Bill Moyers: Bring Back the Draft
By Heather Sunday Nov 01, 2009 1:00pm
Bill Moyers ended his show this week with an editorial comment on what he thinks we should do if President Obama chooses to escalate the war in Afghanistan by sending more troops--bring back the draft.
I would agree with him if the end result wouldn't be what always happens when this country has had a draft. The poor go fight and the rich find a way out of it. If we could make sure every neocon war monger had to go first, I'd say hell yes, but that's not going to happen.
BILL MOYERS: Watching the CBS Evening News on Afghanistan this week I thought for a moment that I might be watching my grandson playing one of those video war games that are so popular these days.
REPORTER: An American military convoy traveling northwest--
BILL MOYERS: Reporting on the attacks that killed eight Americans, CBS turned to animation to depict what no journalists were around to witness. This is about as close to real war as most of us ever get, safely removed from the blood, the mangled bodies, the screams and shouts.
October, as you know, was the bloodiest month for our troops in all eight years of the war. And beyond the human loss, the United States has spent more than 223 billion dollars there. In 2010 we will be spending roughly 65 billion dollars every year. 65 billion dollars a year.
The President is just about ready to send more troops. Maybe 44 thousand, that's the number General McChrystal wants, bringing the total to over 100 thousand. When I read speculation last weekend that the actual number needed might be 600 thousand, I winced.
I can still see President Lyndon Johnson's face when he asked his generals how many years and how many troops it would take to win in Vietnam. One of them answered, "Ten years and one million." He was right on the time and wrong on the number-- two and a half million American soldiers would serve in Vietnam, and we still lost.
Whatever the total for Afghanistan, every additional thousand troops will cost us about a billion dollars a year. At a time when foreclosures are rising, benefits for the unemployed are running out, cities are firing teachers, closing libraries and cutting essential maintenance and services. That sound you hear is the ripping of our social fabric.
Which makes even more perplexing an editorial in THE WASHINGTON POST last week. You'll remember the "Post" was a cheerleader for the invasion of Iraq, often sounding like a megaphone for the Bush-Cheney propaganda machine. Now it's calling for escalating the war in Afghanistan. In a time of historic budget deficits, the paper said, Afghanistan has to take priority over universal health care for Americans. Fixing Afghanistan, it seems, is "a 'necessity'"; fixing America's social contract is not.
But listen to what an Afghan villager recently told a correspondent for the "Economist:" "We need security. But the Americans are just making trouble for us. They cannot bring peace, not if they stay for 50 years."
Listen, too, to Andrew Bacevich, the long-time professional soldier, graduate of West Point, veteran of Vietnam, and now a respected scholar of military and foreign affairs, who was on this program a year ago. He recently told "The Christian Science Monitor," "The notion that fixing Afghanistan will somehow drive a stake through the heart of jihadism is wrong. …If we give General McChrystal everything he wants, the jihadist threat will still exist."
This from a warrior who lost his own soldier son in Iraq, and who doesn't need animated graphics to know what the rest of us never see.
So here's a suggestion. In a week or so, when the president announces he is escalating the war, let's not hide the reality behind eloquence or animation. No more soaring rhetoric, please. No more video games. If our governing class wants more war, let's not allow them to fight it with young men and women who sign up because they don't have jobs here at home, or can't afford college or health care for their families.
Let's share the sacrifice. Spread the suffering. Let's bring back the draft.
Yes, bring back the draft -- for as long as it takes our politicians and pundits to "fix" Afghanistan to their satisfaction.
Bring back the draft, and then watch them dive for cover on Capitol Hill, in the watering holes and think tanks of the Beltway, and in the quiet little offices where editorial writers spin clever phrases justifying other people's sacrifice. Let's insist our governing class show the courage to make this long and dirty war our war, or the guts to end it.
Login or Register to post comments.
Bill Moyers bitch!
