Chris Matthews Show: Panel Excuses Lack of Potential Torture Prosecutions
The panel of Bob Woodward, Kelly O'Donnell, Anne Kornblut and Howard Fineman making excuses for the Obama administration and Congress if there are no prosecutions for torture committed by the Bush administration.
Matthews: How do you read that...what he just said?
Woodward: No. In other words he's not going to, he doesn't want investigations. I mean if, first of all in some of these things, it's so ambiguous and uh, he has got to get beyond the past. He does not want to create the feeling, which in a sense this week he did create by saying he's going to close Guantanamo, that the war on terror is over. It is not over. What he said is some of the tactics, namely torture and harsh interrogation tactics are gone but the war continues and if there is a, some sort of perpetual investigation of these things the message will be we're going soft and I tell you those in the intelligence world and the military and I think Obama himself doesn't want to send that message.
Matthews: Well let's talk about the Republicans on the Hill. What are they worried, aren't they trying to hold Eric Holder's feet to the fire and say "Promise you won't launch an investigation as our new Attorney General".
O'Donnell: Well one of the problems is if they do dig back into all of these things you do lose some of the Republicans support and President Obama's trying to reach out. You also reinforce what detractors of the Bush/Cheney years already think. So there's very little political upside. And so Eric Holder has been certainly tested and they definitely, Republicans definitely want to be able to feel like they can stick with their strong principle of defense without having to worry about digging back into some of those things.
Matthews: Yeah. Anne obviously the people on the left, the netroots people, John Conyers up on the Hill, they want action. They want some kind of at least an extra-legal kind of truth and reconciliation commission like you had in South Africa that doesn't prosecute but does investigate.
Kornblut: And yet we haven't heard any signal from Obama or the White House itself that they would authorize that, encourage it. Even something that would be as sort of as benign as a truth and reconciliation commission, every indication is they want to leave that to reporters, historians. They want to move on, you know the Hill can do what the Hill can do, but they're not behind it.
Matthews: Well why did we prosecute people at Abu Ghraib for abusing prisoners if we're not going to prosecute people who may have authorized that kind of treatment?
Fineman: It is an issue. But Obama has to run the country and he and the leaders of the Democratic Party on the Hill have said "It's not worth the cost". I mean I know that Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate wants no parts of this. Whatever John Conyers is going to do on the House side, he's going to do and you'll hear a lot of noise from him and maybe some investigations. But it's not going to be backed up by the Democratic leadership in Congress. It just isn't.
(crosstalk)
Woodward: Well who would you investigate and prosecute? I mean the people who did these interrogations and so forth believed with good reason they had authority from the President.
Matthews: They had orders.
Woodward: Now you know it's too late to impeach Bush. It's over.
Human garbage in suits.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
For DC elites like these, the only considerations are political and personal. They don't care that Bushco broke hundreds of laws, tortured, murdered, committed a catastrophic war of aggression. To them it's all about keeping the peace, courting Republicans (people like themselves, who they probably socialize with), not upsetting the status quo with anything so silly and wrong as criminal investigations. How would prosecuting Bush help keep them rich and happy?
But their assertions about Harry Reid and too many other Congressional Dems are correct: like these elitists, Reid doesn't want to prosecute, and for all the same reasons. It would get in the way of business as usual (and also indict their own failures to oppose Bush when they were legally, constitutionally, and morally obliged).
Our "representatives" do not represent us. Not with Bush. Not with Obama. If America is going to be restored to something like the rule of law, it's going to be up to us.
to another country to apply justice? I don't see how we can restore the rule of law when no one in power will allow it.
Is there a way?
Just asking.
and those that followed their orders may have their Pinochet moments.
Here & Here
There is no statute of limitations on capital offenses, such as murder.
As long as they live, they may be prosecuted.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
For all.
Bullshit.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Ya know, hats off to Woodward for what he did in the past but now he needs to stfu.
