Chris Matthews Show: Who's Winning the Argument on Closing Guantanamo Bay?
Chris Matthews "big question" for this week is who's winning the debate over whether to close Gitmo or not. We get treated to this bit of mumbo jumbo by New York Magazine's John Heilemann in response.
Heilemann: Well on the question though, on the substance of it, the administration's winning the argument because they're right and it's crazy to think that we couldn't integrate it, that we couldn't have these prisoners brought on shore with no risk to the American society.
On the politics conservatives are winning this argument because people are afraid of what the implications would be and I don't think the NIMBY argument, not in my back yard argument, as a political matter is still winning the day right now.
I think Heilemann misspoke since he contradicted himself in the same sentence. It was the end of the show and possibly Matthews wasn't listening to him that carefully since he did't catch the slip, but he said he agrees with him and I would guess it was with what he was trying to say, which is that the Cheney's of the world and the GOP are winning the game of keeping Americans terrified.
That said here's my beef with this. How do you say that the President is correct and that it's "crazy" not to think terrorist suspects could be brought to the U.S. and in the next sentence say the ones who are spreading the crazy with trying to scare the hell out of everyone are winning the argument without qualifying why?
If the NIMBY argument is still winning the day it's because not enough of you "journalists" are calling it out for being "crazy" and explaining to the public how the GOP is fear mongering for political gain. Maybe when Chris Matthews ever bothers to take this seriously as a matter of criminal justice instead of political gain and the silliness of who's "winning and losing" we'll have some better dialog on the topic from one of his shows. I'm not holding my breath for any hope of that happening soon.
In the mean time we are subjected to a give me your opinion in thirty seconds or less round table of nonsense on a topic that deserves a much more serious and lengthy debate.
it's ludicrous to opine that the united states with it's huge incarceration rate doesn't have the high serurity prisons capable of holding the most hardened and dangerous individuals safely.
the real reason those that are playing NIMBY and fearmongering is they are afraid of re-establishing the rule of law; restoring habeas corpus rights and transparancy to the process. it terrifies them. they're afraid we'll see that they've also tortured innocents.
to keep the truth from escaping.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Harding, Montana, has already shot holes in the NIMBY argument because the residents WANT a prison and the jobs it would bring there, so there goes that argument. The American public also wants it closed.
The terrorists used airplanes on 9/11. Where are these "hardened" terrorists going to find an airplane in prison?
The inmates already housed in American prisons are more hardened than these "hardened terrorists."
The big problem has always been that no one has proved these suspects guilty of anything.
Those that were honest battlefield captures could have ben tried under the UCMJ.
Those we still have in custody have had any potential evidence so tainted by torture that they may never see trial.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Lots of tainted and missing evidence. The Omar Khadr case is a good example. Stephen Harper is ignoring the recent order of a Federal Court judge who ordered Khadr's repatriation back to Canada. While Harper is appealing the judge's order, Khadr remains in limbo in that hellhole. I will never forgive Harper for that.
How much of a threat to the public can the detainees be?
After years of confinement in Gitmo, most of them are forever emotionally and/or physically destroyed.
Imagine that once these prisoners start talking to lawyers, the truth will come out about the way they were swept up en masse by untrustworthy informants who were paid by the head by the U.S.
We are under the rule and control of this Global Empire and the military is calling the shots for the elected officials on what they can and can not do..
What you hear on the new media is BS and propaganda...
Just think how Clinton was attack for his 8 years administration and finally they trapped him in a lie about sex and impeached him.
Now just look at the many crimes , corruption and the criminal transfer of our wealth and power to this global Empire and nothing is say or done about it..
They are ALL in this corruption up to the necks...
We are being played for a sucker by both parties..
Obams and the democrats have not keep any of his or thier promises made to us..
We have the same type of tyrant government that we had a revolution to cut off its strangle hold on us.
Our jobs and economy is given to this Global Empire to spread around the world with their partners to purge any control or power Americans might have...
As far as I am concern this economical disaster was planned and the most efficient method for The government to cut our socials programs , union , retirement , Medicare and say their is nothing they could do their hands are tied to stop it.
We have seem what the Global Empire does when it gets our war contracts and even helped by the government to transfer our manufacturing plants and jobs overseas..
None
...They are out to get you!
There is something bigger behind the obvious discrepency between the ways that Democratic and Republican Administrations are treated by the MSM. But it is not as organized or centralized as an Empire.
