Bill Maher Brings on Anti-Muslim Extremist to Comment on Recent Beheading
Well, apparently I was not the only person appalled at seeing Brigitte Gabriel on the season opener of Bill Maher's Real Time. First he's slumming around with Ann Coulter, and now this. What the hell, Bill?
I was wondering if Maher even realized who he was bringing on his show to comment on the beheading of a Muslim woman. Talk to Action's Chris Rodda has more on that in his post Maher Season Premiere Includes Islamophobe Who Said Muslim-Americans Shouldn't Hold Public Office:
But, while Maher was just exploiting the irony of the story, his via satellite guest for the segment, Brigitte Gabriel, was given a forum to further her fear-mongering cause. And, although as more of the facts emerge, the murder of Aasiya Hassan is looking less and less like an "honor killing," and more and more like just a horrible case of domestic violence in which the perpetrator happened to be a Muslim, this story is pure gold to someone like Gabriel, whose mission is to spread a message that no Muslim-American, no matter how "assimilated" they may appear, can be trusted. With her glee in proclaiming on Real Time that Muzzammil Hassan had called the police to "brag" that he had murdered his wife (something that is not true), Gabriel came across to the audience as a funny, personable guest joining Maher in a bit of sarcastic repartee about the story. To those of us familiar with Gabriel, however, her glee was taken as something quite different.
The real Brigitte Gabriel is a woman who has said that Muslim-Americans shouldn't be allowed to hold public office; instructs people to contact the F.B.I. if they see a mosque being built in their neighborhood; and has said that Muslim-Americans "are good at nothing but complaining about every single thing" and that "Every practicing Muslim is a radical Muslim."
I just caught her on C-SPAN once and watched Bill Moyers' coverage of her, and that was enough to have me practically choking when I saw her face appear on Maher's show. I highly recommend anyone who wants to get a full dose of just how extreme this woman is check out Talk to Action's reporting on her, linked above. More video below the fold of Brigitte Gabriel at CPAC.
For anyone who missed her performance at CPAC which was covered by Bill Moyers Journal, here she is in action.
Talk to Action also has her appearance on June 13, 2007 where she was invited to speak as a "Terrorism Expert", at the US Joint Forces Staff Command in Norfolk, Virginia.
h/t to Nicole for the help with the post.
As it was released this week, I bought it. I watched the extras and he does seem to have a rather anti-muslim bias. While I personally find all religions offensive, it was odd how he left out some of the ramblings from the Palestinians are animals and should be exterminated crowd, then of course are the shared ramblings from judaism and christianity where they call for people not to marry non-believers/ murdering non-believers/ etc. He also repeats the Ahmadinejad mistranslation, yes he's a religious fuckwit but can we at least be honest about what he actually said.
I still enjoy the movie, but he gave me a strong suspicion that he might dislike muslims more than the other religions.
but suspected the same thing. I'm a fan of Maher's in general but he can be over the top with some of his rhetoric and he drives me nuts when he lets wingnuts on his show that have their talking points down and he doesn't know enough about a subject to counter them. Why he thought it was a good idea to bring this woman on the show is just beyond me.
... and tasteless jokes about African American men -- relating it, in a backdoor way, to President Obama. It was very offensive, and a lot of people in the audience groaned.
He's funny, witty, clever and spot-on with many topics, but sometimes he's nothing more than a juvenile, puerile twit. A mixed bag with Mr. Maher.
I do agree with him that religion is, well, ridiculous. Bearded sky god sitting on a cloud, anyone?
...his support for PETA.
But I went out of my way to see Religulous (and purchased the movie as a download), so...
I don't always agree with PETA's tactics for getting attention to their causes, but the overall cause is a worthy one IMHO.
Odin, Zeus...
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
http://www.chrismasto.com/delicious/images/171
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Yeah, I got the same feeling when I saw it in the theaters. I mean, let's face it: the West Bank settlers are as nutzoid a group of religious extremists as you'll find anywhere. And they're one of the fundamental irritants exacerbating the problems in the Middle East, and Maher doesn't even look at them. Instead he pokes fun a a goofy institute whose purpose is to contrive Rube Goldberg apparatuses to allow Orthodox Jews to not have to spend the Sabbath in the dark. That's all good fun and all, but completely trivial in comparison to the damage the settlers are inflicting on the cause of world peace.
...exactly.
while the only settlers who get on tv are the extremeists, most who reside in the settlements are not extremeists as you paint them
but nice leap...settlers inflicting damage on the cause of world peace
ya...much worse then a bunch of nutjobs who scream allah akbar and fly planes into buildings
No, I haven't ever been to the West Bank. Am I talking out of my ass? Probably as much as anyone else who doesn't live in Israel, the West Bank, the Golan, or the Gaza Strip.
That said, I take exception with your insinuation that I'm saying extremist Israeli settlers (or the government) are more to blame for the problems in the Middle East than are extremist Muslims. I believe the situation is more complex than that, too much so to make such a simplistic statement. It takes two (or three, or more...) to tango.
My actual point, if you'll read my post below, was only that Maher appeared to be criticizing the Islamic religion strenuously for acts that violent Muslims carry out, but he completely ignored the fact that the Israeli government carries out violent, senseless acts of its own, also in the name of religion, as well as politics.
That was my point. Take it or leave it, but don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.
