Anderson Cooper Asks Birther Arizona Rep. Cecil Ash Why He's Perpetuating Internet Rumors
Anderson Cooper does a pretty good job with calling out wingnut birther Arizona State Representative Cecil Ash for his decision to support a bill that would make Arizona the first official birther state (edited to make it safe for work):
Can anyone tell me exactly what the f**k is wrong with the state of Arizona? There are at least twenty-two rational people there. But not enough to stop the Arizona state legislature from passing a law that, “Would require U.S. presidential candidates who want to appear on the ballot in Arizona to submit documents proving they meet the constitutional requirements to be president.”
In other words, Arizona is well on its way to becoming the first official birther state. Mesa Republican Representative Cecil Ash stated that, “He has no reason to doubt Obama’s citizenship but supports the measure because it could help end doubt.” Really? End the doubt, eh? He is apparently unaware that only the truly insane believe that sh*t in the first place. I know that there is some doubt lingering out there in Wingnuttia. I also know that this grim fairy tale is being deliberately propagated by people who know it to be untrue. But they have a political agenda and won’t let a little thing like the truth get in the way of delegitimizing the nation’s first black President.
He said as much to Anderson Cooper and I give Cooper credit for at least asking this guy if he should know better than to be doing this because unlike his uninformed constituents, he's in a leadership position.
Cooper: So why vote for something which perpetuates these false Internet rumors?
Ash: Well Anderson I think there’s been a lot of controversy over the issue. It’s created a division among a lot of people in the United States and for better or worse many people don’t believe he’s a U.S. citizen. They believe he has loyalties… ah… divided loyalties I suppose you could say.
Cooper: But those people are wrong. He is a U.S. citizen.
Ash: Well, you’re telling me that he’s wrong. I’ve never investigated that. If he is then he has nothing to fear.
Cooper: But I mean, the information is out there. It has been released. It has been shown. There are some people who don’t believe it, but there are also some people who believe that the moon is made out of cheese and you can say you’ve never investigated it but I think you would probably say to them the moon is not made out of cheese.
Ash: Well, I certainly would but the reason I spoke up on this bill is simply because there is a lot of division in the country and I believe this would put an end to any future controversy about a President’s qualifications.
Cooper: You told our producer you voted for this because you get a lot of calls from constituents who have questions based on things they read on the Internet. I mean isn’t it your job as a leader to actually lead; to not just throw up your hands and say well who knows what’s real or not on the Internet, to actually say well, actually Hawaii has released this information and it’s factually correct?
Ash: Well as I said I haven’t personally investigated that but I think that if…
Cooper: But I mean there’s plenty of things you believe that are not personally investigated? Why this you’re holding on to?
We know why Anderson. The guy's playing to the lowest denominator in the Republican base and demonizing our first black President. Anyone else notice how he continually uses the word "qualified" instead of "eligible". Cooper should have called him out for that one as well.
I'm sure this won't shock anyone, but guess who Cecil Ash is a fan of? Glenn Beck -- from his Twitter page.
There is nothing wrong with requiring someone to show that they are qualified to run for office. Anderson Cooper kept asking Rep Cecil Ash questions and then kept cutting him off and not letting him finish.
That the qualifications for president are set forth in the Constitution, and that Barack Obama meets them, which makes this bit of legislation nothing more than a political stunt catering to idiots who can't get their trollish brains around the idea that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, his birth certificate has been examined and found to be legitimate, and both Congress and the Supreme Court have no questions.
His MOTHER was a citizen, he could have been born on the freakin moon and he'd still be a citizen, what part of that don't these numbnuts get?
"Why can't he be white like all the previous presidents?"
I want Barack to prove he is black! I think he is faking it.
