Sebelius: Public option not 'essential'
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Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told CNN's John King that insurance co-ops could work in place of a government insurance option. Sebelius said that there should be "choice and competition" but a public option was not "essential."
"I think what's important is choice and competition and I'm convinced at the end of the day, the plan will have both of those. But [a public option] is not the essential element," said Sebelius.
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spins in his grave as his quisling daughter sells us down the river.
Why the hell hasn't Obama shown some strong leadership on this issue?
aren't there in the Senate and most likely won't be. I'd rather have a shot at a 2nd Obama term and I'm sure he would as well.
Holding his feet to the fire on the public option a lose/lose.
Do you really think that America would turn against Obama for giving the American people what we want? Are you kidding? And once the people see it actually works then we have some solid ground to get Obama re-elected. He is selling us out for big business. If the votes aren't there then Obama needs to show leadership and get his party on board. - Is it just that after 8 years of do-nothing and do-overs that we don't know what a ture leader is anymore?
for health care reform, but not for a public option, at this point, and that's why the Blue Dogs won't vote for it now. The votes are simply not there and won't be. If moderate/liberal Dems push for it, the whole thing will collapse and it'll be Romney in 2012.
Wonder how he feels about a public option?
There is not only widespread support for a public option, but the real preference of people is for single payer. Only the ignorant, the brainwashed, and the just plain stupid and greedy, are against single payer. Where do you get your facts, from Fox Noise?
Where do you get your facts, from Fox Noise?
There are no facts on fux nooz.
(sorry I misspelled it)
Here.
We have a majority in the Senate, but not on this issue. We wouldn't even break 50 on the public option, and even though Obama will definitely not be winning Salesman of the Month, it's not fair to put all of the fault on him.
As I've said, taking the public option any further will get the whole thing quashed and seriously damage Obama's chance at a 2nd term, and 2nd terms are where the REAL policy action is.
All that would be needed is 50 +1 votes. I agree wholeheartedly that it's not all Obama's fault, but he's the one we hired to uphold the constitution and fight corruption, injustice, partisanship etc.
Convince me that if health insurance reform= Co-opts and mandated coverage, that the president would deserve a second term, based on any idea other than the least of the two evils.
Lastly, enlighten me on your statement "and 2nd terms are where the REAL policy action is"
there will not be 50+1 under any circumstances this year for a public option. It cannot and will not happen. Period. And continuing to chase it defeats ALL health care reform for at least 8 years if by some miracle Obama wins after losing this battle, and decades if he doesn't.
It would be incredibly self-defeating to continue to insist on it even though we know that a public option is the right thing to do.
2nd terms are where big things get done because the president doesn't have to get re-elected and doesn't have to play the polls as much.
The statement should be These democrats like Emanuel , Baucus , blue dogs are not essential..
..
If we do not vote these republicans - democrat a.. h...s and destroyers of our country ,, out of office when their reelection is due...... We are sorry ... democrats and need to join the republican party also..
In fact after they destroy the democratic party they will probably run on "their" own republican ticket,, because they have already done their damage..
without him first accomplishing a number of things. One of those is healthcare reform. And for you to say the public supports reform but not a "public option' that's because sooooooo many people favor a SINGLE PAYER system over the lame "public option". Anything less then SINGLE PAYER or a STRONG public option is NO reform!!!
the other thing he MUST accomplish if he hopes to be re-elected is to put the criminals of the Bush mal-administration behind bars. THAT is an imperative!
As much as Americans and peoples of all nations would dearly love to see that happen, we'd have to get by Speaker Pelosi first.
And here's the TRUTH about Mitt Romney's Massachusetts Health Plan:
www.masshealthlawtruth.org
People in this state are up in arms over what's happening with it. I found out about so many shady parts of the plan today. Especially regarding how they "penalize" residents for not signing up. And according to what we were told today, "Obamacare" has taken the Mass. Care playbook and is trying to nationalize it.
Let's just say that what ever ends up getting passed, once it goes into effect in 2013 and the "fines" start kicking in....there are going to be a whole lot of pissed off Americans from BOTH parties.
It's going to be a Republican in 2012 anyway. Between the monied interests, who are lying to keep things the way they are; the media, which presents "the story" in a manner favorable to corporations; the sheer ignorance in this country, which prevents people from fighting for what's in their best interests and leaves them malleable to lies; and timid Democratic "leadership," which overwhelmingly wins an election but then operates in retreat mode and dances to the tune called by their opposition and big money rather than the millions of small donors who cast their votes for something different...well, Obama's a one-termer.
Why should I donate to or work for him again? I'm actually one of the people who will accept some compromise--but not the Republican position on every goddamned issue under the sun. Why would I vote again for someone who doesn't agree with my positions on anything? This is why I didn't vote for Clinton a second time.
Fuck the Democratic party, their fund-raisers, their "get-involved-for-change" slogans, their "meet-ups," the door-knocking, the phone-banking. All of it. I'll work in my own community for at the grassiest of grass-roots levels for people around me, but this country is sold.
Why, so he can do nothing for us for another four years? That's foolish.
No more votes, money or support for Obama if there is no public option in health care. Enough is enough. More WAR, bailouts for Wall Street Thieves, letting the Bush criminals off, no, I didn't vote for this crap. No more support. The illusion is over.
"Na-ne-na-ne-na-ne....the statute of limitations has run out for you to prosecute me!!!!!" Then he and his hot shot attorneys stick their tongues out at all of us like five year olds.
Good job Obama!!!
Typical lawyer games....delay...delay....delay. Run out the clock. Home free!!!! $$$$
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
There is no Statute of Limitations on war crimes. They cannot "run out the clock" on the kidnaping and torture of Bush/Cheney victims.
