Countdown: Dan Savage on the Dangers of the GOP Pandering to the Religious Right
By Heather Wednesday Sep 02, 2009 10:00am
Keith Olbermann talks to Dan Savage about how dangerous the GOP's strategy for the last thirty years of pandering to the religious right has been, and how they're now left with the bat-shit crazy like Michelle Bachmann speaking for them.
Olbermann: How do they twist the idea of say, just pick a figure out of a hat here that Jesus Christ and the golden rule, taking care of particularly the sick and turn this into opposition to health care? In a sense if they’re trying to emulate Christ, if they can’t personally heal disease in passers-by, should they not be willing to help doctors to do so?
Savage: I’m sure they don’t want to hear this from me because I’m an avowed atheist but my dad was a Roman Catholic deacon and my mom was a minister and I went to the seminary and I was confirmed in the Catholic church. I’ve read the Bible backwards and forwards and there’s a lot in there, a lot that Jesus had to say about taking care of the sick, housing the homeless, feeding the hungry, visiting, not executing the prisoner and nothing about capital gains tax cuts, nothing about denying health care coverage to American families and American children and nothing about this sort of insane opposition to a democratically elected president.
They really have hi-jacked Christianity and are giving it a bad name. The reason we see spikes I think in more and more people who no longer associate themselves with any religious faith or belief is because now to say you’re Christian in America means you are saying I am in the same boat, the same bat crap crazy boat with Michelle Bachmann. And a lot of even nominal Christians don’t want to say that any more or cultural Christians don’t want to say that any more.
Olbermann: Well strip the religion out of it and stick to the ethics of religion which is often very useful even to people who don’t believe and we don’t know if anybody who booed the late Senator Kennedy at the Schakowsky town hall belonged to the religious far right, but I mean I got heat for saying that Ronald Reagan is dead and he was a lousy president and I waited for four or five years until after he died to say it that bluntly just out of respect for the dead. Haven’t the ethics of these folks, the religious and non-religious alike in the opposition just been all over the map?
Savage: Well when you have a party that claims to speak for god and claims that god is on its side the rhetoric heats up and the anger heats up. This is not just a battle about ideas and positions and what’s good for the country and bad for the country, it’s a battle about what god wants and what god doesn’t want and you’re, it’s easier to demagogue about your enemies and despise them than to humanize them in this really personal and vicious way. I mean, the religious right is fomenting this kind of hatred in this country and at our peril.
I really do think that the Michelle Bachmanns of the world and the Glenn Becks of the world are actively and consciously or subconsciously just trying to get, I’m just going to say it, trying to get the President killed. That’s why they’re setting this up as a kill or be killed arguments. He’s going to kill your grandma, pull the plug on grandma, death panels that little children have to go in front of. This kind of rhetoric, this paranoid style of the religious right from you know, Birchers to birthers doesn’t usually end well and we somebody’s got to put the brakes on it. Unfortunately for the Republican party, there are no adults left in the room, there are only the Michelle Bachmanns and the Glenn Becks and the Rush Limbaughs running the show.






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When did that happen? Is this a new development? Whaaaaaaaa?
For a minute there I thought you said, "What, the GOP pampering the religious right?!?!?!?!?"
implies... ;-)
it was putting them in the branded diapers that their infantile behavior warrants.
his thoughts on this.
David is now in Huggies. Pull ups. He's a big boy now.
"I really do think that the Michelle Bachmann’s of the world and the Glenn Beck’s of the world are actively and consciously or subconsciously just trying to get, I’m just going to say it, trying to get the President killed."
I'm goin with consciously.
If you're claiming that Bachmann is conscious of her acts and speech, you're gonna have to prove it!
But that doesn't mean she ain't crazier'n a junebug.
Can't she then claim to be not guilty (of conscious acts) by reason of insanity? But getting serious for a moment, I think Michelle is so dense that she is easily manipulated and is a perfect tool of her sponsors.
but a tool nonetheless.
It's just a charming blend of epistlemology and Tourette's Syndrome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GhQSwMdXJc
http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/doc-savage/...
Unfortunately the Republican party, there are adults left in the room, there are only the Michelle Bachmann’s and the Glenn Beck's and the Rush Limbaugh’s running the show.
