies, that's enough to put at LEAST three members of any jury which would AUTOMATICALLY vote "not guilty."
Yes, Cheney is a jerk/criminal. But it doesn't seem very respectfull of Olbermann to use insults like "grampa" and "old man". Yes, he's old but so are our grandparents and they're not anything like him!
are you saying your grandpparents feel insulted when you call them grandpa? I can imagine your grandma might get a little upset if you call her grandpa.
To call Cheney 'grampa' as a putdown is an insult to grampas EVERYWHERE! And old men, too.
me-oww!
I see Olbermann, the less I like him.
exactly?
he just seems like a self-involved tight a-ssed mf.
I also didn't care for the fact that he brought race into a discussion with Bill Russell about Kennedy. It had nothing to do with the subject at hand. It felt racist in that way that liberals have.
I don't see him as being like that.
I bet he's a fairly amiable guy, unless you happen to be a idiot right winger...then all bets are off.
I missed that discussion you referenced.
So I can't really comment on it...but havin watched KO for years, he just doesn't appear to be a racist to me.
BTW your last sentence.
"It felt racist in that way that liberals have."
Care to elaborate on that one?
The unnecessary reference to race when in the company of a black person.
>"It felt racist in that way that liberals have."
>"The unnecessary reference to race when in the company of a black person."
The rest of us were talking about torture and Cheney's roll in it.
Try to keep up.
Such insults!
How about "The Accused"?
.
keep the pressure up. the reichwing is starting to show signs of anxiety about their role in fomenting terrorism
scahill deserves a medal--and i sure hope he is careful about his personal safety, he has pissed off some powerful and violent assholes
Scahill had better keep FAR AWAY from small planes and Hotel Rooms.
When Obama was swarn in. dick hurt his back, in a wheel chair, BullShit. he did this so he would NOT stand uo to show respect to the NEW President. what a true asshole to the end.
Seeing Dick in a wheelchair with his ominous black hat was hilarious.
Pure Dr. Strangelove.
the part I loved the most, was when he was being wheeled beside booosh on the way to his seat, then the lady pushin him makes a sudden left turn...the look on his face was friggin PRICELESS!!!
the repugs spent in the last 8 years. Its most likley trillions in 2 wars that if did right would be over now. Iraq should never had happen. there is about a trillion there. In the US there is about 70,000 bridges that could crash any day. Levies that could crash any day. Hell, the US is crumbling right befor us. Obama need to say, F-it. bring our military home,cut military spending. Quit giving war corporations millions to make a weapon. tell them, if You spend YOUR dime on a weapon and it is good, we might buy it. No more tax dollars for you to spend on making shit that is crap. spend your own money not free tax dollars. Obama needs to get real. the repugs will never help him on anything. There goal is for him to fail at any cost. repugs trashing America any way they can.
There are hardly any jobs, it produces just about nothing, the air is terribly polluted, the biggest crop grown is Monsantos' GMO corn for ethanol, schools produce fat stupid people, our health care industry is ranked 37th in the world, the infrastructure is collapsing, our water is polluted with drugs pissed into the sewers by people who need help getting boners and whose eyelashes are too thin, and from animal waste that comes from factory farming. I could go on for hours, but I am sure I made my point. And, essentially, the only thing people are willing to do about it is threaten to withhold their votes in the next election? Oh, please!
Yes, there does need to be a top-to-bottom criminal investigation. We already have a list of the main players: Bush, Cheney, Rove, Addington, Yoo, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Tenet, Rice, et al. But we also need a bottom-to-top investigation, a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, with power to subpoena and power to offer immunity to underlings in order to get the whole picture.
None of the old tomes of "we were just following orders" or "if the leader (president) does it, it isn't illegal" or "we kept the homeland (America) safe" passed muster in the Nuremberg Trials after WW-II. In this ever-increasingly interconnected world, it damn sure shouldn't pass muster today.
The statute of limitations does not apply to: torture, a war crime; torture resulting in death, a war crime and a civil case of murder; "preemptive war" based upon knowingly fabricated evidence, a war crime; OR naked greed in the form of war-profiteering under false pretenses, a case of treason AND conspiracy to commit treason.
Efforts by the criminal cabal also known as the Bush administration to lay all the blame on troops on the ground is unconscionable cowardice. Why is the Obama administration, as well as the Democratic leadership of the Majority party in both Houses of Congress so reticent to investigate AND prosecute the individuals involved?
