Scarborough: 'Rational fear' a reason for 'torture'
By David Monday Apr 27, 2009 12:45pm
MSNBC's Joe Scarborough thinks it's a mistake to abandon President Bush's harsh interrogation techniques like waterboarding that many consider to be torture. Scarborough points to a Washington Post poll that says about half of Americans support the use of torture in some cases.
Morning Joe co-host Mika Brzezinski notes that Obama administration officials say that intelligence can be gathered without using torture. "What Robert Gibbs is saying on 'Meet the Press' yesterday, was that they don't know whether other means may be able to get the same information," she said.
"I'm not. Go ahead. Take that chance," scoffed Scarborough. "Sometimes you have a reason to be fearful," he said. "There is irrational fear and then rational fear. If you live in a neighborhood where people's homes get broken into and people get shot and killed at night and their items get stolen, and you're fearful that may happen to you, that's not irrational. That is fear and you will support a stronger police presence in your home. If this country got attacked the way it did on September 11th, 2001, it is not irrational for Americans to fear it might happen again when you have al Qaeda wanting to do nothing but kill all of us, destroy our cities."
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So you're pro-torture, are you? For a rational fear?
I'm guessing President Obama has a very arguable case for rational fear about the violence of many Republicans, the sedition of Faux News, the fear-mongering (technically terrorism, really) of O'Reilly and Beck, talk of secession from at least a couple state governors, and the constant accusations from Republican politicians...
Okay, Mr. Scarborough, I guess the Obama administration should start torturing these people for the good of the country. Don't you agree?
He might beg to differ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u88kf1J6Kv4
You want torture... Then our people, our soldiers can be tortured too... legal !!!
Oh but they do do it.. maybe... but now it will be legal for them..
Bottom line.. why can't they see that ??
That's the American exceptionalist thinking of the Republicans, and why the US was so widely hated when Bush was president..
Torture is wrong, in ANY form
Side note: Your reputation has not yet improved. Far from it.
No doubt. It will take years to undo the damage wrought by Bush, and chickenhawk right wing Americans who advocate torture don't help one bit
Right On Tom
Nope, it's illegal whoever does it.
That is the whole point. It doesn't matter why you do it, to do it at all for any reason is illegal.
I wonder if Joe's intern was tortured.
I would say that Mika has a "rational fear" for her life sitting next to Joe every day.
And bludgeon your intern!
Maybe scarborough needs more:
http://content2.myyearbook.com/usercontent/fa...
Or even:
http://loltheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/...
That picture is profoundly disturbing and funny as hell!
he just can't seem to ramp up the crazy high enuf to get a job offer from FOX>
An irrational act in the name of rationality?
Now I'm getting a rash.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
Franklin would weep if he saw what has happened to this country...
It was our republic to keep, and we couldn't keep it...
Torture is illegal. Those who authorize torture are subject to criminal prosecution.
Not only is torture morally offensive and the antithesis of freedom, but it puts US troops and American tourists abroad at risk of being kidnapped and tortured as 'payback'.
WHY does the right always brush such realities aside?????
You used "right" and "reality" in the same sentence! Fail!
;)
They seldom have a grasp of reality...
Don't you think that the GOP knows that if the country is worried and made to feel over-taxed by Government or made to feel afraid of the brown-skinned Muslims that they will have a better chance of staying in power and making wealthy people wealthier? Its the PERCEPTION of safety they are selling. Heaven forbid they tell people as others have pointed out that WE fought the British and emerged a free nation, that WE survived a brutal and ugly Civil War, that WE survived WWI & WWII, natural disasters, epidemics, put a man on the moon, beat diseases, built industry, WTF do we have to be afraid of?
Except, to paraphrase Walt Kelly, WE has met the enemy and he is the GOP!
This arguing about when and if torture is needed blows my mind! I cry for my country which this proves is now dead and gone. Pax Americana is here.
Joe: "If you live in a neighborhood where people's homes get broken into and people get shot and killed at night and their items get stolen, and you're fearful that may happen to you, that's not irrational. That is fear and you will support a stronger police presence..."