End the wars, dismantle the Corporate Perpetual War Machine and the CIA.
the draft should only be use on declared wars. if congress has the balls to put forth a war resolution, then i would be fine with a draft, but in vietnam, guys were being drafted for a un delcared war.... and all the college guys got deferments, [dick cheney, rummy, and other bush neocons].
congress doesnt have the votes to do it though. the bush wars are illegal also.
for 5% of the defense budget we would pay for health care medicare pt. E, e for everyone.
Until WWII they were only on declared wars (with the exception of the Civil War, which Lincoln declared as an insurrection, thus denying the Confederacy the dignity of even a negative recognition of their "sovereignty.")
The peace-time draft was an anachronistic anomaly of the Cold War.
Don't you consider the about 20 "Banana Wars" in Latin America (outright invasions of other states) in the early 20th century as undeclared wars?
There was no draft in those cases though, the subject of the thread.
YS, I really love it when you get serious about a subject. Because this shit is serious.
Oh you little minx you...tempting me to link the Dumb and Dumber laxative scene...
See? You resisted the temptation. Good job YS.
Rummy should not be included in that group. Not eligible for the draft as he served honorably on active duty as a Naval Aviator (Wings of Gold). Not a fan of Rummy, but he's certainly not a Cheney or a Limbaugh.
For a minute there I thought it said Bill Murray:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfxcq77FkdE
I said the same thing all the way thru the Iraq thing...
but Mr. Moyers is expecting WAAAY too much common sense out of that corrupt bunch of white collar criminals on Capitol Hill.
more of the same from the weasels.
If every american upon reaching majority was required to do two years of service wars of imperialism would end overnight. The rich only want to kill off other peoples kids. The poor don't realize that they are dying for someone else's profits.
If for some reason a person is physically incapable of completing military service, they could do their required public service in the Peace Corp.
Cute, but what have you done lately? For example?
on the back of the head, I mean ass like what Rush had.
davett asks "Cute, but what have you done lately? For example?".
I have been recovering from a brutal bashing. Sorry but medically I may never be able to serve. Not that they would take me yet anyway.
I do try to blog local news items though.
I volunteer at one of the local homeless shelter/soup kitchens at least one meal a week and I do legal document preparation for a legal aid consumer protection office.
Of course in my younger days I did more, especially when my kids were small and I wanted them to learn to be givers not takers. I admit I have had to curtail my volunteer activities since money is so tight, so what do you do?
Did you sign up just to be an ass?
and although his feet were too flat to let him into actual military service, instead he got to do community service. All Mexicans have to do some sort of service.
In his case, it was going to remote areas and showing art films in little villages for the Ministry of Culture. Cool.
The rich would just schedule their breeding and lobbying so that wars would start after their crotch drops were out of service.
I served four years in the US Air Force, Top Secret Clearance, two years inactive reserve, and another eight years reporting to them every move I made with my new address, due to my clearance, and mine having to be sworn to secrecy for ten years, upon my honorable discharge, or face imprisonment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFGit_tZDqs
Don't forget the football players, fundies and nascar drivers. Than we'll see how fast these bloody wars end!
Exactly....AND Kristol, Liz Cheney, all those hooRAH war-reveling critters, even George W..you know, the dude who said he actually was jealous of our fighting men and women, 'cause it all seemed so..uh..'romantic', and all...
ALL those jackasses who have championed the ILLEGAL invasion of Iraq and still want to fight Iran...
ALL of them. Start with the neocons first...and in case "Dick" Cheney would prove to be not draft-able...his cutie widdle girl would, I'm sure, be 'honored' to show what she's made of (snicker) Hey anyone know the whereabouts of that 'great' Larry Northern..you know, the dude who knocked over that memorial Sheehan and them put up at Camp Casey...he's real good at working IN THE DARK OF NIGHT...........
"Culture warrior chickenhawk", now there's a new phrase!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjQuJDjZar8&NR=1
Even if the Warmongers on Capitol Hill and their offspring don't serve, it may wake up the rest of America who is too apathetic to pay attention. Bring back the draft and watch America turn from a complacent warmongering nation into a conscientious objector in no time. Watch all those "Support Our Troops" stickers turn into "No More War" stickers. Watch Neocons and Warmongers get pushed off the airwaves and replaced with actual thought and debate.