..Cheney's Sony batteries might well explode in his chest in the meantime, which isn't legal justice at all.
That would merely be poetic justice..
Tell them to do the work they were elected to do and GET THE VOTES FOR THE PUBLIC OPTION..Or they will be feeling the screen door hit them in the backside in 2010..Do not relent..
Conrad needs to be removed but call him 1.800.224.7776 remind him it his job to get the votes--his co-op plan takes millions of dollars, thousands of people, thousands of hours and many years to bring up...This only works for rural electric co..But remember he, conrad, has taken $2.4 million from healthcare lobbyists over the past 2 years.
I have a standing email to the Whitehouse to veto ANY bill that has no public option..it goes to the committee heads and my reps too! Call their local offices!
the job the Clintons did in '93, he can stick a "2nd Obama term" where the sun doesn't shine as far as I'm concerned. I won't vote for a fricking wimp who couldn't do a single. Not one single thing. That he promised on his campaign trail without compromising and bipartisaning away everything to the moustachio-twirling bad guys who pop another bottle of Dom Perignon every time he craps on another progressive initiative. Screw him and screw all the Democrats. To death.
C'mon, tell me you're a Republican troll....or are you really so gullible?
He certainly is not forfilling his campaign promises made to get elected he made to us..
There must have been another set of promises he made to the Global Empire which he is fulfilling..
I also see no transparent government but if fact is has become more closed to the public.. And the only CHANGE I see is the names of the republicans in the White House , because there still are no democrats in it..
Wonder if the Supreme Judge Obama just picked will be a center right pick..
Obama's campaign promises... Do yu believe any of these have been fulfilled!!!
No. 1: Increase the capital gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers (*)
Increase capital gains and dividends taxes from 15 to 20 percent for those making more than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000
No. 2: Eliminate all oil and gas tax loopholes (*)
"Eliminating special tax breaks for oil and gas companies: including repealing special expensing rules, foreign tax credit benefits, and manufacturing deductions for oil and gas firms."
No. 3: Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses and start-ups (***)(not as much as said)
"Barack Obama understands that small businesses are the engines of our economy, and he will eliminate all capital gains taxes on investments in small and start-up firms."
No. 4: Extend child tax credits and marriage-penalty fixes (*)
Will extend aspects of the Bush tax cuts such as child credit expansions and changes to marriage bonuses and penalties.
No. 5: Expand the earned income tax credit (***) (Did not include workers without children)
Expand the earned income tax credit for workers without children and taxpayers with more than three children. Equalize thresholds for married filers and head of household filers.
No. 6: Create an Advanced Manufacturing Fund to invest in peer-reviewed manufacturing processes
Will create an Advanced Manufacturing Fund to identify and invest in the most compelling advanced manufacturing strategies. The Fund will have a peer-review selection and award process based on the Michigan 21st Century Jobs Fund, a state-level initiative that has awarded over $125 million to Michigan businesses with the most innovative proposals to create new products and new jobs in the state."
No. 7: Double funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership, a program that encourages manufacturing efficiency
"The Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) works with manufacturers across the country to improve efficiency, implement new technology and strengthen company growth. This highly-successful program has engaged in more than 350,000 projects across the country and in 2006 alone, helped create and protect over 50,000 jobs. But despite this success, funding for MEP has been slashed by the Bush administration. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will double funding for the MEP so its training centers can continue to bolster the competitiveness of U.S. manufacturers."
No. 8: Include environmental and labor standards in trade agreements
"He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world"
No. 9: Oppose agreements like CAFTA (the Central American Free Trade Agreement) unless it has environmental and labor protections
"He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world and stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) that fail to live up to those important benchmarks."
No. 10: Expand the child and dependent care credit
Expand and make refundable the child and dependent care credit
No. 11: Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax
Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax.
No. 12: Create an international tax haven watch list
Create an international tax haven watch list of countries that do not share information returns with the United States.
No. 14: Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay
Congress has set rules regarding the tax deductibility of the salaries of CEOs, but forms of non-salary compensation have become popular. Obama would look at revamping definitions of compensation
No. 15: Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners ( ** Kept)
Create a $10 billion fund to help homeowners refinance or sell their homes. "The Fund will not help speculators, people who bought vacation homes or people who falsely represented their incomes."
No. 16: Increase minority access to capital
"Strengthen Small Business Administration programs that provide capital to minority-owned businesses, support outreach programs that help minority business owners apply for loans, and work to encourage the growth and capacity of minority firms."
No. 17: Require economic justification for tax cuts
Adopt the economic substance doctrine, a policy that states that tax cuts must have significant economic justification, as a federal law.
No. 18: Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form
Will direct the Internal Revenue Service to "give taxpayers the option of a pre-filled tax form to verify, sign and return to the IRS or online. This will eliminate the need for Americans to hire expensive tax preparers and to gather information that the federal government already has on file."
No. 19: Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers
Create a refundable tax credit equal to 10 percent of mortgage interest for nonitemizers, up to a maximum credit of $800.
No. 20: Make permanent the Research & Development tax credit (*)
The Research & Development tax credit and the renewable energy production tax credit are intended to spur innovation in the private sector, but the tax credits have expiration dates under current law. Obama would make them permanent
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promi...
"Why the hell hasn't Obama shown some strong leadership on this issue?" - klyde
Because he is a politician. And politicians play this game where they use the grassroots to get elected (Ohio and Pennsylvania), sell them a bill of goods "meaningful health care reform...change we can believe in" etc., etc., then once Inauguration Day is over they invite key health insurance corporations and big pharma leaders to The White House for cocktail hour soirees and announce that "Medicare for All/Single-Payer" will not even be allowed past the gate let alone be "on the table":
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/15-0
In other words, Obama is leading the corporations and screwing the taxpaying public who got him elected.