:)
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
The Brown Paper Bag Test. (David Alan Greer)
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
I resemble that.
is an IDIOT. He admits to not investigating but, nevertheless, goes ahead with this garbage legislation. "There's a lot of confusion out there" -- not really -- a lot of RACISM and myopia to be sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGyCXvzmdYc
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Because Ash's answers were completely disingenuous, and needed to be called out as such. This sort of "gee-willickers, can't believe everything you see on the Internet" line of reasoning is an utter sham: this guy knows Obama was born in US, but he'd happily score political points with the far-right haters that make up his constituency. BTW, http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/ is a great resource for anybody still confused about any aspect of the "birther" saga.
has been here on C&L for less than 2 hours so his opinion I suspect come from Ash's district in Arizona.
Arizona has gone absolutely bat-shit crazy and that's who Ash is catering to.
Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson,Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush II? And all those Presidents who came before them.... BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL WHITE!!!
You incredibly stupid poor excuse for a human being!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
they didn't have scary names.
This so-called "law" is going to be struck down by the Federal Courts.
As a member of the Republic, Arizona can not legislate requirements for a national office.
If they don't like it, they can secede. Otherwise, they...like you...should read the Constitution and be quiet.
Here's a suggestion.
"Best to remain silent, and thought an idiot. Than to speak, and remove all doubt."
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
If there's nothing wrong with this, then let's make ALL politicians, past, present and future, PROVE they are qualified for office. Right off the bat, I can disqualify Bachman, Foxx, Cantor, Boehner, McConnell, Nelson, (B)Lincoln, Vitter, Lieberman, the whole of the Arizona State Legislature, most of Tennessee's, at least half of Texas', part of Ohio's, and some segments of the rest of the states.
In fact, I'd say that there isn't 1 in 100 that is truly qualified to hold public office.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green
Freedom Ain't Free - Pay Your Share
It might be worth while to test candidates for political office for sanity, but then again, such a test could possibly decimate the both the house and senate.
A sanity test would have kept Tom Tancredo out seeing as how he used his mental status to keep himself out of the draft. He used his history of mental illness as proof to get himself declared unfit for military service. And then he wanted to have his finger on "The Button?" Are you fuckin' kidding me?
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Dear eg123,
What's next, a literacy test? How 'bout a poll tax?
What's it like in that 20% world?
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
in eg123 case a literacy test would be a good start. Then a test on what he believes from the likes of a Beck and Bachmann.
is intended to be a factual statement
Nope, none of those, just a birth certificate please?
It has already been shown. What century are you in?
they never showed it on Fox "news."
and have gotten quite a laugh. Your hilarious. Seriously, should he mail it to you personaly so you can hold it in your own sweaty little palm.
Perpetuating this obscenely racist talking point is additional proof that you losers have absolutely shit to run on.
They already have laws on the books covering who can run and who can't why did they feel the need for another one?
Cause the key to winning GOP nominations is to be crazier than the next guy.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
citizenship for presidential candidates, but if they do, they give up the right to participate in all presidential elections. Okay? If you make up your own rules, you can't play in the game. Bye, now. I also have an idea for Arizona. Solar collectors--the entire state will be covered with solar collectors and all citizens will be scattered to the other states.
That's obviously one of the worse trolling attempts I've seen in a while. Thanks for lowering the bar there.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
Ash was just repeating the same justifications and pleas of helpless ignorance over and over. Ash wasn't providing facts or fresh reasoned arguments. There was no reason for Cooper not to do some interrupting since Cooper had actual fresh points to make and evidence to discuss.
Obama has shown he is qualified to run. Birthers just refuse to accept it. The reason this legislation is creepy is because it is so obviously targeted specifically against Obama and his African heritage and pandering to xenophobic hysteria. It has never been made an issue of before despite America being a land of immigrants and even during the election nobody was making the slightest noise about investigating McCain's birth in Panama.
The legislation is also unnecessary because presidential candidates are already vetted.
made an fool of himself.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
BTW. This non-issue of "requiring someone to show they are qualified to run for office" never came up until a Democrat, who is black and named Barack Hussein Obama ran. This non-issue is so obviously racist and to try to argue otherwise just shows you that you are a racist.
Don't you mean never taught in schools? I have listened to a couple of beck's ignorant circle filled rants and the reason it was never taught is it never happened!
Jesus when the people are so stupid as to take history lessons from an idiot like beck I guess we truely are screwed as a country.