My step-son rented it this weekend, and I watched it, too. We had an interesting discussion afterward. The crowd was a mix of secular "spiritualists" (that is, they believe in a "higher power," but not the Christian version of whatever that is), a confirmed atheist, a Mormon (with a pretty damn good sense of humor, I might add), and a fairly hard-core conservative (of whose beliefs I have no idea, but I can guess). The conservative got up and left twenty minutes into the film, so that skews the results a little--he didn't participate in the "exit interview." He did eat most of our popcorn, though.
With the exception of the atheist, we came to the following conclusions:
1) Maher went easy on Judaism--or, rather, Zionism. He showed more than a little deference to the nation of Israel by never mentioning the ways in which Zionism impacts Muslims in and around Israel, while ranting against Muslim extremists, in general.
2) He didn't help his argument that, basically, "religion is a bunch of crap that inevitably results in mass slaughter and conflict." We agreed that it often does, but he ignored the religious beliefs and practices of First Nation, Native American, Aboriginal and African peoples. Maybe he was afraid to delve into these issues; maybe he thought they were not impactful enough on the debate--"these aren't the power players," so he just skipped over them; or maybe he just doesn't know anything about them and decided he didn't need to find out. Who knows?
3) Bill Maher is a self-aggrandizing blowhard--our take on how he came off (replayed when presenting the "Best Documentary" award at the Oscars last night--"Oh, and I made a film, too, but it wasn't nominated." Maybe that's because it wasn't really a documentary, Bill.)
We did, as I said, have a good conversation after his film--especially about Bible World, or whatever the hell that Judeo-Strange-o theme park in Florida is called--that was trippy. (It made me feel like my hair was on fire, if you get my meaning.) But in the end, the general consensus was, "Who cares what Bill Maher thinks?"
I wish I had those two hours back.
Hey Gabriel, women are violently murdered by their husbands all over the world...unfortunately. Maher should have had an Arab woman with an opposing view to counter this lady's right wing song and dance. Gabriel came off as a Ron Christie sounding house Arab.
Have you jumped the shark? In my opinion, yes.
You should have to be on Larry King Live every night for three months. That would help to get your brain back on track.
You are acting like someone who is a rethug dressed in a blue bathrobe.
and so is honor killing. Both shouldn't be tolerated.
I would expect to see someone like her with Glenn Beck or BillO, but Maher? These are the times when I'm glad I don't have HBO
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
You've never heard me heap accolades on Bill Maher.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Bill Maher continues to allow the right wingnuts a forum to spew the complete BS they love to spew. Bill, the "progressive movement" doesn't care what your right wing guests have to say. We have heard enough from this crowd. Bipartisanship is a four letter word to these losers. Don't be a shill for these fear mongering, anti-American/world neonitwits. Look for your ratings to tank if you keep up with their nonsense. From Steele to Coulter, it is all the same - lies, ignorance, frothing, feigning outrage etc. etc. etc. enough already. I'd really like to hear more from people who have something relevant to say.
Before he made his politically incorrect statement about 9/11 and lost his show of the same name Maher was pretty much another right wing tool who occasionally made fun of the right as well. He only changed his views when the right abandoned him and he had no choice.
the fact is...he puts religion first.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Frankly it doesn't matter whether it was an honor killing; now he can be honorably executed.
And as for saying Muslims shouldn't hold office, that would be a religious test, forbidden by the Constitution.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I love how this woman thinks the US involvement in the middle east goes back only 30 years. She does not want to acknowledge the role the US and corporations played in reinstating the Shah against public sentiment. Someone needs to buy her stupid ass a history book
...but overthrew a democratically elected leader who didn't want foreigners to own the oil and other natural resources.
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
and installed one of the most brutal dictators (the Shah) in history who applied torture regularly to political dissidents and modeled his state after Nazi Germany. It always amazes me how Americans are so incensed over the hostage taking (which I admit was also wrong) but blind to the far more numerous and horrendous crimes committed in our name before hand.
my parents sponsored an Iranian student many, many years ago. This student's father was closely connected with the Shah of Iran and extremely wealthy. I've known a number of other Iranians over the years but this 'exchange' student was a real f*king prick and very arrogant. He really hurt my parents' feelings because when he graduated he just disappeared and was never heard from again without ever saying goodbye or thanks or anything. I would suspect his attitude towards people around them was programmed into by his parents, particularly his father, and probably reflected the shah's attitude toward 'leading' his country. All other Iranians I've known were really great people.
All the laughing was IMO out of place and that woman is sort of annoying but that doesn't mean that Islam is a happy love fest and a religion of peace. Bottom line is that Islam justifies a terrible culture.
Here's Wafa Sultan doing a much better job...and in the belly of the beast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYB4pG3kHIY
Another (ex)Muslim woman one should watch is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Here she is with a sort of typical liberal naive "live and let leve" type.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08EYqwyns-k
And again, I am a liberal democrat so don't bother calling me a conservative or republican or some shit.
As a fellow American you ought to have enough common sense to renounce calling other cultures violent.
Take a long look into your nearest mirror.
Any person with common sense would agree that there ARE violent cultures in this world. And yes, many of those cultures are Muslim. Duh.
Now, does America also have a violent culture? Yup. But we have a justice system in place and while violence does exist in our culture it is not celebrated. Nobody is excusing Chris Brown for beating up Rihanna or OJ for killing Nicole...but in some countries they would be....that is just A FACT.
America and it's people are far from perfect but do not equate our culture with those that fail to even recognize basic human rights.
.