I think writing those books about the chimp have put him squarely behind enemy lines.
if crimes are committed as they appear to have been
in the whitehouse by the top elected officials and
their appointees, and these crimes are not tried in
any court and completely ignored by the new administration,
then, how can a govt call any act or alleged crime
committed in America by anyone A CRIME?
they can not. crimes committed by any social/economic
level person are crimes or they are not?
because you are poor does not make a crime punishable
and those elites crimes are forgiven or dismissed.
shame on all who think this way.
Because I might of hurled.
These are the most insidious of Bush crime defenders because they do it so quietly and "nicely". Horrible people really.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
A microcosm of what we're hearing about occurs every day in every small courtroom across America. The various attorneys, although opponents in the court, will go out later for drinks together, attend the same social clubs, and cheat with each others' wives. The judges nod and understand that it's a game with unwritten rules. But they're rules for the lawyers and judges of which the regular people are pretty much unaware. Folks actually think that their defense attorney has the client's best interest at heart; that the prosecutor actually is concerned that the law be upheld. They don't know the backroom story... and almost all politicians were lawyers first, learning their craft and their place in the world.
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
So did the Nazis, Chris. They said so at Nürnberg.
me-oww!
That if the Obama Administration and the Congress do NOT address the past crimes of the Bush Administration AND their accomplices in Congress, that some other country in the world WILL.
It is best that Obama man em' up and take care of business and not allow the United States to go further down in international status than we already have. If that's possible.
The time to take care of business is NOW and President Obama is the man to do it. With the help of his Attorney General.
The law is the fucking law. They had better deal with it.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
if these arseholes aren't going down, we need to flood offices with phone calls, emails and snail mail, non stop. At home and in DC.
Or everyone in a US prisonor who has committed nothing more than a property crime needs to be set free. It's only fair.
me-oww!
yup.
The first thought that past across Chris's mind, after he finished your quote, was the uncomfortable Nürnberg thingy.
He looked uncomfortable, with his comment, I can only assume that he didn't want to offend his panel of high class, moral ingrates.
Check out http://www.livestation.com and watch live streaming TV from other sources.
American and Canadian news have become raw indoctrination centers, intent on manufacturing docile consent.
the next segment of this program, can be adequately completed by supplying any random fact...about any random subject.
woodguy
As I recall, the International Military Tribunal hung a bunch of war criminals for just following orders, along about sixty years ago.
How many more times is the United States going to excuse itself for committing the same kinds of crimes we charged, convicted, and executed, others for committing.
I wish the Attorney General nominee would tell the Congress critters to their face that every one of them who was privy to these war crimes would be considered culpable.
He needs to get something going for investigations and prosecutions. It has nothing to do with looking back, it has to do with following the law, the law he swore to uphold. As others have stated not doing anything will put us in very bad standing with the rest of the world (yes worse than it is now) and allow future administrations to get away with the same s***. IMO if he doesn't pursue it or at least appoint someone to I will consider him a failure. Of course the right will make it seem like a witch hunt, because it's not only former administration people and crimes on trial but their very ideology. Man up Mr. President and do the right thing.
can't seem to read the writing on the walls. Holder will prosecute crimes. He was very clear about that. It won't be about partisanship. It will be about legal and illegal as proscribed by law. All the Village Clusterf**k jerks that have been running defense for Bush, in Congress and the media, won't be able to perfume over the stench of what they've done as it becomes clear to the country and the world.
If they let the issue of torture go down the tube you can be sure that every other issue will not be prosecuted, Illegal war, illegal wiretapping, missing emails, etc, etc, and the up and coming bailout scandals. Look forward my ass. The big con coming up.
This thing is not over. Just because Tweety and his crew say that it appears it is going nowhere does not mean it is going nowhere. We are here. We will not back down. You have to expect these people to try to sweep this under the rug but that does not mean we don't roll that rug back and show the dirt. There are too many of us who do not what Bush and Cheney to get away with this.