Can you believe this stupid bullshit? Can anyone outside the mental hospital get on fox?
Conservatives are incapable of coping with a changing world, and will immediately hew to anything that supports their static worldview, even if it's wrong.
It's like the geocentric solar system; observers couldn't explain why planets would occasionally slow, then appear to reverse their motion in the sky ... so they added epicycles. Except the retrograde motion would occur again, so they added epicycles to the epicycles, rather than admit that the religious view of Earth being at the center of the solar system was wrong.
Really, you were at that seminar? You knew was Beck was talking about, or did you think he was only talking about what he talks about on his program. I think Beck can be extreme too, too much for my taste, and I wasn't at that seminar, but I am not foolish enough to tell everyone that what he said there, was wrong, when I actually wasn't there.
Oh absolutely, everyone knows you can't comment on what happened at an event by only viewing the video.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
You'd think that adults would be able to figure out the difference between "history," whether taught in schools or not, and "revisionism."
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It's NEVER revisionism when Republicans do it...
... YES?
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
when you're a rethug. You make all rethug things good; all dem things bad.
... the inverse is also true; all good things came from the right, and all bad ones came from the left. The right wing has claimed ending slavery, civil rights, worker's rights, you name it, and has put the blame for Nazis, fascists, anti-abortion killers, anti government terrorists and all deficit spending (I've heard that most republicans over the last 30 years were actually liberals that the left planted to de-legitimatize conservatism...) on the left. It's a pretty nifty system of denial of reality, actually...
I suspect Beck thinks they should be teaching some of his baseless fantasies, however.
The requiremtn is to vague to be implementeda and will probably be knocked down in the state level Supreme Court.
I'm guessing they will try it out on somebody who is brown or black or has a funny last name. In any case the sooner someone gets it into court the better.
If it does make it to the Supremes you would think they would knock it down for lack of specificity and disallow the state to make decision about refusing to allow a Dim, Repo, etc. local, state, or nationally nominated candidate to appear on the state's ballots thus denying the right of the citizens to vote their choice.
Sadly with Roberts and Scalia et. al you never know what kind of crazy is going to come out.
What a dumbfuck! My dog has a better grasp of history than Glenn Beck.
Cecil Ash- you ignorant nodding donkey.
beck could teach dogs a thing or two about licking one's own testicles
It's kinda trashy.
[I'll issue the warnings around here. If the language makes you clutch your pearls, you may want to find another site upon which to post-Sitemonitor]
You're going to pull a language card?
Wow.
Ash isn't stupid. He's the crème de la crème of his stupid constituents.
His voters get what they deserve: A representative with no backbone.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
Beck... Inspiring.... Scary for someone in a leadership position. Oh, wait, Beck, inspired, Mesa, This tool is bagger through and through and from Mesa, Mormon Bagger. That's the worst kind. I really hate seeing what's happened to the state I love and grew up in.
what is going on in AZ? nutjobs abound
Obviously, not enough air conditioning.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOrFlGWaMPU
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
This seems to be a trend.
I was ticketed for not having insurance on my vehicle,. I did, but did not have the card. A friend was driving the vehicle. The city wanted me to pay a fine because they said my friend was not insured. I told them California law makes it so the insurance travels with the vehicle, not the person. The city required me to get a letter from my insurance company to restate this fact. My insurance company was flabbergasted. They had never had a request like mine, and it was State Farm.
tl;dr The city tried to make me pay a fine until I provided proof in writing of a commonly applied law.
"My wife and friend" went to the Glenn Beck show. Is he saying that his wife and a friend went or is he friends with his wife or did he just marry a friend for convenience. Inquiring minds want to know.
Isn't that the same line the Nazis used when rounding up 'undesirables'? If you have your papers in order, you have nothing to fear. I know the Bushies used it for their illegal wire tapping and search and seizure activities: "If you are not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to fear". This is the line of a tyrant attempting to justify behavior he knows is wrong.
That is the lamest argument I or anyone has ever heard. All the bill says, is for canidates to prove what is already stated in the constitution. Rep Ash said he does believe Obama was born in the US, but the bill states that future canidates have to prove to AZ that they are qualified. No big deal, if they are qualified to run, they are qualified to run.