Obama really broke my heart.
seeing that Obama did not really mean to keep his campaign promises once he pick Emanuel which has recruited , funded and supported republicans to run and be elected on the democrat ticket..
Remember Obama & Emanuel not only stated that they were to ignore the left and move to the center right , but have pick republicans to change their policies to the republican agenda...
Obama , Emanuel , Blue Dogs , Centrists and democrat leaders are the best thing that has happen FOR the republican party and their corporate policies..
The elected officials have become corporate own and gone too far from the feeling and wishes of the middle class , Seniors and unemployed Americans..
How much s... do they have to make you eat ,,, before you realize they are not doing anything for US , our economy , democracy , constitution or bill of rights. Have we become just as the republican sheep voters which will vote and support the republicans no matter how much they dump on them and our country..
Rahm bad mouthed the public option and called progressive activists "f---in' stupid". Obviously, he has the president's ear right now.
Hopefully that is the wake up call to seeing the whole system for what it is.
On aside, the BBC had a quick look at things, seeing as the NHS was being slandered by the usual mobsters :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8201711.stm
too.
Leave it to the Dems to shoot themselves in the foot. Come 2010, we're going to get a GOP house again, and a redux of the Clinton years.
Joy!
In the words of Dick Cheney: they can all go f*ck themselves.
If it isn't obvious to everyone by now that they've all been bought and paid for, then I'm not sure what it will take. I'm quite sure it won't be "essential" for some of us to ever vote the democratic ticket again! Wow.....can they get anymore transparent in their outright loving support of the insurance companies?
election cycle.
Both parties have got the whole "carrot" on the stick down to a science. The GOP wips their base with the perennial "teh gays are coming, teh gays are coming" (you can substitute "gays" with socialists/terrorists/atheists, etc to fit their fear mongering d'jour)
... and the Dems with the perennial "we need X to happen the next election, so that we can pass Y then." I mean, Obama is only on tape 5 years ago saying how he needed "both houses to be Dem" in order to pass a strong public health care reform. Now that they have that, the Dems have all sorts of wonderful (and creative I may add) excuses...
They can go pound sand for all I care. If they want their precious corporations to continue dictating policy, they should at least have the decency of having the same corporations carry the blunt of the fiscal burden. I am tired of being taxed sans representation. I would not mind the "without representation" part if at least I didn't not have to pay for the "privilege" of being non-represented.
only the most ignorant did realize Obama was a corporate candidate, but what people here are expressing is that we actually believed we were getting a leader who was on our side (somewhat anyway) and now we realize that we will never have a future with either the Repugs or the Dems in office. - We need to knock our government down and build a new one.
The Americans who voted for change in the face. This is not over yet, but if the public plan is deep sixed I will never vote vor a Democrat again. I will probably regtister green and vot a straight ticket.
I am tired of voting for Democrats who promise change and then upon taking their oath of office, take their hand off the bible and grab their dick and piss on the people who elected them.
They promise to stop the painful ass fucking once elected they tell you they're sorry they can't stop the fucking but what they can do is sell you an overpriced tube of crisco and a bullet to bite on.
I want to believe Obama but his actions don't match his promises.
He caved on FISA. He did not remove the faith based office in the whitehouse. He had no interest in upholding the Constitution by making the former administration accountable. He had done nothing to repeal DOMA or Don't ask don't tell.
And the final reason that I think Obama is a crook is that we are still engaged in two wars and HALABURTON, KBR, BLACKWATER, XE ARE STILL RECEIVING NO BID CONTRACTS.
I keep voting for candidates who promise to treat me like a CITIZEN, but once they are elected they treat me like a CONSUMER.
.
I want to know why Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius thinks Americans don't deserve affordable health care options?
.
Yes, always give in to the drooling, crazy, hateful far-right without getting anything in return after they call you Fascists and accuse you of killing grandma. After all, they won't vote for your bill anyway, so give Rush and Beck everything they want!
Makes sense to the DC Village insiders I suppose. And the mainstream media that always reduces every controversy to he said, she said' equivalence.
Now, will the sheeple that elected Obama (myself included) still support, and vote for, this party of liars, cowards and shills again.
I WILL NOT. Never again. If they back down from a public option, which is in itself too much of a compromise, then they DO NOT deserve our support ever again. Look at the back stabbing this administration has done: Wall Street Thieves in charge of Wall Street Thieves, More WAR, same BUSH Justice Dept Outrages and Gitmo, Medal of Freedom for S. D. O'Connor, one of the corrupt and partisan clowns who overthrew Democracy eight years ago. Where's the change? (Forget the HOPE).
most of us will because the alternative is Palin, Huckabee and Bobby Jindal; a group of Christianist maniacs who take their marching orders from the drug addled gas bag sex tourist. That is a nightmare to horrible to think about for most us so we will crawl back to the right/center quisling Dems.
I guess for me the only consolation is that Palin did not get elected. I feel like at the very least World War III was averted.
I hear the Naderesque criticisms that both parties are corporate owned, and I believe this is true to some extent, but I still believe the Democrats are better on average than the Republicans. Still, this is very disheartening that the public option is getting killed.
The only thing I can think of is it's time to start supporting progressive democrats in primaries, right this very second, to prepare for 2010.
..then you could ever have been with Hillary, or McCain/Palin.
Really, Dennis Kucinich was your only real progressive choice, but it's completely understandible to me why he couldn't be a viable candidate under the present corporate circumstances in yours and so many other countries come election time.
Just another sign that the stupid rule America. No matter who we elect or what the majority of Americans want, it seems we will always bow down to the ignorant loud minority known as the republicans.
So much for Hope.