I think you left out some words i.e. "Unfortunately for the Republican party, there are no adults left in the room,......
Plus, usage of the apostrophe on the surnames is incorrect, since it signifies possession. "....the Michelle Bachmanns and the Glenn Becks..." is correct.
(Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.)
I'm not a professional transcriber and trying to do it when you're dead tired doesn't help either. I wrote this last night and had it up at Video Cafe well before it was promoted.
or so claim thier fans...
It's all here...and it is not limited to any political party.
http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secret-Fundament...
are two different things.
And the GOP is doing both.
Like corporate bean-counters who figure out just how many can die due to their corporate policies and still turn a profit, you better believe the back-room manipulators of the GOP looked at how riled up Palin got people during the campaign and they have figured out just how far they are willing to take a chance on blood in the streets if it will bring a good probability of ridding them of Obama.
I'm sure they are also aware of the entire generation of power they won by RFK and MLK having been so successfully removed.
If Obama lives, he will hurt their power base and their profit margin - any lives lost to avert such a possibility would mean no more to them than the rotting bodies in New Orlean's 9th ward.
They don't care who dies if they can get their way - as long as it isn't them.
Seems to me that we need to balance that equation for them.
> Seems to me that we need to balance that equation for them.
Just give them the rope ........
Romans 13:1, re: the New International Version:
"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established."
Hence, the Bible says that Obama's presidency is God's work.
... ain't you got it yet? God wasn't talkin' 'bout no black fella.
In fact, you may recall that the Bush Administration was preparing evangelical ministers to pitch that line in the event they had to declare martial law.
so clearly he can't be doing God's work... ; )
when you lay down with dogs, dance with the devil, make strange bedfellows.....
When, in the end, all you are about is winning then you do whatever it takes to win. You would think that the religious right would at some point determine that they are being used, for all the times that the Repubs have been in power none of their pet projects have seen fruition. No, they come in and stir the pot and get them all agitated about the gays wanting to marry, or saving babies so you can send them to war and they trot out their faithful to vote and they never really get what they want.
You've got
Marvin the MartianMichael Steele heading up the GOP."Where's the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering KA-BOOM!?!?!?!"
thanks for pointing out the Marvin the Martian comparison - perfect.
Religion is what they need it to be. Quite simple really.
What these so-called Christian leaders practice is not religion.
It is authoritarianism, intimidation and all the tools of cultism.
And please don't equate all religions with cults, you folks know what I mean.
Jesus has been appropriated by these charlatans, just as progressive social programs have been and are being appropriated by the GOP to advance an agenda.
unfortunately, as with everything else, the sensational gets the press. I know some real, true Christians. They are moral, they are charitable, they do not judge, etc. You know, it's really a lot to live up to, being a true Christian. Most of these people were never really up for it, it's one more thing to game or play.
My own faith has been emboldened by these circus clowns.
It keeps me going that there is at least the possibility that they will all be burning in hell for eternity.
... my faith remains as it always was.
It doesn't depend on validation through someone else's damnation, just as the sanctity of my marriage is between myself, my wife, and my God.
Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned wienie roast.
My supreme being has a first name
It's O-S-C-A-R.
My supreme being has a last name.
It's M-A-Y-E-R.
And come the final judgment day
'Burn in hell' is what I'll say
'Cause Oscar Mayer has a way
Of getting rid of all you say about a Christian USA.
...Christian principals. Odd thing though is that most of them are Buddhists.
All religions are cults,some more dangerous than others...
Christiansity and Islam are the worst of the bunch...
Just out of curiosity, exactly which "progressive social programs have been and are being appropriated by the GOP"?
Dana Gould nailed them pukers down in a few seconds on Real Time, no one has beat his description yet IMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21_teAW0Zg
just another episode of the evangelicals getting used. when will these Pagans learn they're being used and often vote against their own best interest(s). personally, i'm sick and tired of these judgemental hypocrites. if health care refrom gets defeated or diluted you can partially blame these idiots.
Dan Savage is, rhetorically speaking, a model liberal. He's plain spoken and tells the truth in a simple, direct way that shows up the Republicans for what they are. He calls bullshit but doesn't talk down to people, like so many on our side do. Jebus, but I wish we had more like him.