OJ was definately excused... on that particular charge. That's why the more recent judge hit him hard with the sentencing on a totally unrelated case.
A county sheriff in east Texas has a theory that OJ was covering up for the real killer: his coke-addled son who owed huge money to the drug dealer. Twisted stuff and so strange it had the ring of truth.
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
he wrote a book called "If I did it"!!! Put your tin foil hat back on (this from someone who is currently reading a book about how Sirhan Sirhan may have been a programmed assasin)
Is it that O.J.'s the first guy to get away with murder, or is he the poster child for violence in America? Talk about a tin foil hat...
I was responding to the theory "that OJ was covering up for the real killer: his coke-addled son who owed huge money to the drug dealer" My point is that to keep postulating he didn't do it after he wrote a "hypothetical" book explaining HOW HE DID DO IT is a bit of a stretch.
OJ was still subject to our legal system. Not that it's perfect or anything. In other places the violence against women (and others) is either ignored by the government or sanctioned by the government.
Anyway, I've been saying this for a while now. That the best way to lessen the influence extreme versions of Islam is to empower Muslim women.
women's rights are human rights.
do you really think that our culture is no different than an Islamic extremist culture? I am a liberal democrat...and I certainly do not live with my head in the sand in regards to the faults and flaws of the USA but I think we have a much better track record here regarding basic human rights...and women's rights. I find it very disturbing when I hear people say that we are no different or that we should "look in mirror". Puleeze! Yes, husbands kill their wives here in America...but we Americans collectively as a CULTURE are shocked and disturbed by it...we seek justice and we try to prevent it from happening again....we don't just accept it or turn a blind eye or justify it as some medieval custom. You just can't compare it.
There are certainly important ways in which western culture has more respect for basic rights (e.g. women) than Islam. But there are also ways where the west has inflicted more harm to the planet than Islam. Consider the harm that global corporations have caused. Consider two world wars and the technology to blow up the world several times over. Sure if you want you can critique any culture. But that is not what the person criticized here is doing. She is demonizing Islam as inherently evil and when you try to do that you have no more of a case than when the Islamic world points to all the things we have done and calls us the great Satan.
Left and Left...not on what Brigette Gabriel said.
I agree that we can not demonize an entire religion due to the despicable acts of a few of it's followers...just as you can't deem America as inherently evil due to the acts of a few.
Left and Left seems to have taken offense that someone has pointed out the correlation between these types of atrocities and Islamic extremism but it is just a plain FACT that they go hand in hand.
And to say that America is no better is ridiculous.
I agree
"I agree that we can not demonize an entire religion due to the despicable acts of a few of it's followers"
But you already did.
["Any person with common sense would agree that there ARE violent cultures in this world. And yes, many of those cultures are Muslim. Duh.]
far left loon >.<
I said that MANY violent cultures happen to be Muslim. I did not say that ALL Muslim cultures are violent.
Surely you are not going to dispute the FACT that many Muslim Extremist cultures are violent and oppress women? Remember the key word is EXTREMIST.
"...just as you can't deem America as inherently evil due to the acts of a few. "
I can and will.
What is America. Who controls it? Is it a democracy?
If it is a democracy why have not the people acted to end the barbarism of their own government? Because America is like an island, and you can enjoy a comfy lifestyl;e. You've never been invaded. For decades it's been all too easy to go on about your merry lives and ignore what your government has done to secure the natural resources for your excesses within fortress America. You didn't want to know the truth, as long as the good times rolled.
The only people that can change this is YOU. So far I haven't seen much collective will in that direction. That apathy has permitted evil deeds to be carried out.
far left loon >.<
America is not evil.
America is not perfect.
Yes...we have committed barbaric acts...some of them within our own borders and some of them outside of our borders. But we are a nation with a conscience and we get it right eventually.
And we are no longer ignoring what our government does and for now we DO have a lot of wrongs to right....and I have faith that our new leadership will take us there.
And yes, we have been invaded...the last time was less than 8 years ago and we haven't forgotten.
And YES!! we do our best to live merry lives...and like our president said last month...we will make no apologies for it.
Are you serious?
The fact that the United States is not a perfect country doesn't mean we can't criticize medieval culture.
And I'll let you in on a little secret, Muslims don't behead their wives because of anything the west did.
Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, rendition, mass murder/false imprisonment of innocent civilians, warmonging, etc. Head out of ass, please.
So because we do barbaric stuff it's OK to behead your wife now too?
I don't see why you're trying to justify this guy's murder.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Do not behead your wife.
I was thinking since we live in a violent culture it was OK now. Glad you cleared it up. I'm sure my wife is appreciative too. :)
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
This is a violent Nation that no longer has the moral authority to criticize other Nations for their practices. Do not put words in my mouth.
We can't criticize murder anymore?
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
It would shock you if you asked people outside of this country do they believe that the US is one of the world's most violent Nations.
Wow,
I'd never know that from my travels through Nicaragua or the South Pacific or Northern Africa.
You're not talking to a retard. I've been around the world, I've also spent a lot of time with trouble American vets who've told me stories of the atrocities they've committed in other lands.
I still don't see how any of this makes beheading a woman OK.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Before you clarified I thought beheading one's spouse was justified.
Not really. The State murders people all the time. Killing is killing.
far left loon >.<
I would rather get head from ANYBODY'S wife.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It's not OK to behead your wife, nor is it OK to do "barbaric stuff." When you're doing barbaric stuff yourselves, you're not exactly seen as an authority on goodness.