Its more like an idiot savant demon. Frightfully powerful but as childish and socially inept as any 5 year old.
It plays on the arrogant inadequates that makes up the Ayn Randites and lets them believe that they are the rightful rulers of the Earth. They are pawns.
But pawns can take a queen.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
is what are republicans trying to hide with this bogus nimby argument? Torture chambers perhaps?
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
They are trying to fing wedge issues for purely partisan gain.
They couldn't care less about National Security or NIMBY. They just want to get elected.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Ya, and they never knew before that they have to serve and to know about government and the constitution to be elected.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
They were entirely innocent and happened to get ratted out by informants who were paid by the U.S. per name.
NIMBY is silly. We've had much scarier terrorists like McVeigh and Rudolph in prison before. We've had serial killers, like Manson and Bundy. We've had gangsters, like Gotti. And somehow, we've managed to keep them in prison.
"Innocence is no bar to upholding a conviction"
Nor is it a reason not to hold someone for the remainder of his life.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
June 2005, the United States Department of Defense announced that a unit of defense contractor Haliburton would build a new $1 billion USD detention facility and security perimeter around the base.
Mission Accomplished
A one billion dollar rip off of the American Taxpayers.
not in my backyard and Americans are afraid, are the republicans and their pundits. Since when have Americans become a bunch of cowards? The only cowards I see are the republicans like Bush and Cheney who didn't serve their country.
We know the republicani are beyond reasoning with. Maybe the MSM talking heads have the very same disease as the Republicans. I'm afraid they are totally co-dependant on each other.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
seems to be the media's model for "the shows" these days.
...that Chris Matthews doesn't hear the answer, that the answer is self contradicting, and that Matthews says he agrees with it anyway. But the worst thing about him is that he treats politics as though it was a sport. It doesn't matter who fouls as long as they don't get caught, and it's not his job to call fouls. That's the voters' job. So he might as well spend his whole show just asking, "what are people out there thinking and what can so and so say to win the point?" An effective lie then becomes a brilliant play to him.
why does anyone listen to tweety.
he does not listen to his own guests.
it's like asking a bag of shit to
turn itself into a chocolate bar...never happen.
?
I mean c'mon. Supporting an 'argument' about this plays into the hands of the right.
Time to show them the palm and move alnog. They'll get the message:
IT'S NOT YOUR FREAKING BALL GAME ANYMORE, ASSCLOWNS.
Now, piss off.
me-oww!
and the rest of the MSM should take a MINUTE and listen to what the real experts say - the military guys and the interrogators. They have mostly said: Gitmo should be closed, keeping it open incites more insurgents, most of the people they're still holding are not going to be a problem - some would be released if they had trials as they are innocent - the others could be accommodated at any of a number of our maximum-security prisons.
The only reason Obama is not following through and closing the facility is that someone has made it very clear to him that it would not be in his best interests to do so.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
what do you mean by "not following through"? Is there a development i missed?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
You know, they can argue all they want, but the fight is over. Guantanamo IS closing. I believe that was a Presidential Executive Order. You know, the one that said close it down within a year? I could have sworn I heard him say that.
Is it possible that the Republican Elite (oxymoron) still believes that holding these prisoners on foreign soil somehow negates our responsibilities under the constitution and international law?
Long sentence, huh?
But is that it? Did the civics lessons on extraterritoriality elude these geniuses?
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
I'm sure that's what our home grown hitler boy thought when he set up the
concentration campprison.Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
Once the conservative admits that terrorist suspects aren't supervillains, the debate's over.
Bill Moyers and Michael Winship, in Everyone Should See 'Torturing Democracy', quote the NY Times:
There it is ..
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
But it isn't working. Americans know there are high security prisons that they can't escape from, so intelligent people don't fear anything except having the Rethugs in power again to screw America up again.
"That said here's my beef with this. How do you say that the President is correct and that it's "crazy" not to think terrorist suspects could be brought to the U.S. and in the next sentence say the ones who are spreading the crazy with trying to scare the hell out of everyone are winning the argument without qualifying why?"
It IS crazy not to think terror suspects could be brought to the US.
It IS the case where spreading crazy and fear could win out.
Both are consistent. Just because a rational argument is presented does not mean it has won over opinion compared to a fear-based rant of rubbish.
Comments are closed on this entry