And in AZ citizens are now required to carry proof of citizenship with them at all times, in case they are stopped by a cop, who can say to them,
" Show me your papers. I want to see your papers."
Ahyes, land of the brave, home of the free, but show me your papers.
what this bill says, or you wouldn't say such an ignorant comment. You don't have to show "papers" you just have to have a drivers license, that is all. You have to have a drivers license any way to drive around. If I get pulled over and they ask me if I am a citizen and I have forgotten my drivers license, then I have to go to court to show that I do have a drivers license, which I would have to do anyway. Please research before you make comments like this, so you don't misinform other readers.
If I get pulled over and they ask me if I am a citizen and I have forgotten my drivers license, then I have to go to court to show that I do have a drivers license
Oh. Why doesn't Arizona just issue an identity card and stop horsing around.
They're only increasing the paranoia. Move on to full blown fear, then they can create youth brownshirt groups, request everyone to spy on their neighbors and cut right to the chase.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
... proof of citizenship.
Which is why you have to show your birth certificate to get a passport. You show your driver's license to confirm that you are the person named on the birth certificate.
Please research before you make comments like this, so you don't misinform other readers.
Alberto Gonzalez (no, not THAT Alberto Gonzalez) was arrested and held in a Barstow jail until his wife could bring his birth certificate. He was "questioned" at a weigh station and even though he produced his CDL chauffeur's license (MUCH harder to get than a regular driver's license).
BTW, asshat, in THIS country, you don't have to carry ID unless you're operating a motor vehicle. This law doesn't make a distinction.
....or is that just some lame debate tactic you got from your Conservative Yapping 101 pamphlet? "Papers" is a joke about fascism, making his snark relevant and your reply clueless.
I'm just superstitious enough to hedge my bets.
You're the prosecutor browbeating a witness about his qualifications.
Defense counsel will call an objection: 'asked and answered, your honor.'
You will be told to move on to the next question.
Cooper: But those people are wrong. He is a U.S. citizen.
Ash: Well, you’re telling me that he’s wrong. I’ve never investigated that. If he is then he has nothing to fear.
He clearly either DOES NOT believe he is a citizen, OR he is cynically manipulating those who don't.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
at the stupidity of that asshat Cecil Ash....the way he kept dodging the reason those morons in AZ wanted Obama to prove his birthplace....considering his stupid answers, I was expecting him to say because he had not visited all 50 states, that the United States consisted of only those he had physically been in--maybe the 20 United States of America. And, I am astounded that such a raving loony could be a lawmaker anywhere in any country. Because he was not present at the signing of the Constitution, I guess we don't have one, huh? And, Cooper forgot to ask the most important question--why had Mr. Ash not come forth with his demands for proof of birthplace before, when all the presidential candidates/winners WERE WHITE?!!!
Oh, and BTW, he DOES think the moon is made of cheese.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
"So why vote for something which perpetuates these false Internet rumors?"
i think we know why rethug politicians perpetuate the ludicrous and ridiculous: they are only trying to represent their base
He should have asked him what country he thought John McCain was born in?
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
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“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Unfortunately the mainstream media has no better record of getting at the truth than the internet that they so roundly and proudly decry. And that is the real problem here.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
... as a SOCIETY, we now KNOW less and have greater access to sources like the internet, which lends itself to the 'skim & repost' school of research.
This is where the ignorance of Glenn Beck comes into play - people don't KNOW their history, and become easy prey to 'fact' spew.
.
(Or, in some cases, tea.)
You decide.
There is reason to believe that Cecil Ash was the son of a pair of long-tailed weasels. I haven't studied the issue myself, but I think we need to have Mr. Ash prove that his parents are not weasels. I suspect he's going to have a hard time doing so.
the offspring of long-tailed weasels, they're probably forgeries, and not to be believed for one second.
Don't confuse me with facts; my mind is made up.
As a matter of habit?
