Barney Frank: The largest spending bill in history is going to turn out to be the war in Iraq
By Heather Sunday Feb 01, 2009 12:00pm
On This Week with George Stephanopoulos today, Rep. Barney Frank points out the hypocrisy of Republicans carping about the stimulus package's costs while having unswervingly supported the Iraq War these past eight years, and how it has turned into the biggest black hole for government dollars ever seen:
STEPHANOPOULOS: Do we have a deal here?
DEMINT: Well, the quickest way to -- to get money in the economy is not to take it out in the first place. And it's interesting, as we talk, like buy-American. We all -- we all want to buy American.
But then we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. We've got a regulatory system that makes us less competitive. So we -- we actually put these people out of work, ship jobs overseas with bad policy, and then we want to put our hand up and stop our imports from coming in.
And this is a government-managed economy which doesn't work. It's inefficient. We obviously have to help people. But the quickest way to get a stimulus is -- is not to be taking so much money out of the economy, for particularly what Fred is -- is saying.
If we could expense -- if companies like FedEx could expense buying an airplane immediately, instead of over a number of years, a lot of companies would make those capital equipment purchases now rather than waiting.
And so it really comes down to a basic argument: Do you want a government-directed plan or do you want the free markets to work?
FRANK: Well, yes, I do want -- I want highways. I want better medical care for people laid off. This notion -- and the one thing I would most disagree with is you say we overregulated. It was the complete absence of regulation in the financial area that led to the crisis we're in today.
DEMINT: It was bad policy.
FRANK: Jim, can I please?
DEMINT: OK, sure.
FRANK: The policy was, yes, to put no restrictions on people outside the banking system who are extending themselves in the financial area into instruments which they couldn't back up. It was even within the banking system, letting people go with things that were off the balance sheet.
The complete absence of regulation in the financial area has, I think, been a disaster. And I think we're back to where we were when Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson stepped in or Franklin Roosevelt.
But beyond that, the notion that everything is solved by a tax cut, of course there are sensible tax policies you could have. But there are public needs we have in this society...
DEMINT: Sure.
FRANK: ... that cannot be accomplished by a tax cut. No tax cut builds a road. No tax cut puts a cop on the street. No tax cut educates a child in -- in the way that it ought to be done.
So this -- only tax cuts, at a time when I think we have a deficiency in some areas that are important for the quality of our life is a big disagreement.
DEMINT: But, George, we -- we have programs. I mean, we're reauthorizing our highway bill this year.
FRANK: At too low a level.
DEMINT: And -- well -- well, let's talk about making it a higher level, but let's don't say it's a stimulus when it's a government spending plan. And all of these things, the needs in our society, education, these are things we debate every year.
FRANK: Spending can be stimulus. I don't understand what you think stimulus is.
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: But this is the largest spending bill in history, and we're trying to call it a stimulus when it's just doing the things that...
FRANK: Well, let me tell you what I think is the largest...
DEMINT: ... you wanted to do anyway.
FRANK: The largest spending bill in history is going to turn out to be the war in Iraq. And one of the things, if we're going to talk about spending, I don't -- I have a problem when we leave out that extraordinarily expensive, damaging war in Iraq, which has caused much more harm than good, in my judgment.
And I don't understand why, from some of my conservative friends, building a road, building a school, helping somebody get health care, that's -- that's wasteful spending, but that war in Iraq, which is going to cost us over $1 trillion before we're through -- yes, I wish we hadn't have done that. We'd have been in a lot better shape fiscally.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is a whole another show, so I'm going to...
(CROSSTALK)
FRANK: That's the problem. The problem is that we look at spending and say, "Oh, don't spend on highways. Don't spend on health care. But let's build Cold War weapons to defeat the Soviet Union when we don't need them. Let's have hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars going to the military without a check." Unless everything's on the table, then you're going to have a disproportionate hit in some places.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: That is a whole another show, so I'm going to...
(CROSSTALK) Leave it to a more qualified panel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxGo0KT8Z7Y
is one of the reasons the economy is where it is. I don't understand how anybody supports any of these buttmunchers that created this mess. They created it, and yet they are going to all get together and fix it? Ya right. Bull.
Hey Barney! Howz about you explain to Mr and Mrs. Taxpayer, how throwing billions at insolvent banks is going to fix the economy. How is giving billions to a bankrupt firm, going to get them out of bankruptcy, when even the billions are not enough.
All these Washington lifers need to get the boot.
... his homosexuality has something to do with his political philosophy or decision-making?
is it this just a random insult because you don't agree with him?