In 2000, I voted for Nader. In 2004, I voted for Kerry. In 2008, I voted for Brian Moore, the Socialist Party candidate.
I was going to vote for Obama in 2012 IF he stood up to the insurance companies and did the right thing--i.e., a strong public health insurance option.
With solid majorities in Congress, this capitulation is inexcusable.
I'm done. The Democratic Party has sold its soul. Only left third parties for me from now on.
We need to outlaw Repugs and Dems from ever holding office again. They do not support the people which means they do not uphold the constitution and they spit on the bill of rights. The only way forward is to burn down* what is behind us.
* metaphorically that is
I have been done with the Democrats since NAFTA.
I am a socialist without a Party.
I am keen on Marx, the things he saw about the evils of Capitalism are still with us.
But we have new realities. Peak energy and peak ecology.
I don't know who will lead us away from the Catastrophes the Republicrats are leading us into.
Nader is growing old.
We are running out of time on this earth.
If you could run as an Independent next year for Congress, would you? Sadly you wouldn't be able to mention the "S" or "C" word.
We need people like you in Congress.
I am flattered that you would even imagine that I might be material for Congress but I am not.
In politics one must be very careful and extremely skillful in telling the truth. Just knowing the truth is not nearly enough.
Or, as with most, a skilled rogue.
And even with a heart of gold, it is not enough. Ask Cindy Sheehan.
Having unassailable integrity, like Cindy, is not enough. That condition, clearly, is not something the overwhelming majority of our legislators need ever worry about.
When Nader went after GM in the '60s, they tried to destroy him. He was a saint and they lost.
Nader has continued as a saint to this day. If they could find a speck of dirt, they would blow it up to look the size of Mount Everest. They can't do it.
If you are going to jump into the shark tank, to be effective and survive, you must be very strong and skillful. And start early.
Nader could never be the politician required to win with the lower information folks.
As for me, sooner but not very much later I would pledge that the plague of greed has destroyed the earth and the only solution left for the survivors is that they all must be commies.
We will either have a community of life, or we will have Neo Feudalism… and death.
I am not optimistic.
I have voted for Nader every time he ran. What's the fucking mystery here? Every damn politician is a corporate flunky. Ya'll really fell for that change and hope shit.
Quit being the spineless freakin' weasels we all know you to be, forget this perverted fantasy of "bi-partisanship," and just pass some meaningful goddamned healthcare legislation right now - you know, like your asshole counterparts did with the Bush tax cuts back in 2001.
That's how politics works, you colossal collection of incredible dipshits: you won the last two election cycles and control a large majority in Congress and can do virtually whatever the hell you want to do - so why are you acting like a bunch of freakin' vaginas who want to put on a bake sale with your opponents in the Republican Party? You have power, morons - freakin' act like it.
The alternative is to go down as the biggest bunch of losers in the history of the United States congress. Oh, never mind: you're Democrats - that's what you want. Freakin' losers.
Change we can......uh, wait.....not that kind of change......ok.....Change we can believe..........oh, wait....not that kind of change either..........how about NO CHANGE AT ALL......just keep doing the same things as the last one's in office , or maybe make it even worse.........is that possible?
Ok......now we have it.....:(
from one corporate shill to another.
Thus all the backslapping and "high fives" between Bush/Obama and Biden/Cheney on Inauguration Day.
No threats of serious prosecutions into their war crimes etc.
Just passin' the ol' baton.
Business as usual. Keep raping the people of their money (taxes) and make sure the corporate masters get their pound of flesh and we get nothing.
Like I keep saying: We have already paid for a national Medicare for All health care system. We're just not getting it. Because they are passing the funding on to the Military Industrial Complex.
W.C. was right. "Never give a sucker an even break".
The Democrats and Republicans are laughing at us.
The only thing left to do is to wait for the census and a reapportionment with the Congressional Districts and RUN AGAINST THESE JERKS AS INDEPENDENTS!!!!!
They need to think they may lose their jobs.
Hey! That's one way to get great health care coverage and a super pension in this country! Win elective office!!!
Hillary was right. Unless you're willing to come out of the gate swinging a Louisville slugger, the forces against this will nibble away at it until there is nothing left.
Hmmm. I wonder how many of the "blue dog" Democrats in Congress that helped kill this critical aspect of true healthcare reform (if it is killed) were also Democratic Superdelegates that handed Obama the presidential nomination despite his winning fewer primary votes than Clinton (along with losing the major demographics and the battleground states to her) on the assumption that his starry eyed youth and inexperience in the real world of hardball national politics would make him a much easier roll-over than Clinton?
Looks like they were right about him and played their hand very, very well indeed.
I'm trying to find something positive in this.
The only thing that I can hope for. And I use the word HOPE expressly here. For this so called co op non profit org, can somehow force the insurance companies to make ins more affordable.
But, what about the folks who cant afford it in the first place?
This so called non profit org has to take in $ for it to be able to function. The poor simply won't be able to pay into it.
So, this is a sham. The insurance companies have won. I guess the death threats got to him. Because, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have done it.
.....CK!!!!!!! Spineless, worthless, incompetent, paint-sniffing MORONS!!!
I thought when Bush & Co. were gone, my urges to abandon this country would go with them. But seeing how "effective" the Democrats are when they control the House, the Senate, AND the White House, and have 3/4 of America supporting their every cause... I'm done with this country. Dumbass Americans deserve the third-world hell-hole they're turning this nation into. Stupid...
"I thought when Bush & Co. were gone, my urges to abandon this country would go with them."
Same here. It was almost nice to enjoy those 3 or 4 months when we thought we wouldn't have to flee a country gone to anarchy though wasn't it.