I can guess. And I am sure that I have already disqualified myself from serving on that jury ...
Attorney General Eric Holder, do your duty, and get 'er done, ASAP!
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
The Statute of Limitations on the Torture Memos runs out next June.
And don't worry about this statement:
"And I am sure that I have already disqualified myself from serving on that jury ..." Remember they are innocent until proven guilty so you can sit in the jury box with an open mind and convict them as soon as they open their big, fat stupid mouths and say they tortured to keep the country safe! Boom - nailed it right there!
"Attorney General Eric Holder, do your duty, and get 'er done, ASAP!" As to that, I concur!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
is almost a year away. A lot can happen in one year. The horse might learn to sing.
that the SOL on the Torture Memos runs out next June.
Why? The memos (plus whatever emails relating to same on email server backup tapes) would tend to reinforce charges of "conspiracy to commit" regarding war crimes. If there is no SOL on war crimes, then it should hold that there is also no SOL on "conspiracy to commit" war crimes.
Any indication of efforts to destroy those backup tapes, or of CIA efforts to destroy video tapes, also would constitute "obstruction of justice" regarding the commission of war crimes. Again, how can peripheral actions associated with the war crimes charges NOT fall under the same constraints?
Whatever the criminal cabal also known as the Bush administration does to destroy evidence merely adds to the potential list of war crimes charges. This is why a 2 pronged investigation (Top-down & Bottom-up) is so important. Any underlings tasked with destroying evidence could testify under oath (and with either immunity or clemency) to help convict those in charge -- we also need the Truth and Reconciliation Commission with the power to subpoena AND power to grant immunity/clemency.
The objective: the whole truth, as well as legal consequences for the instigators. From that outcome will social justice and a chance for national healing arrive.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
Who knows what is being planned? One day I think Obama is a Wet Firecracker, a Sellout, next day He looks mighty sly. I'd bet on Obama if he were in a -cough- honest Poker game with Cheney. Or a dishonest one.
David762?
The War Crimes Act of 1996, a federal statute set forth at 18 U.S.C. § 2441, makes it a federal crime for any U.S. national, whether military or civilian, to violate the Geneva Convention by engaging in murder, torture, or inhuman treatment.
18 U.S.C. § 2441 has no statute of limitations, which means that a war crimes complaint can be filed at any time.
[http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002441----000-.html]
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
Thanks for the cite.
Political will ...
I suspect that the national Democratic leadership is so fearful of investigation AND prosecution because they believe it will tear the country apart at the seams. In case you haven't noticed, politics have gotten more and more divisive and polarized in the past couple of years, and especially since the November elections. Extending the hand of bipartisanship to the RethugliKKKlans is, IMHO, just a complete waste of time, political capital, and effort. The 20% (or 28%) of RethugliKKKlan Dead-Enders are, in my most charitable terms, a bunch of bat-shit crazy sociopathic anarchist racists, controlled by their Corporatist Cabal masters. There is no dealing with them; there is no negotiation with them -- the only thing to do is to treat them like the speed-bumps on the road to progress that they are. Time to draw a line in the sand, and begin prosecuting the rabble-rousers and inciters of violence among them.
It will take a bit more time before our Democratic leadership finally come to their senses, and acknowledge that they must stand on their own 2 legs, take responsibility for the path they choose, and move forward to take care of "we the people's" business. Some serious and sustained pressure from the liberal progressive net-roots would be useful ...
Just saying ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
You have a Traitor, Racist, Nazi plying himself as some type of self appointed saviour, then you have the other Wing NUTS, like grassley, Mn representative wackoman, the unhinged palin the swallower, then think of the philanderers, child molesters thieves Liars and Cheats in the right wing.
This being the Party of NO and Party Loyalty with SOCIALIZED CORPORATE Interest first foremost and always I'm not ready for any SCUM BAG Repukulan to be elected ever again.
wanted to start another WAR with "IRAN". WTF is with this guy. he needs to be locked up if not the war crimes, he is "NUTS".
Darth Cheney is "NUTS" for OIL and War-Profiteering. Please note that the USA has not, as yet, started a "preemptive" war with with any country without vast oil reserves, or in the planning stages for oil/gas pipelines (think Afghanistan here) from same (or Caspian Sea Oil & Gas Fields).