Barbaric stuff-- too afraid to list it???? Nice way to avoid the guilt of mass murder.
far left loon >.<
What is your point?
Nobody here is suggesting that the US is perfect. I say that, but I don't think you actually understand what it means.
It means that even recognizing Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, false imprisonment, etc I say with complete confidence that US and western culture is miles ahead of and superior to Islam and Sharia.
And yet it seems like that won't get into your brain until being transformed into 'let's kill the brown people who wear towels on their heads.'
Many here seem to be missing the point. As I posted earlier in the great words of Salman Rushdie:
(From the "Satanic Verses")
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
...reciting that bullshit? My point is that you can shove your "But, but, we're better than they are" bullshit. Instead of pointing fingers(something Americans traditionally love to do) we should keep our own asses clean. Only then can we lecture others from any moral high ground.
Who are you, Jesus? Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone?
Get over yourself.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
...pro-America, "we're always better than them" bullshit slingers. This imbecile beheaded his wife, Charles Manson disemboweled Sharon Tate...what's the fucking difference?
Since I have spent time in South East Asia, Central America and the Mediteranean and seen how much of the less fortunate on this planet live I can honestly say that I share your feelings about how our actions (used mainly to enhance our lavish way of life) have a seriously damaging effect on people all over the world. That said, I still don't see why you have a problem with calling a religiously inspired murder bad.
These are all signs of religious bigotry.
These are all signs of a violent and ignorant faith. Why should we continue to be submissive to religions out of "respect for their faith" in tribal voodoo?
Just as we should hold ourselves responsible for the atrocities we've brought upon the millions of displaced Iraqis, the corrupt governments we've forced upon numerous developing nations, the warlords we've let loose in Afghanistan, and the poverty and hopelessness we've inflicted on our own nation.
You don't have to be guiltless to recognize wrongs.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
"I say with complete confidence that US and western culture is miles ahead of and superior to Islam and Sharia."
Therein lies the problem. You can't clearly see yourself. You just know you're superior.
far left loon >.<
Well put.
Even if this was just the typical "domestic decapitating with a sword" that goes on every day in America and has nothing to do with the murderer's faith. You have to admit the "coincidence" of him trying to better the image of Islam with his TV network, and him beheading his wife in a traditional Islamic way makes this look really bad.
I just hope that this event encourages Muslims to speak out against their radicals across our planet. It be even better if it made religious nuts of all stripes rethink extremism.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Shock and awe? That was just like Christmas. Wonderful stuff.
And rape, is that celebrated? If it isn't, then why do so many posters hope the politicians and crooks they wished were in prison also get anally raped? And if it is a basic human right to not get raped while in custody of the state, then why does this still happen?
"Any person with common sense would agree that there ARE violent cultures in this world. And yes, many of those cultures are Muslim. Duh."
Typical. America is great and right-- always. Open you eyes. America is extremely violent.
Please explain rendition and cheerleading torture as a frat boy prank, and pre-emptibe strikes. Most of the world now sees you (your leaders) as war criminals. Isn't that a bit violent itself-- American war criminals.
Shock and awe was sooooo very civilized, as you like to think. Nice and neat. Tune in, watch the show, have a good night's sleep.
Please explain napalming Vietnamese villages.
Please explain capital punishment.
Shall I continue? I'd fill 10 threads.
far left loon >.<
you sure like to choose your quotes selectively!
my very next sentence in that post was :
"Now, does America also have a violent culture? Yup."
I do not tolerate the intolerable.
Mon, 02/23/2009 - 06:01 — debaser71
And again, I am a liberal democrat so don't bother calling me a conservative or republican or some shit.
________________________________________________________________
Okay you're a some s**t.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Islam justifies a terrible culture????? Really?!?
Or could it simply be they have as many nutjobs as American Christianity has? By the way, your "culture", these days, is nothing to write home about. Take a look in the mirror is right.
far left loon >.<
I Maher a turncoat?
Palling around with Coulter? Ye gods!
Maher never use to make a big secret out of the fact he and Coulter 'did it'. After she became more well known and people found out what a toxic lunitic she he kind of cooled the facts of the relationship. Maybe he's doing the anti-Muslem lady or maybe just wants to.
He's got a weakness for crazed semi-attractive women. (i.e. Coulter, Huffington, Amy Holmes, etc...)
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
We should get Malkin on his show and see if Bill gets Malkin to bump uglies with him, then we could confirm the hypothesis. I wouldn't doubt it is true but a nice, pre-planned social experiment would make it more of a fact than hypothesis.
Or rather, they seem to flock to me for some reason...
We are talking about a guy whose movie about the craziness of religion came out on DVD last week. Like Gabriel said, "You can't make this stuff up." How could he not put the story on the show with an attitude of sarcasm and disdain?
Does she have a point or doesn't she, "When an American kills his wife in passion, he tries to hide the body. When a Muslim kills his wife, he calls the police station to report that honor has been served." Ok, it's a fanatical faction. But where is the Christian faction that's into wife honor killings? Really, where? Isn't it possible that she is passionate because she grew up in the Middle East and she respects western feminism and human rights? I like to be as liberal as the next guy, but, you know, there really _are_ cultural differences in the world and some of them are pretty repulsive and don't lend well to, "I'm OK, You're OK."