The draft had everyone's attention all right.
People from all walks of life protested the war in Vietnam.
The people in power - Johnson and Nixon - paid no attention.
The "support our troops" stickers stayed out in full force - for a decade.
People who dared say, "no more war" were vilified and sometimes killed.
58,000 young people killed - for nothing.
The draft is just a form of slavery.
Taking a teenager from his or her parents and making them kill and be killed.
have them. Perhaps they can do something positive for Mexico while they're there.
Draft should include ALL men and women of appropriate ages: 21-55, say, and ALL economic backgrounds. Oh yes, that pesky Don't Ask Don't Tell thing, either lose it, or that's what I'll use to get out of your precious draft. I have no qualms about demostrating my sexuality on some hot recruiting officer.
Then when there's no real way to get out of serving, we'll see how many illegitimate wars this country gets involved in.
Besides....I've already been in the Airmy, Navy, Air Force and Marines...in more ways than one. ;)
"I have no qualms about demostrating my sexuality on some hot recruiting officer."
"Twist my arm!" :)
Bring back the draft!? WTF. To legitimize this illegal crap....lets spread it around..... 9 yrs engaged in I & A. WOW! I feel safe! Can I pick the draftees? Please? Probable not,....... but maybe the Draft board will do it right....NOT.!
The poor fight the wars whether there's a draft or not. Most of the people enlisting do it because of the training, college funding and/or medical benefits.
A draft would be a good idea, because it really brings the war home to a majority of Americans and they would then demand that it be stopped.
Of course, a draft without loopholes of any sort would be the preferred way to go.
During the Vietnam war, the majority of Americans knew what was happening to Vietnam and to their children. They knew their children were being used as cannon fodder and pawns in a global chess game born of a desire for conquest.
But they could do nothing about it.
What you have not taken in is that the government doesn't care whether or not you know what is going on. They will do what they want to do. You have no say in the matter. Both political parties will support whatever war we are engaged in. Just like today.
Bringing back the draft equals "shared sacrifice"?
In a pig's eye.
It's still the rich bloated politicians and little wizards from Harvard with agendas that pull the strings and send teenagers to their deaths.
Moyers has done and said a few good things - but he was a shill for LBJ and helped sell the Vietnam war to a gullible populace. I don't know if he has ever apologized for it.
When he mentioned the draft in a favorable light, it reminds me of his unsavory beginnings in public life when the draft was in full swing and young people had their lives cut short by the same kind of "leaders" who are currently in charge.
I don't think Moyers was presenting the draft in a "favorable light". I think he was trying to make a point that it would bring it home to the warmongering tea party fucks that their kids could be sent up to die for no reason.
Maybe so. But I think we have more to worry about from the Yalies.
twice shy?" Use it here.
In a day and age when stumping around the country in a luxury RV trying to get dear old Dadsy elected president is considered doing your duty for your country...
When the vast majority of the kids of prominent Americans and most especially, prominent American chicken hawks, don't serve and thousands of poor Americans are enlisting in the military just to have a job... don't we already have that anyway?
Of course little old P Bush tried to pull the same crap W did and enlisted in the reserves... as a flipping intelligence officer no less... but there has to be at least one exception to every rule or it ain't a rule.
them fine, fit Romney boys too!
Great idea.
Start with that moronic Teabag rapper whose video was posted on C&L yesterday.
http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/republ...
with sending Obama and Michelle.
Obama seems to be in good shape. Lot's of tennis, basketball and golf.
And let's send Biden. He can fly a plane.
And Hillary can go and break champagne bottles to launch pilotless drones to drop bombs on the Pakistanis.
And get Rahm a helmet and send him into the caves of Afghanistan.
And Obama's mentor, Lieberman. He could drive 'em out of the caves by just having the sound of his voice amplified.
If these folks could be drafted, I might go for it.
People in or just out of their teens are ripped from their homes, work or schools.