Oh well, lucky him. That makes a difference then. Yep, there is no way he is as responsible for the financial mess, cuz he's gay.
If you mentioned his FannieMac they woulkd take it the wrong way. And don't insinuate he is in bed with Dick Armey.
Apparently the trolls aren't very well informed, huh? I was going to mention FannieMac, but thought, why bother? Obviously these deluded partisans wouldn't believe it anyway.
[I think it might have been the term 'buttmunch' that made the poster think you were being rude about Franks' sexual orientation. I know you so I didn't take it that way-Sitemonitor]
when AIDS wasn't cool. FannieMac is a personal friend although some Mexicans I met once said she only borrowed the sperm from FreddieMae to have those 14 kids.
lol, indeed. apparently i'm just not informed that "buttmunch" is a canadian term of endearment.
carry on, buttmunch... and your point being?
wingnut prejudical comment to me...Frank cleaned Demints plow and the CEO's agreed with him!..Even little 'stephie' could not shut it down....Demint looked like a ill informed confused and lying conservative!
I don't for a second believe you even are Canadian. The Canadians I met last year, who commented on American politics, were much nicer and more diplomatic than you and very disgusted with the Republican administration in power at the time.
Barney Frank is not one of the reasons the American economy is where it is. George Bush and his misbegotten Iraq War, which has cost this country a trillion dollars and put us in huge debt to China and India, is. Republicans who said yes to Wall Street brokers and their affinity for crazy credit default swaps are.
"Concern" is right on the label! That should tell you something right off..
There are no Dems responsible for anything that happened the last 8 years. Nope none at all. Except the ones that voted WITH his bills, huh? Oh sorry, they were all lied into supporting Bush right? Baloney.
The nicer Canadians that "you met last year" are of the same uninformed, poorly vote turnout mindset, as the Republicans. So they agreed with you? Wow. There is a shock. Imagine the shock if you found out everyone thought he sucked. But he was still selected twice. That says something right there.
You cannot blame this mess entirely on the Republicans. That's a copout. Pretending the Dems aren't guilty is childish.
Queens for a paradigmatic shift in support of rapacicous/fallacious neocon reichspukery.
I say that in mature earnesty.
I'm a proud Canadian who has lived in the country for his entire life, and ConcernedCanuck doesn't sound like any Canadians that I have ever met -- including conservatives.
It's not CC. It's known as "John Gabriel's Greater Internet Dickwad Theory".
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
(Gamer web comic - one of it's most famous editions, original link)
http://www.pennyarcademerch.com/pat070381.html
(A cleaner link)
He is from the internet, him using just one impolite word is almost a non-event here. Problem solved. Next?
that you are a right wingnut concern troll.
Neither concerned nor Canuck, which I thought was a derogatory term for a Canadian.
is not a derogatory one. For example, years ago we had a great ski team known as the 'Crazy Canucks'. I even had the good fortune of meeting Steve Podborski once. Really nice guy.
After all, one of our hockey teams is named the "Vancouver Canucks."
It's a friendly term.
sounds like a good republican to me!
I had to point out that the stuff this guy says is truly not representative of how we feel up here. Blaming Democrats for the Republican mess? Being rude in general? Not Canadian.
Visualization of the Bailout compared to other historical expenditures. And some are now estimating the total bailout to be around 8 Trillion as opposed to 4 Trillion when you add it all up.
http://libertymaven.com/wp-content/uploads/ba...
And don't forget the Pentagon somehow lost track of 2.3 TRILLION dollars the day before 9/11 occurred.
You can't waste billions in Iraq, a lot of it flat out lost and stolen, and lower taxes significantly and expect to not destroy our economy as Bin Laden supposedly stated as his goal. Strange times indeed.
70 % of US Corps pay no income tax at all It isn't the rate that causes it It's loopholes so until they pay quit bitching
This is not a 'Conspiracy Theory'... Here's just one source.
Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | U.S. | Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1...
I'm no economist, and I don't really understand much about taxes, but.....
Demint points out that we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, implying that corporations pay the most taxes in the world. If that were true, how come there have been so many wealthy corporations and individuals in this country, in spite of the high tax rates? It's like the Reuters' article points out....most corporations pay no U.S. income tax.
The Bush tax cuts are still in effect.....are the repubes saying cut taxes even more??? How come the economy was a lot better under Clinton, when the tax rates were higher?
It's always tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts....well, DeMint can go screw himself.
Those American hating lefties now think that spending trillions and trillions of dollars is too much to spend on contolling the Bahgdad green zone. Come on now we control 1/2 of a square mile of Iraq. Hope the Russians dont sell them any migs and bombers.