You may want a stronger police presence, but are you going to start dragging people away to be tortured Joe???? (You know, just the shifty looking ones, with darker skin.)
Did Lori scream and beg for her life before you stopped her noise?
You appear to act like an expert on torture Joe.
investigation. I am sure he has no problem with the state using force to extract his confession. Right?
...sanctioned violence. I hope the Florida State's Attorney is paying attention to this fool.
you would get any useful intelligence out of Joe, even by force
I'm glad Joe uses a poll that determined half the people would be OK with "some" torture. If that poll said it was OK to kill Joe, would that be a good poll? Joe, torture is illegal, poll or no poll. It's not a popularity contest. Illegal. Period.
Are you going to Scarborough fear?
Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Torture.....
Funny.
the home of the brave? Looks like a revision is necessary.
"Are you going to Scarbourough FEAR..." Nice line!
Cheers, theWalrus! Awesome.
Thinks Joe Scarborough is an idiot...as are most of his guests..
You can tell just by watching him, he doesn't listen to other people. He's decided things in his own mind, and only likes to spew it out. He's an ideologue, not a journalist.
ok, its rational to be "fearful" if you live in a bad neighborhood, but the cops dont torture people and if they do they are charged with crimes.
a crime is a crime! just because you are "scared" doesnt make it ok to to break them..
Also,, who the hell was so scared? I thought the guys in charge for the last 8 years and those that supported them were so tuff and kick ass.. now they are claiming that they were chickenshit and thats why they did it? absurd.
small men, big mouths.
also I was n NYC on 9-11 the city was not destroyed! several building were knocked down. destroyed citys? go to Iraq,, start in Fallujah
Right wingers tend to be perpetually frightened- When they are not frightened of the Muslims, then its fear of the gays, or the Latinos, or of African Americans- Seriously- constant FEAR seems to define these people- would I be remiss in suggesting they are a bit cowardly?
just calling for mommy for yet another diaper change is all.
There are times on Joe's show when Mika herself and Joe refer to Mika as Mommy.
FAR too much information.
;)
are you volunteering? ; o )
That's how you keep people in line. Tell them someone will harm them if they don't let you do things your way to protect them. The weak ones will fall right in line if they are afraid. Right now the republican party needs everyone they can get any way they can get them. Much of their party has wised up and now call themselves independents.
There is no connection at all between a rational fear and torturing people. Any intelligent, scratch that, any grade school graduate can figure that out. The only people that don't get it are those who lack the ability to think. Their brains are set up sort of like an early desk top calculator. You punch a button and the same response always appears because they are hard wired that way.
Being human requires one to get beyond hard wiring and to think. I begin to despair of any signs of rational thinking in "people" of the Scarborough persuasion.
I'm hard wired.
I'm just wired. But I've got these little blue pills so pretty soon....
Flintstone Vitamins?
Are you a Betty or a Wilma?
If Joe Scarborough is afraid, then by all means we are justified in abandoning every principle this nation ever stood for.
Since we are involved in a "war on terror" and torture is a reasonable reaction to our rational fear of being destroyed by terror, then wouldn't torture be a reasonable reaction to our "War on Drugs". You could make the case that drugs are ruining our society, and that in order to save society we need access to all the tools you would use in a war. So how many of these torture apologists are willing to start advocating it's use in our own police stations? Think of how many more arrests would result in confessions. Wouldn't that be "effective torture"? I mean, it would help clear up the police paperwork, help reduce the manpower spent on investigation, and free up the courts to deal with those who were able to maintain their innocence despite torture.
If you're angling to justify the torturing of Rush Limbaugh then I agree!!
are ruining marriage, so i guess we'll have to be tortured too. Although some of us might like that sort of thing.
What about us straights?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ5LaSPThfc&fe...
And for all the young dudes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUdMBciScd0
Perhaps you missed Flesh Gordon from '74?
Nope.
I still think it paved the way for the derivative Star Wars series.
Doing essentially Flash Gordon without the sex.
On Youtube, all they really have is a sword fight with a monster.
Although I was too young to get inside when it first came out.
But I own the X-rated version.
Reductio ad absurdum - excellent.