They are sent off to be killed.
It is not a matter of rich or poor as you state.
It is the heartless powerful elite in government who use young people as pawns in their quest for power and wealth.
The way to stop Obama from sacrificing us to his designs on Afghanistan is to confront him.
Allowing him to send young kids without giving them a choice is the matter is heartless and gutless.
aren't you, TeaEyeIs. I do believe Moyers was being ironic. No draft will happen, as Blackwater, Wackenhut, et al. won't allow it. Remember, they make their living by killing mostly foreigners.
..is no way to stop it.
There's not gonna ever be a draft. The Obama administration isn't that stupid. If they enact the draft the war will be over in 6 months, not because of any troops being sent there, but because of the riots and desertions that would mostly happen. They're not gonna risk any reason to end this war
we have enough problems right here at home
I love Bill Moyers, but the thing about us liberals, us full-fledged human beings, is we can feel empathy for our fellow human beings even if they are not our kin. We've been screaming for eight years to get these people out of the misery and danger of Iraq and Afghanistan, and I don't personally know a soul in the military.
Either bring back the draft or bring home the troops. Make sure Liz Cheney gets drafted and is not allowed five deferments like Daddy Dick.
Let's end this god-damned senseless war. Bring the troops home, period.
We hear this every so often from otherwise sensible people. No, the answer is to bring the troops home now. NOW. And then to change our policies. And our own hearts and minds.
The answer is also to stop letting the pentagon rule the country. Even presidents allow the pentagon to run their agenda of "exceptionalism" and "manifest destiny" with complete abandon. That is what needs to change, on a fundamental level.
before they change their war mongering views. We have a well entrenched media that will keep lying to Americans and tell them we need to waste more lives and money there for a neverending war. The only way to stop the war is a draft. A majority of Americans favor more troops in Afghanistan. How many will favor it when junior gets sent over?
Amen and a hallejuah!
You already know that answer. People have no problem casually sending others to war but would probably think twice if it's their kids, when politicians send their kids to war then maybe i'll think twice about my stance on it
It's very easy for him to call for a draft. It wouldn't be his butt on the front lines.
I was 20 years old when the Twin Towers came down. The next few days I was pretty much consumed with worry. I couldn't concentrate on my studies because I was thinking all the time about friends who'd gone into the military after high school. 2 years later, the brother/cousin of a couple friends of mine was one of the early fatalities in Iraq.
Today, now that I'm 28 years old, I can't watch or read the news without hearing about some kid that could have been my little brother or sister that won't be coming home.
It's mine and younger generations that are specifically bearing the brunt of this. And more specifically, it's kids that don't have much. My friends' loved one's parents pick grapes for a living. You won't see Mr. Moyers grandchildren on the front lines most likely. But you will see all these kids I see everyday whose parents also pick grapes, or clean someone's house, etc.
So hell to the no on this one.
The military wouldn't accept me, I'm bisexual, flat-footed, and I already have PTSD, thank you very much... But for these kids I see running around my town, I want this to end already.
Anna, as I posted above, I think Moyers' point is to bring home the seriousness of escalating another war. I think he is trying to point out the kind of loss, involving a majority of American family's, is devastating and very serious. I really don't think his intent was to actually call for a draft but to just wake everyone THE FUCK UP.
brought up. But if he brought it up as a "sh*t or get off the pot" challenge to the Obama Administration and nothing more, then ok. I just loathe to hear it brought up at all, you know?
Yeah, I know.
"...the guts to end it."
I have a little experience with "ending it" but those guts march double time and alone. If congress wants to defund the war, there won't be any atta-boy's, high fives or campaign boasting but it can be done.
to raise something more than merely vocal opposition to the wars in progress. A draft would make it very personal instead of a distant SEP. I wonder if what kind of coverage Fox would give to the resulting massive protests?
become blurred during a draft when the public figures out that we're fighting an enemy that must repeat history with our modern military that is repeating history in order to assure the future.