To talk about fiscal responsibility
from the Iraq invasion that would not normally be part of a budget. Fuel costs, and the cost of ammunition replacement. The soldier expense would incur regardless of any war anywhere. How much is spent on a year staffing nuke sites, and nuke studies, and military bases alone?
If Iraq is costing trillions, somebody somewhere is getting aweful damn rich, OR they are going through one heckuva lot of ammo.
... to bother actually keeping up with the situation in iraq for the past 5-6 years? if so, then you'd know who exactly has been getting awefully damned rich and how.
you think Barney Frank, Hillary, Obama and the rest of the Dems don't know? They should, they all voted in SUPPORT of the spending. Come on people, use your heads.
after all, most of us here are not "concerned", we're fucking pissed.
but apparently you believe that those with primary responsibility should somehow get lumped in with everyone else; sort of like, 'we're all to blame because we live in a democract'?
Those Repukes didn't mind when their gov't was issuing no bid contracts and giving billions to companies to do little or nothing in Iraq. Where is the Repukes indignation for the lost billions (in cash) that just disappeared in Iraq or as Orangutan mentions above the unaccounted trillions. One would think Repukes should request an investigation but those f&^%! hypocrites are only concerned with whining about Obama; the swine.
Good job by Barney to slap around DeMento and his psychotic view of America. No road was ever built with tax cuts---indeed.
Certainly Barney Frank is correct when he points out that money that was foolishly spent on Iraq could have been better spent on more necessary items like health care, infrastructure, education, libraries, etc. But what he does not mention is that the President of the United States, who happens to be a Democrat, also wishes to keep troops troops in Iraq while also sending more troops and money into that quagmire known as Afghanistan. Frank also neglected to mention that when Obama was a senator, he voted almost each and every time to keep the occupations going in Afghanistan and Iraq.
As I mentioned in another post, one of the best ways to obtain a single payer health care system in this country is to drastically slash the military budget [as opposed to Obama's paltry 10 per cent] as well as eliminating the supplemental budget for both Afghanistan and Iraq, which ensures that the unjust occupations of those countries will continue under United states rule. Until that is done, the United States will continually be viewed as an imperialistic country while being the only industrialized country in the world that does not provide true universal health care for its citizens.
Congress critters and their fake moral and ethical values, chip in some of their own fortunes to help out the economy?
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/03/congr...
Put your money where your mouths are Congress.
... waiting for you to send a copy of your contribution first.
lol, fake outrage and ethics indeed!
humourous when trolls call regulars trolls? Welcome to C&L troll.
But when confronting fools, make light of their screen names or fascination with lost causes. Then they might get real nasty and ask how old you are.
I've been here quite a while.
And though Democrats are less than perfect, unlike you, I see them as the OBVIOUS lesser of evils and REFUSE to be an "equal opportunity" criticiser when it comes to Democrats and the Republican filth.
your funny my fake friend, i've been reading and posting here for quite some time.
Good luck finding congressmen to take on the military industrial congressional complex. Ever wonder how many of those billions flows back to the likes of Randy Cunningham (whose only mistake was getting caught)?
Daschle shows once again how corrupt politicians are. He makes Geithner look like a saint. This is a culture of corruption. The only difference between the US and Zimbabwe is here we use lawyers instead of machetes.
It will be huge no question but with all these bailouts and stimulus packages, I think that final tally is going to get a run for it's money.
In the mean time the world wonders where the money for all this is going to come from. But hey no one the C&L team is asking that question, because magic elves are afoot and they are going to poof it into existence.
World worries how U.S. will pay for stimulus
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/30/busine...
HELLO!?
Anyone at C&L want to tackle that one, where is the money going to come from for the war, the bailouts, the stimulus packages?
HELLO!?
that supported and voted for all the Bush spending have magically changed their minds. The magic "wand" you ask about, is called a printing press. Every nation on the globe is doing it. Not enough money? Mr. Government gets it printed for you, but wait till the ink dries before you try to spend it.
going tyo invade Canada and steal all of their natural resources.
Harper and the Canadian leaders give it to you cheap. Well, until this Stimulus Bill passes and the trade wars start. Then we'll see if Alberta turns off the oil tap.
Aunt Sarah will just open her ample bosom and keep the flow going for the hungry markets we Loer 48 stand for.
Just like everything else they will just print it!
the mad hatter's tea party is over.
VegasRage
Excellent question. Perhaps from the children and grandchildren of today's generation? With the amount of crushing debt that this country is accruing, it would appear that the agent of change is looking to be more of the same.