"It is becoming quite clear that religion is at the heart of so many civil wars and international struggles. People seem willing to kill, maim, torture and die for a religious or spiritual belief which moves them to believe that their source of the divine is the only source...Consider: In the name of God, a fatwa against Salman Rushdie. In the name of God, murder in the Balkans. In the name of God, the bombing of the World Trade Center. In the name of God, the siege at Waco, Texas. In the name of God, Hindus and Muslims kill each other in India. In the name of God, bloody warfare between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland. In the name of God, Shi'ites and Sunnis are at each other's throats in Iraq and Iran, as are Arabs and Jews in the Middle East. In the name of God, a doctor is murdered because he believed in a woman's right to choose. In the name of God, what is going on?"
[Shirley MacLaine, quoted in "2000 Years of Disbelief, Famous People with the Courage to Doubt", by James A. Haught, Prometheus Books, 1996]
Study the symptoms not the virus...
...Gabriel's priority was on painting Muslims with a broad 'they're all insane!' brush. She did it in that high pitched fast talking shouting voice that you usually see on Cable News - where 'experts' appear in their section of the screen to try and rant over each other. She even used the phrase 'you can't make this stuff up' ala Rush Limbaugh (isn't Limbaugh entitled to copyright that phrase?) and Bill didn't call her on it - I don't know what the hell he's doing being all chummy with these wingloons looking to get on TV and rattle off their media-bigot-boilerplate-BS but he may want to think again before he gives too much of his show over to them.
The irony of the specific story being discussed was explained so many times during that segment that I think Bill was realizing this 'interview' was a little ridiculous - then this woman began blasting away with her blanket condemnation of all Muslims for this one man's behavior. While it is true that the idea of 'honor killing' or that a man is entitled to abuse or even kill his wife must be pervasive enough in middle eastern culture that the Muslim world somehow accepts that idea as 'mainstream' otherwise you wouldn't see people 'proud' of their violent acts. How is anyone helped by taking that repulsive cultural difference and then ranting about how all Muslims are monsters?
The only people whose agenda gets advanced by blanket knee jerk xenopobia are bigots and xenophobes - the kind of people who approve of the US policy towards the middle east over the last 50-75 years and think we should be killing more Arabs because .....well....fuck 'em, they're animals!
... has always been bullshit. Cruelty and mayhem are always wrong, no matter whether it's in Chicago or the Congo. Genital mutilation, "honor killings," dowries -- all bullshit. All wrong, all the time.
Same with Santeria. It's not a religion; it's the murder of innocent animals.
C'mon, global humanity. It's 2009 -- time to take a giant leap into enlightenment. Jettisoning religion would be a great start.
I really like(d) Bill Maher, but his laughter in reporting this story is, to me, just as disturbing as him having this bigot on. I find nothing funny about a man beheading his wife. Nothing at all.
I have 4 staunch republican brothers and several of them have a persistent need to find humor in what are actually disturbing scenarios....all the scenarios they come up with are contrived in order to say something 'funny' about it.
was a bit ghoulish. but maybe that's just me when two people are smiling and laughing about a decapitation.
anyone care to pin point the moment we lost our humanity?
..say 9/11 but......
Honor killings, female circumcision, beheading infidels...that's all a part of Muslim culture. Invading nations that don't pose an imminent threat, torture, extreme rendition, racial profiling...that's all part of our culture.
All of it, crimes against humanity. I hate it all! The guy who beheaded his wife is a criminal; arrest, prosecute, convict and imprison! The guy who said "Go ahead & torture" is a criminal; arrest, prosecute, convict and imprison!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
there is plenty of violence in all cultures and that its counter productive to just point the finger at any specific culture and single them out as inherently evil
Yes. And that is the problem with the focus of this segment.
If this lady came out 20 years ago railing against the practices of the sharia, I would be much more sympathetic. But when the outrage is against a people, rather than a practice, it becomes disingenuous and dangerous. Today the political overtones are too easily misused by those wanting revenge or revenue.
Honor killings, female circumcision- are not part of Islam and never were. They are very old tribal traditions that pre-date Islam. In the Tribal areas of Pakistan/Afghanistan/Africa- people have unfortunately been engaging in this type of activity for years. I've lived in those areas- and there are non-muslims that do the same thing, again it has nothing to do with Islam. Of course people who engage in that activity cite God and religion to justify their beliefs.
There is nothing in the Quran that says "Behead your wife"- or to circumsize females, or to kill your family members to protect your honor. Any Muslim who engages in such an act is a hypocrite.
Its not just religion that can be used to cause violence- ANYTHING CAN. George Bush used the guise of spreading "democracy" to justify his violence. The USSR caused more deaths than any "crazy muslims" have- and religion wasn't the cause of that.
pivotal dates that I can think of are Jan 21, 2001 after SCOTUS over-ruled the will of the people and then every day since Sept. 12, 2001
The Big Corporations have pretty much devoured everything in their path since the 80's. Bill, Keith, Rachael, they are not working for Pacifica.
Them's fightin' words. Seriously though just because MSNBC pays her salary doesn't mean she has sold out. Can you provide one example where her opinions or style of reporting have changed from when she was an independent radio personality in North Hampton? I doubt it. Rachel covers a lot of people that never got onto the MSM before. BTW, I find Pacifica really dissapointing these days. Not that they have sold out but are becoming irrelevant as they don't create interesting new programs.