Do you realize that this makes you an ideal candidate for a mugging, as with that piece of paper, someone can steal your identity far more effectively than simply gaining your credit card number?
... throughout baseball season, since we have notable players named Ramirez, Sandoval, and Martinez, not to mention folks who come from the Dominican Republic and Japan, some of whom can't speak English.
if they run for president, but lucky for us the constitution does not say that baseball players have to be born in the U.S. to stay.
That Arizona has SB1070 awaiting the governor's signature, which requires LEO's to ascertain the immigration status upon 'reasonable suspicion'?
Do you see a pattern in this anti-immigrant paranoia?
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Dear Rep. Cecil Ash,
Pandering to the 20% of the crazies in the world legitimizes their crazy as somehow, normal. This is a fools folly you are partaking in. You serve a disservice to your constituents by pandering to the crazy few at the expense to the majority.
WHY?
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Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
It's not 20%, it was 20% who don't believe he is a citizen and another 30% give or take who don't know or aren't sure. 50% is a very large margin, wouldn't you say? And a bill that just asks for proof, doesn't say for Pres Obama to step down, just says that future canidates have to show proof, is not that big of a deal.
Oh...we just wanna make sure. LOLOL.
Yeah...we played that game in the grade school schoolyard.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Damn, AC is a good-lookin' man
Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.
is the fundamentalist perspective, to dominionists all government is illegitimate because it is not christian. remember how the attack machine went after the clintons? there were all kinds of smears. to people like the c street gang, any tactic is legit that gets the unbelievers out of office. this is lee atwater, karl rove kind of politics.
i think there is a mixture of stuff going on here, conspiracist views that all government is of the "beast", racism, party politics, etc.
to simply write this off as racism is to miss some of the nuances.
Truth be told, we're damn lucky all of these disparate nuts, racists, authoritarians, and corporatists aren't on the same page yet.
It's bad enough they're on the same PLANET.
birthers and racist immigration laws...
Mr. Steele, we won't blame ya a bit to pass on this hot bed of racist tea party fanatics. Look elsewhere and improve the deplorable white faced GOP image.
And to all the other companies considering moving your operations to AZ,....best check your "to do" list twice.
Sounds like you have some major anger issues you need to work out. Why does your defense go to race immediately, no one is talking about race except you. This is a great bill that I support, and Ash wasn't claiming that Obama was not a citizen, Arizona just wants for future canidates to have to prove that they meet the qualifications to Arizona. If Obama has already proven that he meets the requirements them we are good, or if future canidates can prove it then great, everything is good, they meet the qualifications great, they meet the requirements of the bill and can move on. If canidates are being honest, then they have nothing to fear and it will stop all of this controversy that is in the press.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUtbhoYTHcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3cLSnzN-p0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
If they are legal immigrants they have nothing to fear, uhh.... unless they left their ID at home or maye lost it or maybe someone stole it. If, if, if shit didn't happen.
is 'if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear'.
Also a weak defense for illegal wiretapping, if anyone remembers...
or ignorant?
i can't figure it out...
[Please everyone, let's keep it on topic and arguing issues on their merits. Don't pound on a new guy because s/he's expressing a different viewpoint. I'm often tempted myself, but let's keep it cool. Thank you-Sitemonitor]
Ash's anger stems from the fact that he's white and not qualified nor has any national presence to run for...much less attain...the Presidency.
Then there's the whole "south of the border" inadequacies and paranoia endemic to these types of white guys...and I'm not referring to Mexico.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Ash didn't sound angry at all, and again, why is it that we always go to race, race has nothing to do with it. legal and illegal have everything to do with it.
Bullshit, the requirements are listed in Article II, Sec I, Cl 8, period...
By the VI article and the XIV amendment Arizona has to abide.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Oh...and this whole thing isn't driven by racism. Is that what you're saying now? You have a right to be ill informed. You have a right to be ignorant, but please don't come here and insult our intelligence with your cognitive dissonance, and evasion.