The police have a history of beating confessions out of people, and at times murdering suspects, particularly if they are of color- Of course its not as bad as it used to be-but the right wants to return to those days...
The right wants to bring America back to the time of police brutality..
wants to go back to the Dark Ages......where Puritanism is King,everything revolves around a flat earth which was created 6,000 years ago in one week...well, six days.
Oh yes, doing things out of fear is really well-known to get good results.
Mommy, I'm afwaid.
All they have to peddle is fear itself.
I'm afraid of fear, so does this mean by their argument we can torture them?
Sorry..
cuz I thought the Repubs disbelieved in situational morality and the "end justifies the means" kinds of thingies.
They are total hypocrites. CHICKENSHIT HYPOCRITES, AT THAT.
You know, I used to kind of like Scarborough. When he followed KO, I didn't mind listening to him so much because once in a while, he'd surprise you with some common sense.
Maybe he got sick of following KO because he couldn't live up to that kind of standard...I don't know.
But now that Scarborough has a morning show where he's not following a decent reporter and commentator, he must think it's okay to be a douche and to justify torture.
Absolutely the worst talk/news(?) show on cable. MSNBC has mercy on all of us by putting that feces on so early. WARNING: Bigot Buchanan's on practically every day.
Joe has to have buchanan on all the time so he can rely on someone to agree with all the crap Joe says.
Mika used to take a fair stand once in a while, but last week when she called for Donald Trump to change the winner of the Miss USA contest and give it to the girl who was against gay marriage, Mika jumped a shark that can't be unjumped. Even though other judges of the contest said that the girl who won would have won no matter what the other girl said, because she was already so far ahead in the points, Mika threw an insane shit fit.
..when Imus went off the air?
I've always thought he was the MSNBC Imus' replacement.
say that he agreed with Scarborough on his last statement? See, that is why the I have such a distaste for the Democratic Party. People like Harold Ford should be removed and sent to Guant... OK to the Repug Party. I can't believe he said that!!!! Mika, who I dis-agree 80% the time had more courage than this A-hole Ford!
I think it was Pat Buchanan who said that, but fuck them all. Only in America could you have Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski host a debate between Pat Buchanan and Harold Ford on a supposed "liberal" network owned by one of the largest war-profiteering corporations in the history of the world.
We have been in bizarro-world for a long time. Comedy Central and the Cartoon Network are so much more in touch than these fools.
He said. "There is irrational fear and then rational fear. If you live in a neighborhood where people's homes get broken into and people get shot and killed at night and their items get stolen, and you're fearful that may happen to you, that's not irrational. That is fear and you will support a stronger police presence in your home."
So the logical (or rational, if you prefer) inference is that not only do you (Scarborough) support torture for foreign nationals but additionally you support torture by domestic law enforcement for crimes against people and their property. Interesting.
to Lori Klausutis...
..and submit to being waterboarded?
Christopher Hitchens volunteered to be waterboarded, and lasted seconds- and concluded without question it IS torture.
Will any hawks in the right wing media follow Christopher Hitchens's example?
If, as the right asserts, waterboarding isn't torture-then why won't they volunteer?
Sure, I'm ok with that. I'll go steal a 60" plasma screen TV. Yeah, I could buy it, but maybe I can't afford it? But stealing definitely works.
when the trials begin i'm buying a HDTV to help get the enonmy back on it's feet, but not before.
Funny how any crime is a-okay to right wing Repugs-
EXCEPT-lying about a blowjob!!! Hell, that's an impeachable offense!
Ya, and never again though now. And for the record, Clinton won the case.
Crime is only okay if is a right-wing "straight" white "christian" male does it.
I'd have added "wealthy" but then that wouldn't cover a lot of their whacko base.
Would that fear become strong enough that when you found what you believe to be a suspects home of the current break-ins and the police and governing body of the towns ignores you. That one of the other towns(the same one the suspects reside in) sole governing body used you as a pawn against another towns incursion into yours and left you holding the bag and makes idle threats towards your town. That you frustration anger and fear become so great that you grab your car and ram it into the suspects house?
I guess that could be justified?