I can't help wonder why if the Soviet Union had been so poised to go to war with the US during the Cold War, why wouldn't they had calculated that 40 thousand more of their soldiers could've turned the tide for them in Afghanistan in the 1980s?
The answer is to learn from history instead.
Any takers?
It's their war machine, not ours.
OT but - Who do you suppose was behind the Afghanistan rigged election? If you're going to be drafted, you're going to want to know who you're being drafted by... you know, you want to be in control of what the military is doing - something that is far from the reality now. Congress can't even pry their way into the war machine loop at this point! Congress has lost control so why should we all now be drafted to go die for their war machine. We've got to end this bullsiht i'm afraid. It's about fourty years over due.
being invited over for a party at a co-workers house then subsequently being asked if I have any military experience because they have hours of stories.
One of our best kept little social secrets is military association peer group pressure. It's one of the rights of passage in our warrior society so I've had to re-evaluate who I associate with.
No, I don't talk much.
Any American that holds the constitution dear must at some point realize that the draft, or conscription, is slavery, and antithetical to the basic tenets of the American Ideal.
http://www.counterpunch.org/pauldraft.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory84....
BTW, despite being anarcho-capitalist, I have great respect for Bill Moyers and his work.
Ya, with the draft people will sure take more interest in "their" wars, declared or otherwise.
While I agree with the social/political point it will make, I'm not sure I want to see people not having a choice to be cannon fodder for the military industrial complex
I'm not patriotic enough to believe in the draft because it isn't going to benefit the average American. Not much the 2 parties do benefit ordinary Americans. I refuse to support anymore life destroying policies conjured up by a bunch of bought-off, old political sleazebags that have been around about a century too long. So ef u Moyers.
My only son is 19. He is in music school. He needs his limbs, his hands and fingers.
He would be prime target for a draft. No fucking way. I don't want this war and I don't want my son in it. This terrifies me. It terrifies me to no end.
I will pick up and move to Canada.
I don't have health insurance anyway.
Nobody is getting my son. I agree with Heather: every war monger who is thirsting for more war and hungering for a draft....put your own kids out there first.
children, too?
Because we have a don't ask, don't tell policy in force. If the military were to maintain the DADT policy, then all new inductees could simply pretend to be gay and they would immediately fail to qualify for the draft. The draft would fail.
If the military changes the DADT policy just prior to a draft, the hypocrisy would be obvious and easily called out.
So what's it gonna be?
but being called hypocrites has never bothered these people.
A draft with no deferments and no medical excuses -- those with rashes and cysts on their butts can carry ammo in forward Infantry companies (issue them a little pillow to sit on when not humping ammo into firefights). Those with heart problems can serve in Explosive Ordnance
Demolition (EOD) to calm that excessive heartbeat. Those with flat feet can serve in the Armored Cavalry get to ride to battle). Oh, how quickly the "war" would be over.
Have you read the new draft? They closed ALL of those loopholes. You have a medical problem, or a religious objection, guess what you'll be doing? Cleaning toilets in Ft. Dix. yeah, you still get mandatory service.
There are very few deferments anymore. No such thing as a 4F anymore. You'll still serve. Just in a different way. Like in a defense plant. Or an office.
Yeah and assfucks like "bum knee" Limbaugh can 5 deferment "Dick suck" Cheney can get their fair share on military time just like the common folk!
"I would agree with him if the end result wouldn't be what always happens when this country has had a draft. The poor go fight and the rich find a way out of it."
Sure, there were plenty of exceptions. White, middle-class kids who knew the ropes for draft evasion. Hell, look at Cheney and Rush. But I think history would show that Vietnam had a highly educated class of soldier with the draft. It's the current system that gets the desperate so I'm quite sure you have that backwards.
which is nothing more or less than legalized slavery.
And like all slavery those who will be the slaves will be the masses not the upper classes.
This is a disgusting, anti-democratic totalitarian answer. Just because it has been used before does not justify it, does not make it any more or less a morally bankrupt practice.