A Tax Cut Won't Educate Your Child
mommy, what's a dollar?
One of the things repug yahoos fail to grasp is that EVEN tax cuts are a form of government expenditure, if by which their cheque is in the mail.
but when i read that the richest 400 got richer and none of that trickled down, i have to laugh when repugs keep saying that we need to keep cutting takes
those top 400 payed about 18 percent of their income in taxes...thats it
the whole system is broken
I had been giving Republicans the benefit of the doubt, until watching this program. Republicans are nothing more than partisan obstructionists, playing the single tune of tax cuts.
Here's my blog post on the subject:
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll...
Phony balance sheets as in ENRON ACCOUNTING.
Credit Default Swaps on risky Mortgage Backed Securities aka Cash CDOs and even downright fraudulent synthetic CDOs.
For the security holder they were like insurance, for the speculator the Swaps were inexpensive means of shorting these CDOs. Short selling is done by people who think that a security is going bust. It is a means of outing the fraudulent. And making a bundle in the process.
There are probably $15 trillion in extant Swaps on looming mortgage defaults. Here is Gretchen Morgenson.
While the CDS were a most effective tool to the out the fraud, since the banks could not and cannot pay them off, it is absolutely unconscionable that the US taxpayer should foot the bill.
An enormous bill it is going to be. We have only just begun. At the rate we going it will be OVER $20 trillion all told. Even larger than the money pit that was Iraq.
Barney, hello, Earth calling.
After the Panic of 1907, anti bucket shop laws made illegal the precise type activity that we see and now suffer so severely from in Credit Default Swaps.
YOU VOTED FOR THAT DEREGULATION.
There are public needs indeed. LIKE AN HONEST GOVERNMENT.
Here is a previous comment on who knew what.
Forget trials about torture or war crimes. Blatant theft by the Bush administration and their contractors should be easy to prove, and more readily understandable by the American public, especially in these trying economic times.
Man, he nailed it. And DeMint whimpering, "We... we have programs..." without offering to explain what they are or to even give us the broad strokes, pretty much sums up the GOP's position on shit: They have no programs, they have no ideas, they are the party of No, as in no alternative ideas, no workable programs and nothing to offer but tax cuts and deregulation.
and the interviewer is flabbergasted. He's not used to hearing common sense, that the black hole of Iraq "defense spending" has bankrupted America. After all these years of calling Democrats money wasters, it's the Republicans who must take the blame for ruining the economy.
Felix Rohatyn, the investment banker who organized the bailout of New York a generation ago called credit derivatives financial hydrogen bombs.
In 1989 there were $2 trillion, 1994 there were $8 trillion, 2002 there were $100 trillion.
Last year the gross value of these commitments stood at $596 trillion.
The Village Voice has a great article written by James Lieber, "Up in Smoke, What Cooked the World's Economy".
Read it and weep.
with information from other sources.
Here is my response to one of your previous statements, there are a number of links.
It is not to say that there is not much to weep about. Only that the Voice is problematic.
Also see my comment above. Here is an important article by Gretchen Morgenson in the NYT.
running a faux war economy without really minding the wars, the costs, the injured, the contractors. Now we have to be responsible for those wars. Democrats are guilty but Republican thugs are by far the most villainous here. To think that you can sustain government, government programs and services, two wars and an economy with tax cuts is batshit fucking madness! Time for the Democrats to tune these people out, period! Lunatics!
We as a species are too smart to be so fucking stupid.
I say we implement the Bill Hicks plan.
Take all that money we spend on weapons.. and spend it feeding, clothing, and educating the entire world.. not one person excluded...
Consciousness is what we are...
Imagine how fast we can turn this ride around... and exchange a Grotesque reality for a Glorious one...
It is indeed up to us,... and I think more switches are turned on now, then have ever been.
The squawks are the last pathetic gasps of fear... So lets kick it to a corner, and not stop until its a puddle.
I would guess that the poster who calls him or herself Concerned Canuck is not even Canadian. I am an average liberal Canadian myself and those comments he or she makes sound nothing like a Canadian point of view. 99% of Canadians support Obama and the Democrats.
99% of Canadians are too politically correct to say anything. 99% of smokers agree to all the nonsmoking laws, when asked publicly. And 99% of all polls are total rubbish.
In regards to "Total Rubbish".... was that a scientific poll?
haha
Hey HEATHER you have boldened(sp) the wrong paragraph. The last thing Frank said was much more objective and important.
He almost makes me gay
but not quite!