No Joe you IDIOT. There's enough information now that PROVES it was started BEFORE the war, AND it was used merely to try to get someone to "confess" Saddam Hussein was involved. Don't you ever read ANYTHING you pompous twit?
Rational fear doesn't justify irrational acts. Breaking a law because you are afraid, is no justification.
What a terrifying disservice to the public the MSM has become. Starting with this guy.
I'm all for a debate, but not about keeping arms in the air, or any of the other nonsense that he prefaced his debate promo with. Anything for a buck Scarborough = greed of an empty man.
Republican debate is all about arm waving. Listen to me but not what i propose! He is a ___! That policy is ___! No, he's the ___, not me! I am a ___! This is a ___ republic. Torture is just __, so it doesn't matter. You can't do that or ___ could happen.
As usual Repukes contradict themselves at every turn. They hate government but then turn around and want it to keep them safe, the poor little dears. They're so stupid too, always spouting off about how Bush kept them safe. Hey a-hole, even if that was true, do you really think it was f*&^! W that did it; no it was the "government agencies" duly tasked that did the work, and the very same "government agencies" are still in place doing their job shithead. Repukes are f&#@! pussies and it's that type that have no problem with torture.
Make prisoners watch episode after episode of Morning Joe and they'll tell you everything they know just to make it stop. Plus, that would be legal. Get the episodes where Joe starts ranting and screaming like a crazy man.
add watching Beck and Billo also. Or would that just be too inhumane?
Oh that would be just to awful to consider. One beck show and you would have to put the prisoner on suicide watch.
and i remember when we werent led around by our nose by a bunch of FUCKING COWARDS.
fuck this guy and whoever else sounds like him.
How the fuck can anyone condone torture!! for any fucking reason dont they get it that is what terrorists use a recruiting tool that makes us no better than them.
So, now I can do anything that I want, right?
I'm really really scared, so maybe I should go across the street and rob my neighbor. I might feel better if I had all his stuff.
It was just Mika's hair...
I thought it was one of those poisonous caterpillars that they used
for torturing children...
So Mika is the cleaning lady on Joe's show?
As a proud member of the long-standing ethnic group of Chickensh*t-Americans, Joe Scarboy can solidly argue that we need to do whatever he wants because he's very, very frightened and willing to support any amount of idiocy so that he can have a moment to change his diapers.
Is an idiot.
Lori Klausutis has nothing to say.
Move along, nothing to see here...
I didn't mind watching Loose! Harold Ford.
And i can honestly say i Hope if he ever Runs again that
he will Defeated in the Primaries by a Real Democrat.
is the media playing tapes of republicans justifying the invasion of Iraq because of torture? We should play these chickenhawks justifying the invasion of Iraq because the Saddam regime tortured people. My God, there are thousands of hours of tapes with these assholes saying it over and over and over. Can someone do their job.
the "wrong" people.
The wheels on the short bus go round and round.
It's too bad we have to care what a dope like scarborouh thinks. Cancel him.
Jungle Joe had probably been on the phone with Tom Ridge checking Tom's stock of Duct tape along with the colors available so he can tape up his basement...
Scarborough IS AN IDIOT...and he proves it every day.....
That was Duct tape Dave Paulison
i'd rather die in a terrorist attack than lower myself into being a torture advocating swine like scarborough, hannity, cheney, or their ilk.
dying like that only hurts for a moment, but living as a torturer/enabler lasts a lifetime.
no thank you.
9/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/119/11 9/11 9/11
Just sayin'.
I am so sick of hearing how these people are cowards so we should drop our morals and values so that they aren't so scared. Fuck You Joe! If you can't take the heat move to Canada or somewhere that hasn't been attacked and you can live in rational comfort!
Everyone is quickly beginning to understand just how stupid these shows are because they know that the talking heads are paid to lie.
wow what a surprise same reason for attacking/occupying iraq....fear mongering i mean 'rational fear'
Except that torture doesn't work. Therefore, you'd be committing an illegal (by the way) act for only one reason: vengeance. You twisted SOB.
Maybe Keith Olbermann should start by offering someone at his own network $1000 per second to be waterboarded.
are you volunteering? ; o )
I rationally fear Joe's insanity. Does that mean he can be tortured?