He laid out the truth in no uncertain terms in a way that no other guest has been able to do until now. Oh, how I wish Beck & O'Reilly would invite him on their shows, but that won't ever happen because, in the words of Jack Nicholson, they "can't handle the truth".
We need more people like Dan speaking up more often, about what the opposition is trying to do. If the conservatives win this argument, I shudder to think what will become of America as we now know it.
have me totally confused.
It's conservative lore that Reagan the icon cut taxes, while George H.W. Bush the renegade raised them. As Stockman recalls, "No one was authorized to talk about tax increases on Ronald Reagan's watch, no matter what kind of tax, no matter how justified it was." Yet raising taxes is exactly what Reagan did. He did not always instigate those hikes or agree to them willingly--but he signed off on them. One year after his massive tax cut, Reagan agreed to a tax increase to reduce the deficit that restored fully one-third of the previous year's reduction. (In a bizarre bit of self-deception, Reagan, who never came to terms with this episode of ideological apostasy, persuaded himself that the three-year, $100 billion tax hike--the largest since World War II--was actually "tax reform" that closed loopholes in his earlier cut and therefore didn't count as raising taxes.)
http://firedoglake.com/2009/02/01/newsflash-r...
Faced with looming deficits, Reagan raised taxes again in 1983 with a gasoline tax and once more in 1984, this time by $50 billion over three years, mainly through closing tax loopholes for business. Despite the fact that such increases were anathema to conservatives--and probably cost Reagan's successor, George H.W. Bush, reelection--Reagan raised taxes a grand total of four times just between 1982-84.
in FICA, the removal of credit interest as a deductible and sales taxes.
Reagan lowered taxes on the wealthy (from 70% to 28%), increased payroll taxes 44%, raised the national debt from $700 billion to $3 trillion (Ah, those were the days - only three trillion debt!), and turned the US from the world's largest creditor into the world's largest debtor nation.
And they flew the flag at half-mast for a month when that asshole died.
when that asshole died."
I think they raised it a little too far, if you asked me.
We knew that Christain theofascists were going to be a growing problem in 1988 -- and even before. Intellectuals, atheists, et al. have been yelling loudly about the growing cult fascism and treason that Christian loons advocate and push for.
It's the best one ouit there in print...
That is all, carry on.
Dan Savage before, but on Keiths' show he hit it out of the park several times.I sure hope he becomes a regular on the show.Richard Wolfe doesn't hold a candle to this guy.More Dan Savage and Lawrence O'Donnell please, Keith.
maybe I'm thinkin of david wolfe...anyway.
Lawrence needs his own show.
from 7-8 pm instead of a rebroadcast of tweeeeety.
And this Savage guy...I hadn't heard of him either, but I agree...he rocks.
You poor deprived sausages!
Here is the sex advice column he's written for ages:
Savage Love and ithink he does it as a radio show or a podcast, and is Editorial Director for The Stranger, the only paper worth reading in Seattle anymore.
Plus he's a loving partner and adoptive dad, who has kept life interesting around these parts.
It's not so difficult... Beck and Levin and Limbaugh and crew all would
dearly appreciate it if one of their own would martyr themselves and
reach for that snipper rifle(not anyone of them of course)and do for them
what they cannot do themselves or by vote- kill the President. They are almost being
quite open about assassination and if it were to actually happen they would
all express fake remorse for the family and poor children while shrugging their collective
shoulders and looking behind them and saying "you looking at ME"?
I think someone would promptly return the favor.
and what he's saying is nothing new, but he is saying it nationally and goes further by saying Bachmann and Anderson are encouraging their nut-job followers to murder. It isn't said much, ever, and needs to be said every day. And Dan and I are the ones dismissed as delusional for not believing religious clap-trap. At least there are more of us every day, finally seeing reason.
Not everyone who is a conservative Christian is a moron. Some of them are awakening to the fact they have been played for fools by the Republicans. The fallout from this revelation will be fun to behold!
Keith should have him on more often. He mentioned Dan was filling in after a problem getting Markos and the show was better for it. Markos is irritating on camera with that constant grin and mush mouth and whiny voice. Hopefully we see Dan again soon. Makes a nice change from the same predictable faces night after night. I end up fast forwarding through most of the show.