Turn this thing around. What would the Republicans do if a Democrat did something like this? What would Republicans do if a Democratic President lied about having sex in the Oval Office. Would they just blow it off or would they go after him come hell or high water?
Also it may be that Obama is laying low until Holder is confirmed. Holder is the one who said that waterboarding is torture. No ambiguity at all. "Waterboarding is torture!" No, this thing is not over. And if you don't think Bush and Cheney are worried then why did they try to justify it over and over during the legacy tour? they know this is a very real problem.
I`d say the dog and pony show has just begun. The pundits are out there now telling the American People " don`t expect prosecutions because....." and we are suppose to accept that. Why don`t they just tell us all to fuck off and get it over with? Because the shit will hit the fan. Will just one Journalist or person ask Obama are you going to prosecute or not? He knows the answer.
Just wait until Holder is confirmed. Also I heard something about this (prosecution) having to happen before some time in March because of the statue of limitations of some such crap.
about a week ago it was, "wait till he is sworn into office" now its wait till Holder is confirmed", next it will be..... Check out emptywheel at firedoglake and get a taste of bullshit thats already started in the courts. Thats if you can understand legal- speak.
Excuse me, but hasn't SOMEONE forgotten WHO WON????
There is no outrage in the media, there is no outrage in the government, only complicity. The torture issue is almost secondary to the illegal falsification of a non existent threat to wage unprovoked war, but that does not excuse criminal activity, and TORTURE is still illegal under international law. What happened at Abu Ghraib was not intelligence gathering
Radix Omnium Malorum Avaritia
By demonstrating that we are not a nation of law ourselves?
That we are barbarians who understand nothing of history's lessons of incremental brutality and the slide into chaos?
That we are a nation that makes exceptions for ourselves?
That we find excuses for human rights violations and murder when it is politically expedient for the ruling party? What makes the Democrats different from the Republicans? Certainly not the authority of morality.
But it's not too late to throw his ass in jail.
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
-George Carlin
In other words, THE MAJORITY of Americans.
I can't understand how the same people who portray MOST of the American people as 'the radical left' can still conclude that it's a center-right country. It defies all logic.
"In theory theory and practice are alike. In practice they are very different."
The corporate media's job is not to report the truth to the lowly masses, it is to shape public opinion for the benefit of the corporate/upper class.
I hate the left/right labels. The groupings of progressives and regressives are much better ways of understanding politics.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
It's about the top and the bottom. A functioning democracy should serve the most people, not the people who have the most money and power.
"In theory theory and practice are alike. In practice they are very different."
The rigties seem to think America exists to serve the interests of the right.
So what matters in this country, if not the rule of law? Disgusting.
are all media people. Not a legal scholar in the bunch. So they don't know anything -- just bloviating -- means nothing.
Obama has been very careful to neither confirm nor deny an upcoming prosecution. Meaning (in my view) that some sort of prosecution is likely, but Obama will stay above the fray. As he should.
It is for the Justice Department to investigate and prosecute the torturers. It is not Obama's place to order it done.
Give it a little time, folks. This is one of my pet issues, and I truly want the BushCo Torturers brought to justice. I'm willing to wait awhile before condemning the system or Obama.
So odds of Bush and his minions being brought up on charges are...nill.
Pres. Obama will do his best to undo the damage Bush has wrought, but don't expect anyone to be put on trial. I have a strong feeling he wants to keep America positive and united, and suspects trying Bush's people will divide everyone. Plus you've got the tinfoil hat wearing '9/11 Truther crowd' that wants to charge Bush and friends with 9/11- those whackjobs only serve in discrediting legitimate reasons to try Bush and company.
Look at it this way- Bush and his minions will be judged...
They will be judged by history.
"They will be judged by history."
is a lame excuse for not doing what we ought to do. What makes a person great is doing what is right even when it is inconvenient. How can Pres Obama restore any credibility it he is not willing to admit that if war crimes where committed, he is duty bound to prosecute. Anything else gives precedent for future generations that a president has unlimited unchecked power that only she determines to use for good. There is no moral high ground to judge others.