God, I'm not sure which sickens me more. The right wing nuts spinning lies or the damned lily livered Dems that are TOO WEAK TO GET ANY DAMN THING DONE. YOU IDIOTS. WE GAVE YOU THE MAJORITY. USE IT DAMN IT. THE CONS WOULD!!!!
I'm so sick of the crats..... maybe they should go the way of the Republicans and we should just start over. Obama, who I loved, is proving to be such a chicken-shit. WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM. HE HAS A MANDATE. Well, I guess he wants to be a one-termer and the way he's performing that will be best. Hell, maybe he should do like Palin and resign.
Non-essential my fat behind! How about we take away *all* of Sebelius' access to health care and let her see how "non-essential" her need for health care is! Fuck you Sebelius!
I guess I should write a letter, obviously not using the foul language I am here, but same spirit...
Nothing will change as long as the Health Insurance companies are in business. Everyone should just cancel their insurance, that would get their attention.
Obama looks very weak and an ineffectual leader with this health care debacle (and it's a debacle), and he has one of the biggest majorities in recent history. There's no way to spin that Obama is a much weaker president now.
Krugman was right on Obama's foolish, moronic insistence on "bipartisanship". The GOP screwed him (again), like they did on the stimulus.
Grassley, especially, is laughing his ass off at the President right now. I hope Obama likes it, because this is only going to make the GOP even angrier at him, and the attacks will not stop. He's going to have to get used to being humilated by a regional party with a mere 40 votes in the Senate. Obama seems to enjoy being made to look like a jackass.
He spent his political capital on this. And for what? To appease the GOPers. This only emboldens them to go for more. And be even more aggressive. Now I know how a speed bump feels. Just waiting for the trolls to show up and start in on us. I can see it already.
in all this brouhaha is a sec. of Health and Human Services without any experience in health care and/or interest in the common good of the citizens she is supposed to represent.
for Kathleen Sebelius and other rich people. On the other hand SINGLE PAYER IS essential for tens of millions of Americans as well as for the American economy. But if Selelius doesn't give a shit if every nation on the planet surges ahead of the US in economic recovery and security then why should I give a shit.
You called it a 'robust' Public Option…
You called it a 'solid' Public Option…
You could have called it anything you pleased.
You should have called it never there in the first place.
This is a deal done behind closed doors, out of the view of any cameras.
The Corporations write the laws, the Public is not invited.
We have a Corporate State,
if you thought otherwise you were a sucker.
But, but that's fascism. Say it ain't true.
Of course it is fascism.
Why would I say it is not true when it is.
do I have to add (snark) to everytime I mock the system? I thought you knew me better.
Sorry, I have become very literal in my old age.
Damn. Sucker punched. Again. Been busting my hump organizing for...whatever it is, as there's no legislation yet to vote on. But now? Might as well have been fighting for what I believe in--single payer--rather than the load of shit we'll get.
HIT THESE SONS A BITCHES WITH EVERYTHING WE'VE GOT!!!!!
SINGLE PAYER OR DEATH!!!!!!
Hey in my case that's actually quite literal.
Vote Single Payer Congress or Retire!!!!
MEDICARE FOR ALL!!! Or take away that "socialist" program. One or the other assholes, you can't have it both ways!!!
If there's no public option then every one of us should do our best to defeat this bill.
100% agree with this statement. C&L show us who to hassle.
Single Payer OR a STRONG public option OR KILL THIS THING!!!!
I will be 100% behind killing this thing without a public option. It's our only chance.
Shitty is the enemy of the good.
"Recently, Secretary Sebelius stated that the public option in health care reform is not "essential."
Shame on her. If it is so unnecesary, Madam Secretary, how about you forgo all access to medical care coverage the way millions of Americans are suffering at this time.
I am 28 years old, and am looking after my 62 year old mother who has had some worrisome health concerns, fainting and dizziness, prone to falls, etc. and she will not go to a doctor because she has absolutely no coverage. After one fall, I found her on the bathroom floor white as a ghost, and she refused to let me call an ambulance because it was too expensive. I am still struggling to get her to a doctor.
A public option is her ONE chance to get health insurance, at least until she can get Medicare.
As I said, I am 28 years old, but due to prolonged psychiatric disability, I am recieving Medicare and Medicaid. They are lifesavers for me. Without that coverage I would be dead. I am grateful to a government that would make that available to me, but I also would like to see my government make that available *to everyone* my mother included, because it is a crime against humanity that people in this country are suffering and dying because of the greed and ignorance shown by the upper eschalons of society. Sadly Madam Secretary, you are among those who are causing the less fortunate to suffer because of your blindness.
Please reconsider such a stupid and thoughtless position.
Sincerely,
Annaleigh _____ "
I too literally can't afford to go to a doctor.
angry!
it'd make you even angrier. I work on a dairy farm. Stupid choice on my part really but that shouldn't matter as far as health is concerned.
I'm 49 and it is unlikely I'll be able to work until 62. So because of no healthcare I'll probbaly go onto SS Disablity if I make it long enough.
I'll probbaly go onto SS Disablity if I make it long enough
And if it's still there by then.
their bodies literally give out. :( So sorry. This is the situation with my mom...she's in property management, but her arthritis and dizziness are making it very hard. But she insists on working as long as she still can... It's a terrible situation.
Wait until you sign up for the biggest ripoff, Medicare Advantage and you find out there are no doctors that will contract with the insurer.
:S
Take your mom to the emergency room. Tell them your broke, and that your mom is too. They can't deny her medical care. You may not get everything you need. But she will be seen, and you will have laid the ground work for medicare part D. That's the one you want. You pretty much have to be poor or destitute for that one. No assets, only less than 2000 in the bank. Take her to the ER.
If you have anything of value, with the exception of a house, get it out of your name. Just do it. Health is more important.