Canadians are liberal and were not afraid to express their dislike of Bush. We hated the war in Iraq and are grateful to see a sincere person in charge of America once again. Social spending is a GOOD thing. We love our Universal Health Care and want the US to have a similar system.
and what does that have to do with Barney Frank not taking any responsibility for the financial mess? Not a single law in the last 8 years would have passed without support. It wasn't just Republicans that agreed. Dems did too. Hillary, Obama, Pelosi, Frank, Reid, all voted WITH Bush on many many occasions.
Carefull with calling Canadians liberal though. The Liberal Party was booted out because of corruption, and Harper seems to still have support for some reason. Liberal? Maybe we are, but there is no Liberal party in the US. Even the Dems are more conservative than any of our parties in Canada.
he's the only guy that makes any sense on this panel. I'm sure he's the last one that should be blamed for the Bush Disaster Years. Fixing the problem is the main priority, as he well knows. Obama will have a tough time trying to fix what Bush broke.
About Canada, while the Liberal Party is currently not in favour, it has ruled Canada well for most of the last 100 years. Canadians are liberal with a small l. And so are the Democrats.
These guys will never get it, or admit it. Right? So i think it's time to get out the big hook. Problem is, a whole bunch of TV anchors need the same hook i'm afraid. Just to clear the air.
The MSM has become TV for the Bushco dead enders. They will keep trying until ratings put an end to it. When they start the Bush investigation reporting i'll turn my TV back on.
Let's have hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars going to the military without a check." Unless everything's on the table, then you're going to have a disproportionate hit in some places.
I am absolutely amazed how most Republics and some Democrats had absolutely no problem funding the invasion and occupation of Iraq. All GW had to do was ask and they couldn't wait to hand him a check. But let the discussion turn to rebuilding the infrastructure in America and we need to debate it to death. Who are these people representing? Rebuilding schools in Iraq THAT WE DESTROYED is okay, and not worthy of discussion; but building schools and roads in America...........well that's a hand out and we can't have that. Assholes!
is the government even on our side? They'll help every other country except US!
I was waiting for someone to bring this up while Bush was running again in '03. Where the hell were you guys?
All it really would have taken to defeat Bush was two lines:
1) Bush has increase spending at a faster rate than any president in history.
2) 9/11 happened on George Bush's watch.
The Republicans ran on two things, as usual: Security and low taxes/spending.
2004 should have been a rout.
A Dem with a spine... I can't believe they let him out in public.
Towards the end of the exchange, I love the "we can't talk about Iraq" crap. I love this. Yes, let's not talk about problems and wrong decisions and wonder why the hell we are in this situation.
Someone get the feeling the MSM and Repubs are attempting an 8yr memory lapse?
Two months he could not have said those thing they would not have given him airtime and as it is it is always for another show if something is said that does not suit the company line.
Money for an unnecessary, illegal war and failing banks who give their most paid employees more money? Good.
Money to help the working people? BAD!
Thanks, I understand now.
It is Jim Dumbshit!
You should never ask a republican a serious question, all you get is bullshit and lies and stupid ideas.
I hate these stupid fucking republicans!
Good work Barney! The problem is, for every Rep. Frank, there is seven DeMints braying like a team of asses on all the bobblehead shows. It's part of the liberal press' conspiracy against itself I guess.
You take education out of the stimulus package and you put about a million people out of work in this nation. Every one of the small, large, medium sized colleges and universities in this country employs a HUGE number of people from the janitors and food service, the security and grounds people, parking attendants, professors, research facilities within teaching hospitals, doctors, secretaries,office workers, on and on and on. In this country I would venture to guess it would end up being at least 500,000 people.
The Republicans need to start calculating the true costs of their dimwitted tax cuts and trickle down economics.
You spend money, you create jobs. You spend money, you keep people working and they pay taxes.
Frank is right on the money. The occupation of Iraq is the biggest financial boondoggle this country has ever seen... and Republican SHILLS like Stephenopoulus don't want to remind viewers that THE REPUBLICAN leadership is responsible for that mess.
This is a perfect example of how the Dems should present themselves. Thank you Barney for making the point and illuminating what is the largest spending bill in US history. George tries to cut him off - just like the rest of the MSM who has been featuring 2 Republicans for every Democrat since Obama was sworn in. I'd say there are a few nervous corporations out there. Too bad the only straws they reach for are Repugs.
Barney, Barney you so harney!
Time to turn another page for the Rep. from Mass.
He tries to get frank to stop because he starts to get at the heart of the matter. He wants a panel because they can Bs and not get to the truth. Defense and war spending as always been that one thing the GOP tries to force out of any debt Study or analysis.
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