We lead by example, and that means we cannot ignore human rights violations because they are are inconvenient.
Oh great, now we can't prosecute the Bush administration because it might make the republicans upset and the crapocrats won't be able to accomplish what they want. I thought we had a god damn majority?!!!!
Dems have been sucking up to the republicans for at least the last eight years and now they're going to do more of it--god damnit!!! Do the dems really think the repubs are going to go along with them just because they appease them? When will they ever fucking learn?
Hearing this kind of talk from supposedly respectable talking heads infuriates me to know end. If I had the where with all I would become a terrorist just to press the fact that we need to follow the constitution and not just let these criminals walk free for the horrible crimes they've committed. Thousands of people have been murdered and mamed for life goddamnit!!!!!
Remember, Clinton couldn't even get away with a legal blowjob without being prosecuted.
Why is everyone looking to Obama, Reid or Pelosi to bring Bush & Co. to trial? Wouldn't the things that bunch of thugs be accused of be prosecuted by the Attorney General? Who's to say that whomever is working at the AG's office pending Holder's confirmation isn't already gathering up evidence and brainstorming about what charges to file?
I can wait for a little bit longer, not having seen handcuffs being slapped onto Bush & Co on 1/20/09. But, I'll admit, I can't wait all that much longer. Every e-mail box we can cram notes into has been filled . . all we can do is wait for now.
the question is whether there would be enough political pressure put on Holder by those in power to stop him from doing it. The trouble is that the Bush administration made sure the Gang of Eight which included the Democratic leadership was complicit in the crimes. How much push back there is from both sides to keep the crimes from ever being prosecuted since it looks like Cheney threw down the gauntlet and said he'd take down the Democrats as well if he went down for this will be the real question we've yet to see answered. I'm not hopeful that anything will come of it due to that. The only thing Cheney learned from the Nixon/Reagan/Bush eras was how to make sure no one did anything to him for his actions.
.
Bob Woodward is off his rocker...
... PERIOD!
~ Bush CAN be impeached even after he is out of office.
~ Following the Rule of Law and enforcing consequential punishments for illegal "ORDERS" does not make us soft in this war of terror.
~ Just because there is a new sheriff in town(president Obama) does, in no way, excuse the lawlessness of the prior Administration. Either accountability and the Rule of Law ARE mutually exclusive or neither existed in the first place.
~ More so, the UN may refer the case to the Hague for war crimes charges. If the USA can't take care of their own, how the hell are they supposed to take care of Al-CIA-Duh?
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
I genuinely don't know if Bush could be impeached after his presidency has ended, but even if he could be impeached now, Congress won't do it. Surely you know that.
I have asked in earlier days who else has standing in America to prosecute the Bush war-crimes. I thought perhaps the ACLU and other Constitutional law agencies might be an answer. I read somewhere that any citizen has legal standing to prosecute them, but not for a minute do I think the US court system would allow that to get off the ground. For the average citizen, the court system is comprised of multiple layers all contaminated with conservative judges who don't want to see any government employee's power lessened (lest theirs be decreased, too), certainly not a president's.
So we're getting down to the wire about who can bring justice to the felons and illegal warmongers in the Bush administration if Obama won't do it. A presidential prosecution would have all the government resources for investigation and the best Constitutional arguments, and they'd get into the court system at the highest level, perhaps even the Supremes. Nobody knows because I don't think it's been tried before.
Anyway, the final and only remaining hope is the ICC, and to remove any barriers to a prosecution by other countries would require Congress to repeal the Hague Invasion Act, an absolutely ridiculous law that Bush got passed to save his administration from prosecution for war-crimes. Given the Democratic support of all of GW's actions, including the illegal attack, invasion, occupation of Iraq, and torture authorized by the Bush administration, I doubt they'd repeal it. My level of hope for justice has hit rock-bottom, I must say.