Not only do these religious nut bags vote, they get elected.
Dear god, please protect me from those who believe in you.
...that I believe has merit and I’ve not seen any articles that have weighed these noted events'.
IMHO, roughly speaking (R)epublicans are overwhelmingly, a very rigid religious party. They, more so then the (D)emocrats, tend to favor private entities vs. government. Many of the more radical republicans and their constituents… or should I say most, believe that god has ordained our government. They want our government to act in accordance with their spiritual ideologies and continue to work ardently towards these goals.
I don’t know enough about the Fourteenth Amendment from a political sponsorship perspective, but I’m aware of a couple key factors. Snip – “But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.” And additionally I believe Corporations’ became recognized as citizens as well, in this very same amendment. Sometime between 1890 and 1910 roughly 307 cases went before the courts… 288 brought by Corporations and 19 brought by African Americans (freed Slaves)*
I must bring my Son to work in a few minutes and go to a Town hall this evening in CT, so I’ll bluntly layout my opinions for consideration. They will kill over the abortion issue and secretly applaud/welcome it, that’s a fact. They know their best chance to reach their goals, are to get their ideologies into government and preferably judicial positions. They know that we are a nation of laws and they want to shape our laws accordingly. You’ll hear them repeatedly reference “Liberty” and as you may know, they’re primarily concerned about religious liberty and the like, not unlike the concerns held towards the church of England back in the day.
I can see a plausible pathway through Corporations and as a matter of fact, JEFF SHARLET speaks of it in his book [THE FAMILY](See below). They can defiantly get their ideas/beliefs instituted into our government in a couple ways. Tax-free religious entities, the ones with the big bucks… because they’re not taxed and the Corporations, whom since the 14th amendment, have garnered civil rights as people to petition congress and buy them off accordingly. The issues that are bought and paid for by the Corporation’s lobbyists affect both parties, though the political ramifications are weighed respectively.
As you may have seen recently, the tremendous fervor of the bible thumpers against this health-care reform is seated in their zeal for religiosity. The sheeple you may see, will often speak poorly of the money grubbing Corporations, but the Shepard’s in government see a viable asset in the Corporations for a few reasons, one being financial backing, with a kind of I’ll scratch your back, you scratch mine system, and we’ll both be better off for it… democracy be damned.
When our courts judges and elected representatives ignore the secular premise of our Constitution and are swayed by unscrupulous attorneys, as they were when they recognized Corporations as people, in the 14th amendment, we will often become tainted as a result.
What we’re seeing now before us is evolution, the numbers clearly show that big money making religion is hurting (as are most of us) and religion in general is waning. There are many people that need religion to operate for their well-being, some personal, some financial. To a lot of them, facts be damned and certain people too.
Sometime between 1890 and 1910 roughly 307 cases went before the courts… 288 brought by Corporations and 19 brought by African Americans (freed Slaves)* Look at 2:15 through 4:00
THE CORPORATION [2/23] Birth:
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg&NR=1 ]
Timing is everything. ;)
Snip - PALOS HEIGHTS — The top-selling Bible in North America will undergo its first revision in 25 years, modernizing the language in some sections and promising to reopen a contentious debate about changing gender terms in the sacred text.
[ http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/09/01/3214... ]
[THE FAMILY] appears below...
The one word that does not appear in the notes on his life Abram prepared near the end of his life, when instead of sheepskin he wore silk and gabardine, when instead of miners and cowboys he preached to senators and presidents is power. But in 1935, when Abram was just beginning to dream his real ministry, he wrote the word once, in the margin of a church program. It was at the bottom of a list of names of men he had recruited. Besides each was a responsibility: organization, finances. Beside his own name, he wrote power—and then crossed it out. If it must be said, it can't be had. Power, Abram realized as he moved through the high corner offices of businessmen and leaders, has nothing to do with forcing the devil behind you or making the company increase your wages. Power lies in things as they are. God had already chosen the powerful, his key men. There they are, Jesus whispered in Abram's ear; go and serve them.