If our govt' is not going to help. Do what you must. You already paid for it.
about the cost of an ambulance, but I can put the numbers of several relatives and friends of the family on speed dial for a ride, and thankfully the ER is three blocks from home. I'll have to do this.
If these f*cks won't do what we elected them to do, start hitting back where they know we're already overloaded.
(With apologies to those here in medical professions...)
the words of the GOP.
Oh...is it going to be like cable company choice and competition...another GOP free market giveaway to their friends.
FUCK both parties.
"It's clear to me now, that the republic no longer functions."
I campaigned for Obama and Democrats and my Election and re-election of my States Democrats. The House leadership campaigned for a majority we all delivered, that majority, we didn't compromise to get it, we voted for what they promised.
here's my position, Both Houses of Congress, are the People’s Houses and the power in those Houses is our power, so when Nancy took our power off the People’s table, we were at a disadvantage after making that capitulation, we never got out of SINGLE PAYER what we all deserved and to move forward with those advantages, so we got dumbed down to a Strong Public Option and today, we've been watered down and weakened to dropping the Strong Public Option, in favor of Co-ops and how was it done, by compromise.
Ok, here's the answer, write and tell the President and your elected Representatives, two can play the compromise game, you Vote for a Strong Public Option and I'll support you further, yes that's a one issue stand, well, they have been one issuing us down to where we are today, by compromising, so either pass the TSPO, or lose my support. Now grow a pair and pass the Strong Public Option. See there we both can play this compromise game. Want my further support, then you do what you promised and campaigned to do, with Democratic Party People delivered Majority and Pass the key Legislation, which was the Platform, I elected all of you to do.
who said about SINGLE PAYER - "I made a mistake not including it in discussions.... but it's too late now."
Despite 'discussions' being still ongoing.....
Oh Magoo....you've done it again.
but my assumption is that most here have hammering with phone calls and emails for weeks if not months their and other's representatives with ultimatums about future support.
Need to find another flag to rally around, cause it doesn't look like the dem. party one is worthy.
It's only fair. Fucking money makes the world go wrong. We're moving.
They're both sucking on each others dick right now!
And the public can't even get a reacharound.
doesn't erase the truth.
Soon we will have little C&L pieces to calm us down telling us to be happy with what we were able to get.
Continuation and expansion of the status quo bullshit, no matter how pretty the wrapper looks, isn't change. It's still shit and it still stinks.
It IS essential - if Obama or any Democrat for that matter, ever wants another vote from me again.
Democrat or Republican.
If you're unhappy...feel free to vote your party if you must...but vote against EVERY incumbent in your primary.
It's all these corporate cocksuckers understand.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08
and not take it any more. I'm tired of progressives being expendible to support a failed status quo. This isn't incremental progress, it's political cowardice.
If someone starts a credible third party, then I'll consider it. And bully to the Sheet Metal Workers union who suspended any political contributions to any Congressional or Presidential candidates.
Good.
Since money is tight these days, I never have to feel guilty never giving another dime to the Democratic Party. They can go f*** themselves. If this isn't one of the single most important issues that they should have done right, then I don't know what is. I just don't give a damn about them anymore.
I have better things to spend my money on.
In other words, what the people want or need doesn't matter worth a damn. What does matter, is the APPEARANCE of having done something, without pissing off the Corporate masters who write the campaign contribution checks. When Ralph Nader said there was no difference between Democrats and Republicans, this is exactly what he was talking about. The President's Party holds a majority in the House and Senate, he enjoys at least 75% of the public's support on this issue, and they're still going to sell us out, then come around each election cycle to bullshit us about what a great job they've done. I knew the fix was in when Nancy Pelosi said right here on this very board that the public option, if enacted, wouldn't kick in until 2013. It became clear at that precise moment that the whole "healthcare debate" was just another game of political 3 Card Monte.
I can hardly wait for the Dems to announce changes to Social Security.
WHOOOPEEEEE!
Don't give them ideas!
They'll do it just to appease the Republicans!
those discussions are already underway.
Count on it.
When Obama stood on stage and spoke of his "good friend" Chuck Grassley the same day Grassley was talking about killing grandma, I knew we were fucked. How can O be so damn gulible?
I posted this 2 days ago. Seems to be the case now.
I missed that one.
Obama really called Grassley his "good friend"?
Man, Obama's an even bigger idiot than I thought.
He said that?
Politicians do not need to be fucking FRIENDS! Why can't they just be colleagues? Especially your political enemies!
I hate this bipartisan B.S.!!!
... but rather that we are.
We are all headed to the brink, I wonder what will we do about that?
NOTHING.
to build a makeshift wall, made of with pallets of US currency and Chinese drywall, right on the "brink"...
True, but we never beleived that the Republicans would work with us. I think Obama really thought that he could make them come around with that bi-partisan BS he spoke of. That only works if both sides agree to it. He's found out differently and now want to change shit just to be bi-partisan.
And that's not what I signed on for.
it's the Blue Dogs. There just isn't enough public support overall and next to none in conservative states/districts.
Right. Blue Dog = DINO
The PUBLIC support IS there! And the media and the corporate politicians are doing all they can to hide that fact!