If Obama refuses to prosecute the Bush adminikstration for war-crimes, the chance that they will be prosecuted elsewhere is pretty low.
The Bush administration and Republicans are bullys - how does one handle a bully?
What a bunch of cut outs ...
This Politico report has this about Obama's upcoming Office of Legal Counsel members:
It appears that Obama's legal counsel will not support the prosecution of the Bush administration for war-crimes. They'll use those legal memos from Bush's OLC as their justification.
Prosecuting Bush's OLC (Yoo, et al.) and AG Gonzales would open another can of worms. It would set a precedent and shine a bright spotlight on the OLC's position papers intended for a president's legal guidance. I suspect Obama's OLC does not want to set such a precedent.
So, the panel is probably spot on. If the Bush war-crimes are to be prosecuted, America has to look elsewhere.
I, personally, would argue that Bush's OLC was not an independent function but rather gave Bush/Cheney what they demanded from the OLC. But of course, that isn't provable as far as we know unless somebody who was there knows differently and can testify to it and give proof in writing.
It looks like a LONG ride ahead for those of us who are unwilling to let Bush et al get away with their war-crimes.
We do know that if they get off scott-free, another president will come along to take those reins again and lead America into further ruin.
Correct, and the destruction of emails and restrictions on admin paperwork are all part of the CONSPIRACY to cover up the war crimes.
And the Dems huffed and puffed in Congress (Leahy, etc.) and never did a damn thing about enforcing their supeonas (sp).
The Rat Bastards protect the powerful so that when their time to be held accountable comes, they know they will get off too.
is full of shit!
If we don't go after the bush cabal we will be in the same shape we were in when ford pardoned nixon!
If we had gone ahead and prosecuted nixon we would not be in the same position we are in now.
God damn these people. We need and the people of the world need some justice!!!!!
Yes, we can. My azz.
It's only fair, if we prosecuted against war crimes during the Nuremburg trials, for Germany to get a turn at the table. Angela Merkel can finally get some satisfaction at seeing the man who sexually harrassed her in front of the whole world will now get what he deserves.
The LEAST they could do is strip government pensions from everyone who participated in promoting torture! Bush still makes 200 grand a year from our tax $$$.
when i read crap like:
"O'Donnell: Well one of the problems is if they do dig back into all of these things you do lose some of the Republicans support..."
i start seeing red.
obama had better start worrying less about kissing the gop's collective butts and start paying more attention to his own progressive base otherwise he can watch our support go up in smoke. if he ignores the crimes of bushco inc. he's no better than they were in my eyes.
get on the stick barack, investigate and prosecute.
You know, this is not about getting back at Bush or Cheney or revenge. It is about the rule of law. The United States is supposed to be a government of laws. It is why Nixon was impeached. It is why many government people have gone to jail. And supposedly nobody is above the law. That is why Bush and Cheney must be prosecuted. They broke the law.
Nixon was not impeached; he resigned and lived the rest of his life off the taxpayers, just as Bush and Cheney will do. Thanks Pelosi, you CLOWN.
were written by the rich, to aid in enslaving the poor. There is no law that applies to the rich. Sure, once in awhile they will pretend to throw one under the bus, but it is rare. No, talk is all you will get, until the Bush fades from the media memory hole. They will move on, and nothing will come. Justice is denied. Accept it.
I love these people--talk about unclear on the concept. Of Democracy.
Yes, we know that Pelosi and Reid did not want to hold the criminals responsible, probably because they were involved in the rubber stamping of the WAR CRIMES.
But there is the International Criminal Court in the Hague, and if the new administration is smart (questionable, I know), there would be no better way to regain legitimacy in the eyes of the world (and throw a scare into the other war criminals around the world) than to re-enact the treaty Bush pulled us out of and send OUR War Criminals to the Court.
And screw working across the aisle. The only way I want my Dem Congressfools to reach across the aisles to the Rethugs is to snap the cuffs on them.
Bush has left the building- good fu**ing riddance to him!