It bugs me to no end to listen to Bush sympathizers like Scarborough who basically get their jollies at the thought of torture being used on detainees. The assertion that Bush kept us safe during the last 7 years of his administration is nonsense on many different levels. The facts are is that our intelligence (
CIA, FBI, NSA) had ample evidence of an imminent terrorists attempt many months prior to the 9/11 attack. Poor communication within the agencies and a basic reluctance to accept the threat on our home turf as credible is what allowed these thugs to carry it out. Call it a combination of Bush et al. being asleep at the wheel and dumb luck that allow it to happen. Torturing people will not prevent another attack from happening.
' That is fear and you will support a stronger police presence in your home. If this country got attacked the way it did on September 11th, 2001, it is not irrational for Americans to fear it might happen again when you have al Qaeda wanting to do nothing but kill all of us, destroy our cities.' - Joe Scarborough
That was almost eight years ago. I remember it well.
It appears that scaredy cat Joe Scarborough wants the U. S. of A. to live in fear for the rest of their natural lives. Fortunately, the U. S. of A. ranks very low in the world in the area of life expectancy so they won't live very long anyway
Living in constant ongoing fear is an option yet not a very viable one.
Has anyone, besides me, noticed that Mika shows all the signs of an abused woman? It’s not surprising the way Joe mocks her and belittles almost everything she says. Joe is a very egotistical dominate male and weather he’s aware of it or not I think he mentally abuses her. Watch the way she reacts to him, the withdrawn expressions on her face, the way she frequently looks at him - as if he can do no wrong – like a good puppy, the way she wantonly looks to him for approval, and the way she changes her opinion for no other reason than to please him. Try as she might to assert herself, in the end he always gets the last word and she almost always bows to his will.
On another note (more on topic), if we want to get information from the detainees, maybe we should just have them do a morning show with Joe. Having to deal with him every morning has to be torture.
They remind me of Archie and Edith Bunker. Joe probably tells her to 'stifle' before they go on the air.
What’s scary is that Scarborough actually believes –
Guys like us, we had it made…
And you know who you were then.
Girls were girls and men were men.
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again…
Those Were The Days.
Perfect description of Scarborough.
He’s such a pig…
Hopefully his tortured logic won’t spread and kill us all.
see Joe The Scar for the TOTAL NUTCASE that he is. His pompous rationalizations are painful to watch. I don't understand how it can be possible that his ratings are creeping ahead of CNN's early morning numbers. His latest BOGUS BULLSHIT about the possibility of prosecuting Obama for war crimes is representative of how completely off-center this MOUTH is.
But apparently I am not the only one who thinks Joe treats Mika like a piece of trash.
This torture post just gives me another reason to hate this misogynist pig.
http://progressnotcongress.org/blog/?p=514
...asshole misogynist who may or may not have murdered his assistant when he was pretending to be a Florida representative. I have never seen any of the odious, obnoxious FoxNews putzes pull the juvenile stunt he did a few months back when he ripped his lav mic off and stomped off the set of Race to the White House because he didn't like what one of the female guests was saying. The pathology is "I'm better than everyone else." This wanker should have been bitch slapped in seventh grade, thereby saving the rest of us from his projected self-hatred. Putz. Putz. Putz.
Screw Morning Joe.
By the way, speaking of "rational fear"...isn't Scarborough the one who had the dead body in his office?
I wish MSNBC would get rid of this half-wit and send him to FuckNews where he belongs.
delusional that they believe that Al Queda is going to get them in their homes. It must be really scary to live life like that. I say that because I myself live in a kind of edgy neighborhood and do not own a gun and don't plan on getting one either. I lock my doors and keep an eye out for trouble but don't have "rational fear" which I think is code for paranoid fantasies that anyone is especially out to get me. Maybe these talk show people do have more reason to fear for their lives. After all, they do stir up a lot of emotions and anger in people and it all could come back to haunt them. But, that is completely of their own doing. So, I do not have any sympathy at all for these folks.