AND...there's nothing to discuss. Arizona's proposed law is in violation of the Constitution. Period. End of story. Thanks for playing.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
It absolutely is not driven by racism, the bill does not ask Obama to step down as president, it doesn't say that all canidates who aren't white have to provide documentation, it just asks that future canidates comply with the statutes set forth in the constitution. It makes perfect sense! I love how AC kept cutting Rep Ash off and trying to make him look foolish, and the whole time Rep Ash was calm and answered the questions very well. Thank you for playing.
about providing a BC.
me-oww!
... which president has not complied with the statutes set forth in the Constitution.
it just asks that future canidates comply with the statutes set forth in the constitution
Then I suggest that Mr. Ash, yourself and all those that support this "legislation" actually READ the Constitution.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
So, if this passes and I travel to Arizona from out of state, will I have to carry my Passport or Birth Certificate in order to enter the State?
Gonna be tough getting around a state with no mass transit if I can't rent a car either. I'd be afraid of being pulled over.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Why won't you address Lib and Proud's points about the Federal constitution? This is a redundant law that serves no purpose and leads one to conclude the motivation is political.
Arizona is known for racism. I've been here many times. Right wing state for sure. Lots of open racists at AZ tea-bag rallies too, even neo-nazis hanging out with law enforcement.
The supposed injustice this law would cure obviously is centered around the election of our nation's first black president, generating the birther controversy of which you yourself cite figures and show an obvious bias.
Given all of this...how are you surprised at the reaction you're getting?
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
That the qualifications for the presidency are defined in the Constitution, and that it is NOT part of those powers reserved to the states to demand further proof.
Otherwise you could argue that while the Constitution stipulates 'no religious test,' Arizona could require the president to be Christian, Utah could require the president to be a Mormon, and so on.
The bill adds nothing to the process, nor does it close any loopholes or oversights. Which is why Ash is perceived to be a racist.
.. a young girl either.
However, suing the website that made the allegations but not answering them in a court of law really does look suspicious. If Obama just sued birthers but Hawaii never put up a certificate (but they did) it would look just as bad.
Sure, Beck is almost certainly innocent. But this really needs to be cleared up before his contract is renewed. Really, look what just happened to Ben Roethlisberger, and that was just rape not rape and murder. If Beck was being honest, then he had nothing to fear from the media or that website and the controversy would have gone away. But no .. he sued to hide it! Please I beg of you Arizona pass a law to stop this travesty!
I'm not angry, I'm tired ... so tired of this old meme. Please Mr. eg123 come up with a better one ... please I beg you. Even it's parody is old and tired.
and won't post my humongous but informative FAQ/discussion point in this thread. but click on my profile to find it. its good stuff for sure.
I worked for 2 years in the birth certificate office, and know the laws and procedures like the back of my hand. (to be honest, I'm still stunned that nobody in the major media has actually interviewed anybody experienced in Vital Statistics since we're, you know, the experts on the topic .. but I digress ..)
instead, I'd like to point out something interesting.
Hawaii, as I mentioned in previous posts, barred the practice of issuing long form birth certificates, in June of 2009. so if the Arizona AG refuses to accept the short form copy which was already provided on factcheck.org ..
.. then Arizona faces a massive discrimination suit, likely spearheaded by the ACLU, for discriminating ALL US citizens born in Hawaii from running for president.
Hawaii is one of about 15-20 states which has barred the practice of printing long forms. its a cumbersome, slow and expensive process which delivers a shoddy result to the customer. so the discrimination will extend beyond just barring Hawaiian-born US citizens from submitting their name to the Arizona election ballot.
BUT WAIT!! the plot thickens even more!
guess who one of the *OTHER* 15-20 states is, that has barred the practice of printing out long form birth certificates??!
you're never gonna believe this but .. thats right folks Arizona will not issue a long form birth certificate to anybody born after 1990.
***
so either Arizona will need to make some MASSIVE legislative changes .. including deciding whether or not to deem all previous documents delivered to citizens who submitted a short form birth record (drivers licenses, passports, school enrollment, etc) .. and including deciding whether or not to re-issue long forms free of charge (a massive expense) or telling Arizona citizens "sorry that document we gave you isn't really valid you'll need to buy a new one, they're $20" ..