The Democrats had their window to try and impeach Bush- they missed the window. You snooze, you loose.
Should Pres Obama focus his administration on arresting and trying Bush?
HELL NO. I want him to focus on making this a better country, look to the future, clean up Bush's mess, and show by example show how much better a president Obama is than Bush-
If Pres obama focuses his energies on arresting and trying Bush, it will further divide America, and may even in some bizzare way invigorate and unite Republicans by turning Bush into a martyr. Right now Republicans are fragmented- there are the right wing Christian zealots, and the moderates-and both sides hate each other. Let them stay that way.
Plus given that the Democrats in Washington (Hello Nancy Pelosi) seldom if ever stood up to Bush, they are guilty of enabling him- so if Republicans are to be arrested and tried- you need to arrest Democrats as well.
This is why I'm an Independent- both parties have major flaws.
Just as some Republicans- like fatman Rush Limbaugh would like to see America destroyed if the opposition- the Democrats gain power, I have found many Democrats are no different when the situation is reversed.
Bush is gone!! Move on! This is no different than Republicans who couldn't stop obsessing over Clinton.
I just dread that just as Republicans can never stop bitching about Bill Clinton- even a near decade after he left office, Democrats will be the same way about Bush. Bush sucked as a leader- he did very little that was positive- but why sink to his level?
He is out of power, get over it! History will put him in the same league as J Edgar Hoover and Joe McCarthy. Perhaps private civilains could sue his ass-But Obama has more important matters to think about- like the future of america!
we just open the doors to all the prisons. Because apparently committing crimes are just something we should just 'get over'.
Which is why we need to look ahead and make this a better country- and not enage in the endless tit for tat fued between Republicans and Democrats. And sorry, if Bush was going to be held accountable, it should have been inititated by the Democrats when Bush was in office- They had their chance and blew it.
Failure to prosecute those ultimately responsible for crimes against humanity, international treaties and US law would be a sign of weakness for both Obama and the American nation. Sometimes to end a horrible war you have to provide amnesty to war criminals; this is done only because the cost of not doing so would be continued atrocities. That is not the case here. Bush, et. al, have openly admitted that they committed crimes against humanity. If they are not brought to justice then we will be ratifying their crimes and our reputation will be permanently besmirched because of our complicity after the fact.
MM
Yes, and the meaning of that word, ratify, is much stronger than "ignore" or "refuse to address". It means an active support of the Bush administration crimes, which is what the Obama administration can be charged with if they refuse to prosecute. It might be different if everyone else were ignoring or refusing to address the Bush crimes, but they aren't. Obama is being asked about it often, and if he continues to try to talk his way out of it, we have no choice but to understand he's ratified those crimes, not just refused to address them or ignored them.
We all need to put Prosecute Now! signs on our lawns ... put them on the highways by the millions ... not let up until the laws are upheld and Bush on down is charged.
The people can force the issue with a little effort!
I'm just glad Bush is gone.
The worst trait of the Republicans is that all they spewed was hate and division- You seem to be saying that Democrats should now do the same. Democrats are better than that- or SHOULD be better than that.
I'm putting the nightmare of the past 8 years behind me, and am looking forward to a positive future, with Pres Obama striving to make this a better country. But hey- if you want to dwell in the past over the actions of an x-president, that the Democrats enabled from day one, all the power to you.
Are you THAT beaten down?
If someone had held you at gunpoint, had robbed you blind, had murdered people in your family, had illegally spied on you, and had stolen your identity to commit murder and torture of others in your name, you'd be satisfied that they were just gone? You'd get some satisfaction out of thinking you were a "good person" because you didn't go after that person to prosecute them? You call it "hate and division" when people are prosecuted for crimes?
Sorry, but I don't understand such a defeatist attitude. It certainly isn't a moral attitude.
How is mine a defeatist attitude?
Based on your logic all the American soldiers should be on trial too.