Tricky Dick is one purely evil fuck-tard, and at least 1/2 of his progeny (Lynn) is also so infected. Sorry to say, but it sure helps make the case for selective forced euthanasia and preemptive abortion -- or war crimes & treason trials with a hangman's noose as the outcome.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
Those that CATAPULTED THE PROPAGANDA, like all those on FOX. They need to hang as the co-conspirators to treason they are. And MURDOCH and Ailes.
[Note to self: Better get heavier rope.]
parachute cord.
Strong, light weight, and you can pack more of it when the time comes ... 8^)
Just saying ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
Terrorists first attacked the World Trade Center in 1993, early on in President Clinton's first year in office. Six people were killed, hundreds more were injured. The Clinton administration caught those responsible, subjected them to the U.S. criminal justice system, and foreign terrorists did not strike again on U.S. soil during Clinton's terms in office.
So, at any point in 2001, did the Bush White House turn to Bill Clinton and Al Gore and ask, "How did you do it? What were the keys to keeping this country safe over that period of time?"
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/ind...
I keep a jar of peanut butter out on the kitchen counter to keep rhinoceroses away. It's been working for 44 years so far.
... I don't think it is 420 yet anywhere in the continental US or US territories. Rock on though... rock on...
sit back and relax. It is always 420 somewhere on the dial, right? Not like you cannot vicariously join in.
BTW, I expect 420 PM (16:20 hrs) on 19 September 2009 to really be memorable.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
09/09/09 is a much more "memorable" date than 19/09/09 unless you can travel back one century, or it is your birthday ;-)
it is "Free Marc Emory Day".
Sorry if you didn't get the reference. I made an assumption that you would have gotten the date reference, the same way that I assumed that I understood your reference to the 4:20 time-frame.
Oops! Sometimes Google is our friend. All seriously OT.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
Iran has 'updated nuclear package'
I think Sarah Palin just got a case of the vapors.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
The fact that this tired lying old fool, is allowed to go on the tee vee and lie like a rug. Such ignorant lying bullshit.
This guy deserves a long stretch in prison.
republicanism is a mental illness!
I love Jeremy Scahill. He's one intense very smart dude. He doesn't hold back or put up with any BS.
It will never happen, for 2 reasons.
1, both parties are in on this whole thing, and no one wants to start the "if I go down, you go with me" storm.
2, both parties are enjoying the new power they have to do everything they want under the cover of "security" with no questions asks and no responsibility. They will not give up that power on their own. THEY WILL NOT.
As much as i don't want to sound like a defeatest. I don't think Bush or Cheney will ever be prosecuted so this "investigation" of low level peeps is just a dog and pony show. I doubt we will ever live to see true justice. Mr. Scahill is a brave soul I must say.
... the Treaty we signed says if we don't do it other signatories will.
That would be a shame. If we can't clean our own house someone will.
In a better world:
Cheney prosecuted for admitted obvious War Crimes. Obvious sentence.
Bush found incompetent to undergo trials. Mitigating, but obvious sentence.
Ashcroft, ameliorating circumstances, tried but didn't succeed. 10-15 years.
Gonzales, one of the worst of the worst. Not just an enabler, but a willing and enthusiastic supporter. Obvious sentence.
John Yoo, not just an enabler, but a willing and enthusiastic supporter. Obvious sentence.
But that's just a better world.
There is no perfect world.
including this one with Keith...
BUT
when he made the slur about McCain not knowing torture
I couldn't help wonder if Skahill really knew about McCain.
I'm not a vet but I know the administration transcending rule about knocking guys who
went to the Hanoi Hilton - Don't.
AND
to say that Bush lawyers' interpretation of law, in order to use torture is "a stretch" doesn't strengthen the notion that prosecuting the higher-ups is warranted. Custom torture laws were no more "a stretch" than checks can bounce.
These "chats" with Kieth and the others have to stop because war crimes prosecution is serious enough not to feel too often compelled into name dropping the likes of Sarah Palin as a soft interviewer. KO and Skahill could have had done a serious interview that sets the tone. Kieth should stop using Skahill as a ratings boost and get down to the business of laying prosecutions out on the table.
When it looks like no one is watching the store, there's going to be cigarettes and beer missing at least.
The store is justice and if prices are column discounted for special friends, no one else can give a shit.
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