Arizona will either need to sort out the answers to the fact that they have also deemed the short form birth certificate to be a legitimate record of self identification ..
or, they'll just have to glibly accept the same damn document thats already on factcheck.org
which will leave the birthers angry at men like Cecil Ash. in fact, one way or another, Mr. Ash is going to upset a significant number of constituents by 2012 when this law is actually applied to a real life situation.
enjoy your short, meaningless political career, Mr. Ash.
are a very homogeneous,insular lot that has no experience or desire to travel very far outside their comfort zone. Passports are almost non existent among their friends and families. Most probably the only time they have ever produced any form of identity documentation is on their initial drivers license application. From then on that is all they have needed. Over ten years ago on my passport application, an original long form birth certificate was declined. When I applied for a new one guess what the state provided. One identical in style to the one provided for Obama. Seems to get me out of and into the country just fine.
... and the U.S. Government accepted his evidence when they issued him a U.S. passport. An official government document which is routinely used as proof of citizenship by anyone applying for a job.
If Ash and these morons are so concerned about internet rumors, what about the one that says John McCain is not eligible to serve (we all know he's not qualified, you have to be sane to be qualified) because he wasn't born in the United States. Something McCain has never denied.
I can hear it now.
"But, he was born on a U.S. military base." Where's your proof? Do you have witnesses? We have only his word he was born on the base.
"But, he has papers." Could be forged.
"But, he's white." Oh. Never mind.
The thing about Arizona is that they're moving toward a police state under the guise of fear of a police state.
It's really gonna screw up their tourism. They may have to close the Gila monster exhibit.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8trsDPpAI5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qc1H2SMK1s
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
McCain was NOT born on a military base. He was born in the city of Colon, in the Canal Zone, but not on base. DEPORT THE BASTARD!
is that he should have started with and stuck to the "Moon is green cheese" argument. Forget about Obama, let's just talk about the undeniable possibility that we've got a huge load of coagulated cow's milk orbiting this planet, and what are we going to do about it.
I'm pretty sure Ash has not personally investigated the green cheese question, so there's no reason not to assume it's just as valid as any other "theory" of what that big, delicious-looking thing is made of.
Then why didn't this come up when Ronald Reagan was running for office? Or Bush 1 or 2 twice. Or even Clinton. Could it be because the right has moved off the edge or just a bunch of racist idiots?
is intended to be a factual statement
YES! LOL!
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
these people will never be satisfied until there is a white face back in the white house. Though they will adamantly deny they are racists, we all know better. They are afraid of the scary black man and nothing will ever change their tiny minds.
White male bigotry doesn't stem totally from their tiny minds.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
made about Jesus? I mean fishes and loaves, water to wine, Lazarus? The walking on the water, leaving the cave after he's dead and showing up all over town with those ghastly wounds? But I'll bet he believes it based on The Bible, which to nuts like this is to be take at face value, as in literally, no investigation necessary.
But get one Black pres, with a state-issued certified copy of his BC, and accompanying newspaper reports from the time, and no, not enough. They want the doctors and nurses present, their names, and for them to recall a baby born in 1961, one of thousands of births they attended, and swear it's the same guy.
The real miracle would be if these assholes would STFU and believe the truth.
me-oww!
My family doctor passed away over a decade ago. I was born the same year as Obama.
back in time, like Scott Bakula, say, in that show he was in before 'Enterprise,' into the delivery room, as Obama's Mom, they'd still deny it. And my doctor was about 70 when I was 3, so I don't think he's around anymore, and has been for decades.
me-oww!
I would like to see you birth certificate please.
:P
Or that they are " raptured " the hell out of here , all of them !
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
They better hope they aren't "raptured" anywhere near where "Deadeye" Dick Cheney happens to be duck hunting. Might get a tad messy.