Bush is out of power. I say good riddance to the sonofabitch, i hope he is never in the public eye again. Putting Bush and his minions on trial will not happen-and would be so destuctive to any endeavor to unite this country and put America on a positive path. I'd rather see Pres obama work on moving America forward than backawards.
As a Independent, this is where I see Republicans and Democrats as one in the same- many of them are so consumed by hatred of the opposing party, they'd rather destroy the country in order to advance their own party.
This political tit for tat has got to stop, or America is doomed..
The Republicans tried to try and impeach Bill Clinton, so the Democrats wanted to try and impeach Bush-,and I'm sure the Republicans will eventually want to try and impeach Obama- when will this end??
The people decided, and Obama won. Period. He shouldn't, and won't turn this country into a 3 ring cricus trying to put Bush on trial- and if there is a trial, it would have to involve Republicans AND Democrats.
Why do you want to relieve the nightmare of Bush? he's gone, leave it at that. I'm washing my hands of him, and do what I can as a citizen to support Pres. obama.
History will judge Bush for what he was- an inept powerhungry oaf. Why rehash what we already know in the courts?
I have a feeling Repug Trolls are hitting C&L disguised as self righteous progressives who want to paint themselves as all forgiving.
They are very organized, know all the talking points as if they are getting PAID to do this kind work.
Blog Propaganda. Seriously. I mean, the Huff Post took a 250k donation from an Israeli company and now you go against Israel on that blog and.. Well you will note the lack of critical posts suddenly.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
I believe, in my heart, that we will eventually see either war crimes tirals over Iraq... or Justice Department action (charges and indictments) for the NSA Wire-tap scandal. It will come slowly, out of irrepressible evidence, and it will all be pointed toward KKKarl Rove and VEEP Dead-Eye Dick. The Republicans should, NOW, decide which of those two criminals they want to send up as a sacrificial lamb... to keep their precious W out of the hooskow.
Today's bloviating on TV was nothing significant. It merely reflectes the present bi-partisan mood in DC which is very important at the present time to get some serious work done on the economy.
None of these assholes get it!TORTURE IS AGAINST THE LAW and it doesn't matter who said it was ok to torture because WE executed Japanese and German war criminals for TORTURING, after World War 2.I for one, do not care to "move on" until those that gave to orders to torture are all brought to justice and I mean if they aren't prosecuted for torture by the end of Obama's first term, I'm voting for whoever runs against Obama. If these folks aren't punished, then what's to stop whoever serves as the future POTUS from re-authorizing torture1 President Obama, either prosecute torturers or face becoming a one term president!
I would agree. Not going after torture, just means you might not go after anything. There is nothing more important.
Ever.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
"Matthews: They had orders."
Gee wasn't that the Nazi defense at Nuremberg?
Yes.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
Not to far in the future The American People will come to realize that The Corporate and Banking Cabal have fucked us over so royally by stealing trillions of dollars from our pockets. My own suspicion is the Bush Company had plenty to do with this. We will then see how many of the self righteous still want to look forward and let these very treacherous traitors off the hook.
The Bush crime Family has been doing this since AT LEAST 1930. That is when Prescott Bush got Nixon in as a Congressman.
As to what happened before that. I would put it down that it start with that secret bankers meeting in about 1908 which still goes on each year. Bildeberger etc... (Heck I have a picture from 1953 with De Gaulle praising Nixon and Reagan.... wtf?)
No press, no coverage, just the richest people meeting for some tea, interrogating world leaders etc....
Nothing to see here...
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
But it's not too late to throw him in prison. The talking heads don't want to go to the logical end of the argument. You do the crime, you do the time. How much simpler can it get?
rove and miers frogmarched into congress in shackles for defying congressional subpoenas i'll be satisfied. only then. i want them to testify. under oath.
Bring back the Guillotine. Seriously. It's well past time. Torturers should be cut out of our society like a cancer.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
Wow! is that venom you all are sucking from Chris Mathew's tingleing leg? What happened to change? Bush said' he did not have sexual relation with those detainees.
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