Live Free AND DIE, Citizens.
as a massachusetts resident who owns a soon to be wildly successful small business but not just yet there, and who had the distinct "un"pleasure of living through romney's stepping stone turn as gov, i can tell you what romney did: he made the income amount for the state subsidized health insurance so low that you only qualify if you barely work, or don't work at all. if you make too much money but can't be covered by a spouse's work insurance or don't have insurance through an employer, you either ante up 250 a month for the pleasure of what is basically catastrophic insurance, or you pay up to 900 a month for a decent plan...if you are single. i happen to not be able to afford a plan at just this moment while i continue to grow my business. a simple cost-benefit analysis of the lowest cost plan offered by the state for me revealed that i may as well just burn the cash for the health "care" it would avail me, so i have no insurance. i will have the pleasure of paying a penalty (tax) at the end of the year.
i have a direct quote from one of the organizations who was at the table and crafted this alleged miracle of health care: "oh, we knew when we put the plan together that there would be people like you." my response was "and?" i was then told that "she" was so sorry, but that there was nothing planned for the "people like me." you know, those of us who manage to make more than minimum wage, but hardly enough to afford a decent, cost-effective health care insurance plan in this state. that's romney's plan...he doesn't give a shit about anyone with a fortune smaller than his, and left this state with a health "miracle" that will collapse under its own weight soon...when the state figures out we can't fund it, no matter how many taxes i pay...the taxes that pay for others to see a doctor...while i can't afford to see that same doctor.
i would rather wait a few weeks to see a doctor in a single-payer nation than not go at ALL because I can't afford it. if i am already paying high taxes for other people to see a doc, i damned well want to see the same doc.
why is it that the only folk who have benefited from this are the insurance companies? no surprise there. have i mentioned i hate that corporate f*cker romney?
Check out this website on the Mass Plan:
www.masshealthlawtruth.org
"If you don't fight hard enough for the things you believe in, at some point you have to realize that you don't really believe in them."
No kidding.
I will not support a bill with no public option. How about that one Ms. Sebelius? And for all of the edited comments you could at least spell her name correctly there Mr./Ms. editor. Sibelius was a master composer and artistic visionary (and an alcoholic), Sebelius is what Liberal and Proud called Nancy Pelosi and Bitch McCornhole earlier.
all current govt. employees except the military. If Joe American doesn't deserve it, rich ass good for nothing Senators certainly don't.
Also, this pretty much guarantees I won't be voting Democrat again anytime soon. I'll sit home next election day. Let's see how well Webb and all the 'yellow dogs' do in the south without liberal support.
because I sure will not. I WILL go to the voting booth, but I will WRITE-IN the liberal progressive candidate of my choice, no matter who the "Main Stream" Corporatist political parties have "selected" for US. The write-in may be Kucinich, McKinney, or some other socialist democratic rising star.
I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of the Corporatist Government. F**k our government by, for, and of the corporations. 2010 is THE year of change that I can believe in. (Obama, you have 15 months to make those changes you promised, otherwise, you will be a one-term President with a suck-ass legacy.)
TOO EARLY...that is what American healthcare is.
Keep her alive long enough to suck out every last dime. When the money runs out...oh...sucks to be you, granny.
THAT is American healthchare today.
> THAT is American healthchare today.
You've had "Living the dream" so is this :
"Dying from the lie" ?
Tis what happens when a system is built on self consuming greed I suppose, people get consumed.
can we bring Sen. Pelosi on again to snow us and not give any answers.
PLEEEEEASE.
is senator Pelosi?
Speaker Pelosi.
but check back later when she needs your vote!
; - )
If Obama caves I won't vote for him. I'm sick and fuckin tired of all this political bull shit.
He's screwed this up from the get go with all his "compromise" and "bipartisan" "strategy". No new bill with all the opposition that goes with it was needed. Change the existing Medicare to everyone is all that needed to be done. And I won't even start on his behind closed door agreements with the drug companies.
The Repugs in a 60/40 minority STILL kicked the Democrats ass... again.
" The current system is going to bankrupt the nation?"
It's a play on words. The nation means the corporations...and they're simply not making enough money.
The people are just pockets to empty. They're not allowed to go bankrupt...read the bankruptcy laws.
Second term not essential.
Can you please please please finally finally finally come to the realization that there is no difference between the Dems and Repubs? That it wouldn't have mattered 1 iota if Gore had won ? Do you finally now get it? The only difference is cosmetic, to give you the illusion that we live in a "Democracy" and that you have a "choice" The only difference is that the Dems use Vasoline, in the form of better psuedo populist propaganda so it seems like it doesn't hurt as much. It won't change until real populists like Nader or Kucinich are elected.
Tony Soprano: So that's it. No leeway, no compromise, just stupid fuckin' jokes.
Phil Leotardo: You want compromise, how's this? Twenty years in the can I wanted manicott', but I compromised. I ate grilled cheese off the radiator instead. I wanted to fuck a woman, but I compromised. I jacked off into a tissue. You see where I'm goin'?
Is Rush Limbaugh's drug habit covered?
Use somebody else's Viagra when having gawd only knows what kind of sex in the Dominican Republic.
Sebelius quits to become an Insurance Industry lobbyist in 5...4....3...2....
...they all go from corporation to think tank to govt to lobbyist to think tank to corporation to CFR and back into govt...in a never ending cycle.
all prostitutes look forward to the day they can be johns.
why should the public subsidize that obese bastard putting on 40 pounds every year?
We ought to show them what a real grassroots movement looks like and move onto the Washington Mall and raise hell until they vote for universal health care. Democratic betrayers should be hounded out of office.
...you'll get co-opted by the teabaggers...and just add to their power...
besides congress has so many people mad at them right now they arent paying attention to who's actually protesting.
I would just stay home. you'll probly just get labeled as a racist like all the teabaggers do anyway...
By George you've got it.
I remember when, at a speech to 200,000 anti nuclear activists in Washington, Helen Coldicott said "Lets go right now and sit in in the White House. Lets change diapers on that desk in the Oval Office. I was ready to go but it turned out she didn't mean it.
Nuclear annihilation was an idea that some people feared and took action against, but lack of access to health care is affecting millions every day.
The media give no attention to people suffering for a lack of health care, but they give the right-wingers who are determined to incite their followers to assassination get validation every day on NBC and NPR.