Shame on Bill Moyers. Shame of Obama for not exercising his perogatives as Command and Chief of the Armed forces and declaring an end to these two illegal and immoral occupations - they are not wars - the war of aggression was over quickly - now we, like all Empires before us - are busy trying to stamp out the resistance to our wonderful liberating presence.
Lies, lies and more lies. Now we have a black man (well at least 1/2 black) lying to us with the same old shit that we got from an old white war monger and liar. At least Obama isn't telling us that some demented god is whispering in his ear to start wars.
WTF - when are Americans going to wake up and rise up and take this country back from the liars and greedheads. Time to roll out the guillotines - or lease a few from France if they still have them - and cleaning the thugs and liars, starting with the banks, corporations and the slimey politicians.
I agree with the majority of comments made. The draft is completely antithetical to the core tenets of our constitution. One must remember, that our founders fought against this concept.
It must be understood that conscription is indeed a form of slavery. It is a form of slavery, where the victim is owned by the state. Ask any former draftee, and they will tell you that the government makes it clear that you are their property. The state will then use the draftee as it sees fit, then dump what is left of the person when they are done.
I don't often find myself disagreeing with Mr. Moyers, but I believe it is important to point out that he was a part of an administration that used conscription. I'm afraid that whatever allowed him to participate in that administration and its disgusting policy toward the young men of its country is allowing him to make a disgraceful argument now.
The assertion that bringing back the draft will lead to a foreign policy change assumes that the majority of potential draftees and their families support this foreign policy and need to have their minds changed. I would argue that the large majority do not support this foreign policy. Right now, young voters are the most vocal opponents to this foreign policy - bringing back the draft would in fact silence much of their voice.
In the end, I must say that I am disgusted with this argument. Any person who advocates for the enslavement of someone else, should be publicly shamed.
As usual I agree with Moyers 100 % , a draft that people like Dick Head Cheney and the great decider can't weasel their way out of . When all classes must sacrifice and the politicians have to answer to the middle and upper class it's not so easy to start unjustified and senseless wars or to haphazardly invade other countries . The fact that people were drafted back in the Vietnam days had a lot to do with people hitting the streets and ending that insane war . You can bet that if people were being drafted to go to Iraq and Afghanistan now that people would be hitting the streets and getting involved demanding that the madness stop . When your ass is on the line suddenly you and your family care about the injustice . The set up now is not right and not fair at all , it's disgusting .
No way Bill. I'm not going to see my kid return in a box so that you can make a political point. WTF is wrong with you?
is right ,but the way to do a draft is make it mandatory to all males and females on their 18th birthday!NO EXCEPTIONS unless physically and/or mentally unable to serve , to be determined by a 5 doctor panel. Not out of high school when the draftee turns 18? Tough, the draftee can finish high school after basic and advanced individual training(A.I.T.).After serving for 6 months the draftee in on reserve for 5 i/2 years until their 6 year obligation is over then they are discharged from the reserves! If there is any combat, the folks who enlisted are the first to be ordered into combat and if reserves are needed to replace the volunteers ,the reservists fill their spots and if reserves are needed for combat the newest draftees are used!I was a chump for letting myself get drafted in 1966 because I and hundreds of thousands of my contemporaries didn't choose to go to college to beat the draft like ALL the rich kids did!If this type of draft was in affect before the Iraq war started we would not of invaded Iraq and we wouldn't be stuck in Afghanistan! When the folks who send other peoples kids to die in THEIR wars know their kids are going to get killed just like the "common kids", unjustified wars will STOP!
The last time there was a draft that even came close to being fair was during WWll and that draft even got folks out of harms way because of the fact some draft dodgers were either movie stars or others had jobs that were vital to the war effort! What a cock of BULLSHIT! If there is ever another draft that that DOES include deferments I will be on the streets protesting and because my kids are now adults over draft age i would go into debt to make sure my grand kids were not caught in any kind of draft!
All of these war hounds can finally step up and actually show some real support for their cause.
Cheney and all the other Reslug war dodgers would squeal like pigs if any Reslugs actually had to fight this war.
Login or Register to post comments.