I watched a two hour show yesterday on PBS about the life of Jack Johnson. Ever heard of him? I hadn't. He was the first black heavyweight champion boxer in the US. He won that title in 1908. No one lost their head or anything, but the things that were done to him and other black people during his life were pretty fu*king disgraceful. I don't think the US is in any position to tell any group of people or religion what to do until we get our own shit together.
For me to watch anything on tv for two hours straight is just about unheard of, but this program was amazingly interesting and enlightening. I never knew about the racial riots of 1910 when Johnson went on to beat the previous retired white champion. The country was at one of its ugliest moments.
There are people right here in this country who will stand back and allow a child to die all in the name of god will take care of matters.
Anyone murdering anyone is a felony regardless of how they handle things before or after the murder has been done.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Brilliant(and extremely difficult to watch) documentary by Burns on the rise and fall of Jack Johnson, the first black heavyweight boxing champion at the peak of racist America. I never watch part two anymore.
I found the program by accident, just flipping through the dial. I am not a boxing fan at all, but once I began watching it, I was mesmerized. I learned so much from that documentary that I had never known. It was so incredibly sad. It was difficult to watch but everyone should watch it and learn.
The part about him getting stopped for speeding and getting fined fifty dollars was funny. When the cop said he didn't have change for a hundred dollar bill, Johnson told him to keep the other fifty because he would be coming back the same way.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
American Experience is one of my favorite programs and your comments are spot on. At a time where African Americans were expected to stay in their "place" and defer to whites, Johnson deferred to no one. Had he not been hobbled by the poison of racism he would have been even more successful. How sad it is that blatant hate limited his true potential.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc89333/jaime/leg...
"Now he wouldn't let Jack Johnson on board they said this ship don't haul no coal Fare thee well Titanic, fare thee well."
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Is that supposed to be a true story?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
on Dr. Demento. Will try to find out more info.
Do you have a link on the show you saw? Sounds interesting.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Here ya go
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Johnson_(boxer)
Apparently the original song was by Leadbelly, though apparently nothing confirms that Johnson was denied passage aboard the Titanic.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
guess you arent a big boxing fan
Maher is correct to present people with different, opposing, or generally crazy viewpoints.
If you want to live in your own little world without any knowledge of what other people think, then maybe you should live in a monastery.
But, for the rest of us, I believe that we must be aware of what kind of thinking, or lack thereof, is roaming about in America.
I think that those who are pissed off here miss the whole point of provocateurs like Maher, Christopher Hitchens and the likes. They aren't trying to please us progressive liberals, they are stating their views. Just because we agree with many of their points doesn't mean we will agree on everything. Like Christopher Hitchens, Maher lives to be provocative. That's his schtick and it has done him well.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
In the great words of Salman Rushdie:
(From the "Satanic Verses")
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
I can't stand his books. I've bought three and don't get past 100 pages.
far left loon >.<
pretty much unreadable IMHO...
but really, the past 8 years seems like we've had this crazy shit rammed down our throats incessantly mixed with a ton of lies. I don't remember people shoving so much crazy crap in my face during the 90's or even in the 80's except I do remember the 'be afraid of russia' stuff but not like this stuff today.
I used to think he was a funny commentator, smarter than the average joe, who had a genuine progressive streak in him. He didn't react with mindless fear and group think after 9/11 and lost his job for speaking some uncomfortable truths. I stood by him, supported him and defended him in the only ways I could, online and by buying his stuff.
But I can't in good conscience support that sort of blatant anti-muslim bashing. Or support second-hand, anyone who supports it directly.
Muslims are not the new-Jews, okay?
Don't know if you've noticed but he has distain for all religions. It's just that Muslim fanatics are in the headlines a lot more right now. It's not just one beheading we're talking about:
Muslim father strangles daughter in Canada for refusing to wear a veil
http://www.topnews.in/muslim-father-strangles...
Firebomb attack on book publisher
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/sep/28/muha...
The one good thing about this is that it is forcing Moderate Muslim leaders to confront the barbaric traditions of their faith and speak out against t with force.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
These traditions are not part of the faith. The Quran never ever condones strangling your daughter for any reason- or beheading your wife or anything of the sort. There are no such things as "moderate muslim leaders" anyway. No one speaks for all Muslims- we don't have a "pope".
Just because someone calls himself Muslim doesn't mean that other Muslims know about his habits or agree with him.
personaly i think bill mahers is a one pony douchbag, and a snearing know it all, when hes confronted with real facts and opinions different then his he shushes and shouts them down, and no one talks about the indians the white man murdered for thier lands even the blacks who had just became free men joined in the holocoust that followed the civil war butchering a people who stood up for thier selves and thier way of life , does buffalow soldiers ring a bell?
is Dennis Miller's twin.
Ted Koppel’s dour face and serious talk was not sufficiently entertaining so people flick over to Bill.
She was downright ecstatic to have this incident for her anti muslim dog and pony show. I haven't heard a voice project like that since Steve Marriot fronted Humble Pie. Like listening to an episode of The Nanny at full volume.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
to bring the great Steve Marriot into this.
Marriot had on hell of a voice.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
about today’s broadcasters, it is their willingness to corrupt anything to make a dollar. Given that the ratings sweeps months, February, May, July and November are used to set local market advertising rates, the result is aggressive distortion of the ordinary to attract viewers.
"Gabriel came across to the audience as a funny, personable guest joining Maher in a bit of sarcastic repartee about the story."
Really? Even to my already anti-religious ears she came off as crazy and over the top. Also, if you watched the show, the small talk afterwards, at least to me, would indicate that Maher and the other guests thought she was wierd as well.