Without a public option this is meaningless. In fact worse than meaningless, because what will most likely happen is everyone will be legally obligated to buy health insurance. The insurance companies will make billions, and just like with auto insurance they will sell crap policies that allow people to be within the letter of the law.
So people who cannot currently afford insurance will be forced to buy horrible policies that will hurt them financially, will be completly inadaquate coverage should they actually need it, and the insurance companies who have created this mess will be richer than they already are.
You are spot-on the money.
The RethugliKKKlans gave us Medicare Part D -- some compromise. Obscene profits for Big Pharma, and still, Still many patients that cannot afford their medications. We The People are scheduled for a new operation, this time by the DINO Corporatist Democrats, to separate our collective wallets from our pockets, by the entrenched Medical-Insurance-Complex, to ensure their continued profitability in a still-declining economy. Face it, this is Their version of a TARP Bailout ...
Change? Well, yes. But to believe in? Not So Much!
That will be levied against ALL Americans who cannot afford the insurance...or who REFUSE to pay into a "for-profit" corporation.
I find it absolutely astounding that Obama and the Democratic Congress would DEMAND that the American taxpayers pay a FINE if we choose NOT to purchase a private, corporate insurance company program that we find to be substandard to our needs.
This is the most disgusting aspect of "Obamacare".
They will FORCE us to buy insurance from corporations we LOATHE and if we do NOT they will issue a PENALTY against us that will be TAKEN FROM US VIA OUR INCOME TAX RETURNS!
OR THEY'LL MAKE US PAY WITH A PAYMENT PLAN WITH INTEREST AND WE STILL WON'T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!!
Rotten scumbags....all.
OR a Corporatist propagandist.
Can 50 state Co-Ops (or even 7 Regional Co-Ops) effectively compete with the current Medical-Insurance-Complex? NO!
If Co-Ops cannot effectively compete with the current M-I-C, can they help hold down health care costs?
NO! Health care Co-Ops are virtually nonexistent, and the few out there have absolutely no track record for effective control of health care costs, let alone to provide competition to the current industry leaders. Co-ops are really the health care industry's answer to what to do with that portion of the entire possible patient that the industry already does not choose to insure. The Co-Ops will be the health care provider of last resort, will never be competitive, and will be reliant upon an ever-increasing Government infusion of funds. Effectively, not only non-competitive, but designed to fail.
If there is no provision for a "Public Option" that competes effectively with the M-I-C, can they be be coerced through new regulations to accept patients that have pre-existing conditions? NO! NOT if they are, in fact, the ones actually authoring the (New & Improved (TM)) Health Insurance Reform legislation.
In point of fact, any time that the political Corporatists and their Corporate masters are involved in legislation, the end result is a further monopolizing of their particular special interests, as well as a massive raid upon the Treasury.
The only viable long term solution to out-of-control health care costs, and the ever-increasing pool of uninsured and uninsurable patients is a Single Payer Public Option. The only viable existing competition is Medicare, with a proven track record of helping to hold down costs. And the only way that Medicare can compete with the current Medical-Insurance-Complex is for subscription being Open -- that means, potentially, Universal Health Care. Not only is the Public Option essential, but so is Single Payer.
Face it, the American people are being "played" by our politicians, for the sole benefit of, by, and for the Corporations.
People, please ... accept nothing less than HR-676 -- the ONLY fiscally viable solution.
Excuse me, please. I am feeling a bit sick right now, and with no barf-bag handy ...
Just to clarify, the 'Public Option' and single payer are mutually exclusive in that the latter makes the former irrelevant.
The public option was essentially insurance offered by the government similar to but in competition with private plans.
It would have involved a limited number of participants, far fewer than was originally advertised, hence the charge of 'bait and switch'.
The public option would require premiums just like private though there might be subsidies.
A single payer system is based on a universal tax and is by definition, universal coverage.
A single payer would tend to control costs, all else being equal, it would lose the 30% overhead of the private insurers.
I agree that HR 676 is the least we should accept. I am a proponent of full national health. Get the profit motive out of all of it.
Sebelius can go to hell.
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...is that Obama will sign pretty much anything so he can whip out the teleprompter and dazzle us with more empty rhetoric about the great triumph he has delivered.
What is equally likely is that the sell-out legislation he's going to sign will almost certainly not solve any of the major problems we have with health care today. The co-ops are not going to be meaningful competition and they won't hold down costs. If most Americans are forced to buy insurance that continues to leave them vulnerable, we'll simply move millions of people from the ranks of the uninsured to the underinsured category. A big PR win? Maybe. But it will most likely mean that millions of people will continue to lack the coverage they need because they can't afford the deductibles and co-pays, and when a major health problem strikes, they will still have to declare bankruptcy and/or face financial ruin.
The win will be short-lived for Obama and when it becomes clear that this legislation has failed, there will be no foundation on which to build a new system. Whereas a public option could have been expanded to create a workable system, co-opts will be useless in this respect. We'll be right back to where we are now -- desperately in need of a completely new health care coverage system with no one of integrity and substance to lead the country.
If there is a mandate for everyone to buy coverage, with this plan, in place of generous subsidies I think we'll see generous exemptions, which will amount to an admission of failure.
Turning the country over to the likes of Palin, Romney, Jindal, etc. is a sickening thought. On the other hand, voting for people who stand for nothing, who will screw you every chance they get, and who fold in the face of the slightest adversity -- in other words the Democrats -- is intolerable.
Obama hasn't turned out to be the bridge we need to a better future. At best he's another unprincipled opportunist devoid of integrity and substance we need so badly. We could have done worse in 2008, we could have elected McCain. However, from what I've seen in the last eight months, the only real difference between Obama and McCain is in the pace of American failure.
Sebelius can go to hell.
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