I called Rep. Ash office in AZ , (602) 926-3160, and said I saw Anderson Cooper's interview and was stunned Ash would not simply say, yes, Barack Obama is a natural born citizen. I asked her, if Ash believed Obama is an American. She said Ash had not made a statement about it. I then asked her, do YOU believe Obama is an American? She said she was not allowed to voice an opinion. Well, I then asked, do you believe the President's NAME is 'Barack Obama'. Her answer stunned me - she said she was not sure, she had no way of knowing for certain. Well, I pressed, is he black or white? She said 'black', that she knows that because she can see that he is black.
These freakin' racist SOBs do not even accept that his name is Obama. Call and ask. Call 602-926-3160 and simply ask what the presidents name is.
Damn , what an asshole ! Myself , I want to see Palin's GED or high school diploma , as far as any college degree , she earned hers about as much as Bush did his . " Ain't" nooooooooooooooooo way !
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
I'd like to see all her college transcripts, but the ecological cost to forests is too great.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
And did she have sex with that woman? We need a special investigator.
Oh no wait, wrong politician, my bad!
Can we see God's birth certificate, Cecil?
I have a question.
Are there a group of people that take turns joining sites like this in order to grace us with your incites, opinions and clear grasp of the law, or is it simply one person registering under various email addresses?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
is? Luntz? Rove? Beck? O'Reilly? Ailes? It could be many, like the Dick Army.
to mix among us "peasants".
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
None of the above.
They wouldn't post so intelligently or eloquently.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Super-cool comment, bro!
This is taking states' rights to its absurd, unconstitutional limit.
Arizona passes a STATE law limiting the jurisdiction of FEDERAL election laws and the laws of another state, namely Hawaii.
Ridiculous on its face.
... just unconstitutional. The Federal Government, in setting forth the qualifications for one to be president, clearly establishes such as their right.
There is no entitlement to such powers as a 'state's right' issue.
That's my point.
FUCK! If you guys keep bring up all these Constitutional facts, you're gonna really upset eg123's day.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
First, not directed at you.
Second, I see you've come to the realization that you have no foundation for your argument and are now resorting to the typical right wing responses.
When do you reach the part where you scream.."What about the children!!"
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
If racism is not the reason for this proposed law, then what is the reason?
Ash is a representative in the last state to honor Martin Luther King, Jr. And also ironically, when Barry Goldwater ran for the presidency, he was technically not a native of the United States. When he was born, Arizona was still a territory. BUT NOBODY EVER REALLY TOOK ISSUE WITH THAT!
webmaster, Fox News Lies ( http://foxnewslies.net )
I read somewhere that some Republicans challenged Goldwater's right to stand for the GOP nomination in '64 on the grounds that he wasn't a 'natural born' citizen.
On the same basis, neither was John McCain in '08.
If McCain had won in '08, I couldn't imagine any Democrats questioning his citizenship. That's what makes this whole "birther" thing stink. They just don't know how to lose with class.
webmaster, Fox News Lies ( http://foxnewslies.net )
.
Actually if either parent is born in the US, or was naturalized, than the child is natural born based on Ius Sanguine.
However, such laws as Arizona are proposing are not only racist due to the context of the law, if not the content as well, also appear to be sexist, because I wonder if anyone would question Obama's citizenship, if his mother was foreign born, and his FATHER American. Additionally, if such were the case he'd also have more of a conventional name thus bringing some kind of bigotry back into the picture.
Also considering that john mccain has been a senator of Arizona for decades, was the republican candidate in 2008, and was also not born in the US, but the question has never really been raised regarding him, makes one wonder what necessitates the law now.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You can't debate anyone that's devoid of reality.
The facts mean nothing to the Birther Movement. Obama could personally go to each one of the so-called Birthers and show each one his birth certificate and all of them would scoff at it.
Jesus could come down and raise Ronald Reagan from the dead and both of them say that Obama is an American, and the Birthers will still want further proof.
While the rest of us that are rooted in reality would say: "Why did Jesus just raise Ronald Reagan from the grave?"
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
It has nothing to do with Obama, silly.
He's creating a zombie army!
Jesus vs. Zombies
"Peter, you will be rock in which I'll build my church. But first you must pick up a rock and start smashing some zombie heads."
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KLW7tf_Kio&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...how did I know you were going to link to that?
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