As for debating torture, no thanks. Torture is torture and it is wrong. It is wrong and it's not negotiable. That was determined by an international consensus in the Geneva Conventions. This country very unwisely chose to break with international consensus, which was arrived at to help protect our own soldiers from being tortured. I do not think it is wise to simply throw that all away with the claim that it's necessary to torture for national security. If anything, national security is put much more at risk when we indulge in torturing enemies instead of using other more conventional interrogation techniques. I, as an American, want and ask my government to investigate exactly how the reinstitution of torture took place in the Bush administration and I want it to become a permanent part of the public record. Whether or not prosecution of those responsible takes place is a different matter. When this country needs to tackle health care reform, fix social security and medicare to make them permanently viable, get out of this recession/depression and get people back to work again, when we need to get out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan/Pakistan, the idea of pushing for prosecution of those officials responsible for it is not a high priority as far as I'm concerned. I am in favor of investigations and of the international community to prosecute for war crimes that were committed. And, it can be done in the US as long as it doesn't take away from other more pressing needs.
Or whatever her name is should get Scarburro on the topic of illegal immigration. And ask him if he thinks it's a legal issue?
simple. He'll walk right into it.
He's too full of himself to think fast enough.
Then ask him about torture. Is it a legal issue?
simple. Set a trap for him or Buchannon. Either one will walk right into it.
... the mind of the U.S. GOP conservative in America today, doesn't it?
Irrational fear. Live it, embrace it and use it as your excuse to do ANYTHING.
I cannot watch this show because of the right wing propaganda. Joe and Pat Buchanan use this show to defend the reichwing crimes and propaganda and Mika is becoming just as bad. Did Joe ever explain how his intern died in his office?
Joe has spent his life watching cheap TV shows where the hero commits torture to get the answers to save lives. Joe never served in the military as usual and never will serve. He has never made a commitment that torture would be of misuse and he never will. He would cry like a baby if given the interrogation enhancement devices.
...and time again you see the right wing marginalizing and downplaying the severity of the techniques used.
'putting a catapillar in a box with a guy and making him stick his hands in the air for a while'.
No, no one said it was just that. How about these things for endless hours on end with much worse insects crawling all over you in tiny spaces and waterboarding and hot temperatures and loud music and sleep deprivation and on and on and on.
Joe and the right just don't get what the discussion is about. They think it's about some airy fairy light treatment of people. It's a weak defense.
What happened to these republicans like Scarrborro that turned them into such cowards?
As a life long,disgusted Republican I take issue with your statement, Joe.
1. there no one left in the GOP with the ability to be rational about anything...they are too busy stroking each others egos, demonizing anyone who dares question their judgement and trying to establish a ONE PARTY government minus checks and balances. Not to mention the COVER UP MODE for the SINS of the Bush Administration
which are finally coming to light.
2. The GOP does not know the meaning of 'fear'...they either win the elections, steal them through biased courts, or insight their blind sheep Christian Right followers to kill and take the streets to keep the homos', socialist and FREEDOM OF CHOICE Democracy out of control.
3. Last and not least....THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO TORTURE...so said John McCain and honest, law abiding Americans.
Go on over to FOX NEWS....they need some backup for their HATE Mongering.
disgusted Democrat, I feel ya man.
how this asshole keeps talking over Mika Brzezenski? He does it over and over and over again. What a shithead.
Fear focuses the mind for more methodical torture.
[Psych 101 distinction between anxiety and fear.]
It may be against the MSNBC
rule book, but sooner or later, this Scarborough punk has got to be offered up on Keith Olbermann's Worst Person in the World for his idiot opinions.I do not watch this turd. He should be flushed along with Limpballs.
Joe Scareborrow is on TeeVee!
I think if I was a young woman, I would have a rational fear of dying in Joe's office.
Poor poor fearful Cons. They really hate our country.
I fear that if conservatives return to power, they will resume the catastrophic policies that have destroyed America's economy, environment, and world prestige. Based merely on the evidence of the last eight years, it would seem these fears are rational.
Who am I justified in torturing to prevent this?
Who knew the GOP would embrace the early policy of Malcolm X?
Wouldn't that now be Malcolm NC-17?
What cowards these people like bush/chenny and scarboro are!
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