If they're high, Maher has more negotiating leverage with HBO.
If they're low, Maher may not be able to ask for a raise.
Controversy attracts viewers. Look at FIXED Noise. Billo, Sean the Aryan Nation Defender. This thread.
"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."
[US Presidential candidate Pat Buchanan, speech to the Christian
Coalition, Sept. 1993, as reported in ADL Report, 1994]
Study the symptoms not the virus...
which none of us should. Sorry, but the idea of "ignore them and they'll go away" doesn't work. We have to engage them. Look at how idiots like Bill O'Reilly handle those who choose not to engage him or whom he claims won't engage him directly - they're cowards who won't come on my show. That's all he has to say and there are people out there who will take the easiest to understand, seemingly strongest position. Avoiding the fight makes us liberals look weak.
I watched this woman and she is crazy, but you can't deny that the tribal followers of Islam make it look bad and beheadings are commonplace there. While I agree that trying to use this to make all of Islam look bad is insane, Maher does not shy away from anyone. Also, don't forget, Maher thinks all religion is crazy as well as atheism, so at least, on that with respect to Islam, he does probably agree with this woman. So why does this shock anyone that he would have her on?
I think while Heather has a point on Brigitte Gabriel at the same time there are some reprehensible common practices among Muslim's in the mid-east that must be exposed and denounced. It's a fine line to walk to be sure.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
And no, pussy footing around because an issue has to do with religion is the worst approach. Why does religion insist that everyone put on the kid gloves when talking about it?
In the great words of Salman Rushdie:
(From the "Satanic Verses")
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
so a fine line of diplomacy is required, you won't force change on these people. They must want to change and that requires their first recognizing there is a problem, then wanting to do something about the problem.
Alienating and demonizing a society’s practices do not change the heart of people. We have seen this first hand in our country in our country, sure you can force laws to be changed and yet people’s hearts will not change. MLK rose above hatred and used example to foster change, it worked so well he was killed for it. What are needed are people with the society willing to raise above their peers reprehensible practices and lead by example and challenge the rest to follow their lead.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
I know you are speaking of Maher's views but atheism is not a religion. And Maher is under the false impression that atheism is "certainty that there is no god". All atheism is is the lack of a belief in god. To ascribe anything more to atheism, to me, obfuscates the issues at hand.
I'll just briefly say that Maher considers himself an agnostic but he doesn't seem to realize that (a)gnosicism is a statement about KNOWLEDGE and (a)theism is a statement about BELIEF. That people can be both agnostic and an atheist at the same time and people can be agnostic theists too.
How comforting it must be for Brigitte to know the source of evil. It’s Muslims, and it is her job to expose them as the evil-incarnate they are.
And every exaggeration starts with a grain of truth. In this case, that grain of truth is the head of this woman on the floor next to her body. An inhumane travesty and barbaric practice, yes. Does this make all Muslims evil? Though the practice of honor-execution is reprehensible, I don’t think it is institutional.
In Chad, there were death-squads sent into refugee camps that hacked off the heads of people who were doing nothing but searching for food and water. They used machetes because it was cheaper than bullets. A travesty, reprehensible, barbaric, and institutional. Source of all evil? Must we now expose them as evil-incarnate and fight wars to stop them? Good vs. Bad and all that.
We (not just the US, but the industrialized World) have made the tribal nomads of the ME into very powerful entities. They owned that sticky black resource that we all love so much, and in paying for it, they have become rich. Were it horses instead of oil that we bartered with them, we would not be having this discussion. They would be the news equivalent of Chad. Had we not invaded their country for their sticky black stuff, we would be referring to them in the terms of ‘I Dream of Jeannie’ with their cute Harems and nifty curved swords. If we didn’t covet their stuff so much, we wouldn’t care.
So why now? Why now are they evil. Why must we now take arms and destroy them in order to save humanity? I don’t recall any protests against Major Nelson owning a Muslim.
the laughter was out of place. i understand maher's tendency to make light of subjects, but murderous decapitation is a new level for him.
Brigitte Gabriel does have a valid point however, sharia does permit honor killings. countries such as saudi arabia, sudan, and parts of pakistan, do operate under sharia.
beheading, female circumcision, stoning, flogging, hanging, acid mutilation, and forced amputation, are but a few of the sanctioned forms of punishment and practices. these are antithetical to western thought and practices.
as long as sharia is a state sponsored and condoned practice we cannot ignore it's consequences.
What irritates me about the reporting of this story is that while this is the fourth decapitation incident in the past year, this is the only one where the media specifically called it a "beheading" rather than a "decapitation" and tried to tie it directly to Islam. The Greyhound bus murder, the recent killing at V.Tech, and another incident in which a father decapitated his own son were NOT treated the same as this one, and the fact that the killer is Muslim is the primary reason for that.
Human rights abuses must be called out, and no one should be able to hide behind "culture" as an excuse. The issue of domestic violence should be front and center here. Christian Americans kill their family members, too, and in horrific ways. Have we already forgotten the man who dressed as Santa and slaughtered his ex-wife's family at their Christmas party?
Don't mistake criticism of Islam and/or certain tenets of Islam with an endorsement of [inser other religion here]. Me, am am non-religious and I call out bs when I see it in all forms. To me, the problem is dogma and the notion of faith being a virtue. When you can have faith then anything is possible since reason goes out the window. Seriously who suffers when people become more reasonable?