Throughout the 1920s, Abram directed Seattle's division of Goodwill Industries. He didn't just open stores for used clothes; he organized 49,000 housewives into thirty-seven districts and set them to work salvaging goods for the poor. In 1932, Franklin Roosevelt, governor of New York, invited Abram to his office to discuss his organizing system. Later he'd come to see Russian red running through out Roosevelt's New Deal, but at the time Abram was captivated by another man summoned to advise the governor, James Augustine Farrell, president of the United States Steel Corporation. Abram had met industry chiefs before then, but here was a titan. A tall, stern man of dark suits and high collars, Farrell had led U.S. Steel for decades, since not long after its creation as the biggest business enterprise in history, and he had a reputation as an industrial free thinker. The year before he'd rebuked a group of businessmen for treating workers like animals. Farrell looked on his employees more like children. Big business, he believed, ought to act as a big brother, and to that end he insisted that the age of competition had passed; captains of industry must be freed of antitrust legislation so that they might better council together for the good of the innocent and the poor.
Abram fixed his rapt attention on the "steel shogun," as the press of the time called the industrialist. "Mr. Farrell reviewed the history of America," he'd remember, "and pointed out that we have had nineteen depressions—five major ones—and that every one was caused by disobedience to divine laws." Farrell offered no evidence for his dismissal of economic factors, but he did have a solution on hand. "Now," Abram recorded his words, "I am a Roman Catholic and we don't go in much for revivals and such things, but I am sure as I am sitting here that if we don't get a thorough revival of genuine religion ... with a return to prayer and the Bible"—an oddly Protestant aim—"we are headed for chaos." Farrell suggested that the time had come for the "leaders of industry" to take the reins not just of the economy but of the entire nation in order to restore it to a godly path.
Farrell, a former steelworker himself and thus living proof in his own mind that equal opportunity existed for all, was likely too modest to mention U.S. Steel's own efforts in this regard; most notably, its relief program for the Pennsylvania steeltown of Farrell, renamed just that year in honor of the great man himself. A desperate measure by a community of 30,000 utterly dependent on U.S. Steel and starving because of that fact. In Farrell, U.S. Steel fought the spiritual roots of its economic woes not through revival but by evicting from company housing those who were not part of the nation's godly heritage: foreign-born workers, black workers, and even the old white men who had built Farrell and now approached retirement and pensions. U.S. Steel replaced them all with young peons paid low wages. It was not a matter of getting the job done, since the mills were shuttered and there was no work to be done. U.S. Steel simply saw an opportunity for a correction.
But then, so did the men and women whom companies such as U.S. Steel were liquidating. It's hard now, in the present United States, to imagine the fear that attended the Depression years, and harder still to remember the anger. Most forgotten of all is the optimism of ordinary people pushed to an edge over which they peered and saw not the abyss they had been told by their employers and their politicians awaited them, but—maybe, if they built it themselves—a future dramatically different from the past.
–JEFF SHARLET (chap. 4 pp. 95-97)
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis, 1935 novel "It Can't Happen Here".
What else happened around that time? "The Pledge of Allegiance"
It still was an "unofficial" pledge until June 22, 1942 when the United States Congress included the Pledge to the Flag in the United States Flag Code (Title 36). This was the first Official sanction given to the words that had been recited each day by children for almost fifty years...
...The last change in the Pledge of Allegiance occurred on June 14 (Flag Day), 1954 when President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved adding the words "under God".
"A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States."
Harry S. Truman...was the 33rd President of the United States (1945–1953). As the 34th vice president, he succeeded Franklin D. Roosevelt, who died less than three months after he began his fourth term."Truman replaced vice president Henry A. Wallace as Roosevelt's running mate in 1944."
President Truman signed the first National Prayer Day proclamation... President Reagan made it a permanent occasion! Under Bush, the day was a political event.
Henry A. Wallace, In the 1948 presidential election, Wallace was the nominee of the Progressive Party
A fascist is one whose lust for money or power is combined with such an intensity of intolerance toward those of other races, parties, classes, religions, cultures, regions or nations as to make him ruthless in his use of deceit or violence to attain his ends. --Henry A. Wallace
[Henry A Wallace had missed being the 33rd President of the United States by just 82 days.]
[ http://thirdbranch.crooksandliars.com/big-ten... ]
(Fresh Air - NPR) 1/3
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsi2UCG4AoU ]
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