But when the subject turns to religion, I can't fucking stand him. He has contempt and judgment for anyone who believes in any faith, all because he thinks HE knows what's really going on with God. He just completely misses the fact that he's just as bad, IF NOT WORSE than the false prophets and proselytizers. He's a false prophet AND a proselytizer, because he won't shut up until everyone on earth believes his beliefs in the lack of God and the futility of faith. I wish he'd just stick to politics, that's what he's good at.
Religion is ridiculous!
Doesn't change the fact that Bill is a dick when it comes to religion.
No, too often religious people are epistomological hedonists ("it feels good therefore it's true") with very delicate sensiblities.
Too often atheists are epistomological nihilists ("it can't be proven with our current methods therefore it's not true") with very delicate sensibilities.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Delicate sensibilities are human nature.
From the Bible:
I like the part about "vain in their imaginations" as it is clearly how the religious view science and rational thought still to this day. That education, discourse and dissent steers people away from faith.
In other words, their faith is so fragile it cannot stand up to critique.
I think that is what "debaser" was implying in more simple terms.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
he believes in the lack of anyone else's God.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
"My mythological deity is superior to your mythological deity."
In twelve thousand years and thousands of religions, no one has been able to prove that the supernatural exists, so I'm there with the contempt that Maher displays. Religions negatively affect politics especially at this point in history with the fundie wing-nut contingent in our country.
Prop h8te passed because of fundie interference in the state of California. This directly affects two members of my family and I am not giving religion a pass. I have no respect for any person that puts belief before facts. Facts must come first in order to live our lives in a civilized manner.
As for Brigitte Gabriel on Islam. As a feminist, I find nothing she says extremist. Does Wafa Sultan present the idea that muslim cultures need correction better than Gabriel? Perhaps her style is better, but she has called ME cultures hateful and uncivilized in far stronger terms than Gabriel.
Sam Harris has declared that the moderates of any religion manage to enable the extemists. The thing is, that the beliefs from moderate to extremist happen on a continuum that is shared between the two. Many of the things Gabriel, like Sultan talk about elucidate Harris' point.
I am an atheist, feminist progressive and I refuse to be politically correct at a point in history where stronger opinions and measures are needed.
Don't back down for a second!
WTF Bill?
I watched the show with my Nephew and he asked if Gabriel was a self hating Muslim.....good question.
He was off his game Friday night, his interview with Ron Paul was bizarre, but the oddest part was when he addressed his panel. At one point Maxine Waters stated that if Americans knew how close we were to total collapse they would be in full panic. At that moment I saw Mahers jaw drop, and then he went off on some strange tangent..........I screamed, BILL, ask her what she knows that the rest of us do not?
Did she say something that she should not have?
Was Bill to stoned to ask the follow-up?
WTF Bill?
'Talk to the hand'
exactly! i was wondering myself what she knows in that regards, myself i believe what shes refering to is that this wpa bill is only a ploy by this government to put off the final reality that theres going to be a revolution here as soon as that moneys all gone,
Maher totally missed the boat with Maxine's comment.
Its fun watching Radical lefties eat their own.
Maher is not and has never been a radical lefty. He was in favor of the Iraq occupation right up until only two years ago or so. It was only after Saddam was captured and the war continued on unabated that he started asking questions about why we're there.
He is only "far left" on two issues -- religion (if being atheist automatically consigns you to the left, that is) and the environment. On most other issues he is very centrist and on the libertarian side of things. Your comment only proves you haven't been watching either of his shows or listening to what he actually says.
There are atheist conservatives! I know many. And lot's of them are sick of religion in politics. There have been several mainstream articles (although I can't seem to find any atm) about conservative atheists calling out the republicans and their relationship with the religious right.
I have been watching Bill since his first season on ABC. Do you remember why he was fired?
http://mediacrit.wetpaint.com/page/The+Cancellation+of+Bill+Maher's+%22Politically+Incorrect%22?t=anon
"Politically Incorrect, a late night talk show hosted by comedian and political pundit, Bill Maher, was cancelled in May 2002 by the ABC Network. The broadcast came to an end months after Maher made a controversial comment on the September 17, 2001, episode of the show. While discussing the characterization of 9/11 terrorists as cowards, Maher stated, “We have been the cowards, lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That’s cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it’s not cowardly”.
Maher’s comment was certainly received as “politically incorrect” to some, including Federal Express and Sears who soon after pulled their advertisements from the show. Some ABC affiliates canceled “Politically Incorrect” from their schedule and White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer, issued a statement: “people have to watch what they say and watch what they do”. Despite the backlash, ABC Chairman Lloyd Braun stated that the controversial material discussed on the show had no bearing in its cancellation."
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What's funny is that in this day and age when we have the Right Wing Radio dominating the airwaves the Left would not see Bill as a gift. So what if he has Right Wingers on his show? Most of the time they get their asses handed to them. Besides, his worst shows were the ones where there wasn't a Republican on the panel. BORING!!! Ann Coulter is an idiot and is exposed as one every time she is on. She knows it. When was the last time she was on?
Bill is clearly far from being a centrist, Libertarian or Republican.
but I read he admitted he is Libertarian.
http://archive.salon.com/ent/tv/feature/2001/...
My mistake. I love it when Canadians correct people. They are so nice about it.
Love your name. Is he still alive? Miami Vice had the best soundtracks of any television show ever!
And the worst clothes.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You're dead wrong. Those loud ass clothes got me some.
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