Lawsuit claims taser used on teens without cause
The Illinois Office of State Guardian is suing two sheriff's deputies for using a stun gun on three teenaged boys. The suit alleges that the boys did nothing to provoke the officers.
In court papers, the office says two Jefferson County deputies -- David Bowers and Lonnie Lawler -- went on a rampage July 4, 2008, at the Southern Thirty Adolescent Center near Mount Vernon. The deputies had been called to the shelter -- which houses boys ages 11 to 18 -- because of problems with three children ages 11 and 12.
The suit charges Bowers used his Taser on one teenage boy with no provocation and then pushed another boy down and stunned him as well. Lawler allegedly handcuffed another boy, while Bowers then stunned him.
A 17-year-old girl, at the shelter for a day program, tried to get the two men to stop, the suit says. Lawler allegedly put her in handcuffs and Bowers choked her and shut her in a closet.
nothing will be done with them because they have a massive union warchest and popular approval. I wonder if the children are brown.
Some stuff you can't make up!
/snark
... about the racial factor.
sounds like a place where children are placed largely for behavioral problems. i would suggest any of you thinking you can help these children to modify their behaviors should apply for this job. as for children up to the age of 18 these can be some very big kids, again with behavioral problems. any of you with better ideas and a sense of altruism are welcome to help out.
Sorry for butting in, but what is your point? The police department who serves this area should have a plan for dealing with these typse of situations, and violence should play no part.
Having taught SED kids(severely emotinally disturbed), and then in a special program for teenage girls from gangs, I can attest to this. This was a program where the sherrifs department, the school board, and social services all left their egos in the parking lot, and came together to help these kids.
Kids like this have seen so many adults who respond with violence, that they will come to worship any authority figure who can demnostrate compassion. I have seen this first hand, and on a fairly regular basis. It takes time to for them to develop trust and respect, but once they see you're authentic, yeah, they pretty much idolize the good guys.
To sum up: Using violence with this group of kids, whether unprovoked or provoked, is akin to attemptig to douse a fire with a gallon of gasoline.
Every staff member and teacher who works with this population of kids is routinely trained in non-violent restraining methods.....so what's the excuse of these guys???
What the What??? Puter's been crazzzzzzzzy today.
[It isn't you or your "Puter", it's the internets. Site Monitor]
Thanks for the bona fideable tip.
i was dispatched to one of these group homes to take a run away report. when i walked into the home, i heard what sounded like bb guns being shot in the room to my right. i walked in and found two boys, of the four in this room, shooting at each other with CO2 bb pistols that resembled actual firearms in every way. only because i heard them shooting air guns before i saw the guns themselves, was i able to avert a tragedy by not shooting them with my hand gun.
i think my point is that these kids are more often than not very very troubled, and often quite violent. they are there in these homes for good reason.
if you can handle every situation that may occur here in these homes without violence then i commend you. in fact, your behavior is quite miraculous indeed.
i simply took their bb guns away from them without any use of force what so ever. if i had seen the guns first and not heard them, in all likelihood they would have been shot.
Rebel Without a Charge?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Any chance these good ole boys cut their teeth on depravity in Iraq?
Sow the wind reap the whorlwind or the chickens are coming home to roost and it won't be pretty.
... had a friend who did a tour in Iraq, wound up killing himself and his estranged wife last year.
Whirlwind
Sounds like some performing tricks with their farts.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
....big brave bullies with electrical stun guns....imagine what those guys were like in school......and when will this nonsense with "tasers" end.......it's totally out of hand
I know there can be some tough strong kids, but no matter what, they should not use a taser on kids, period. Kids and old people should never be tased. I know a taser is better than shooting them, but what would these cops have done if their taser was not so close at hand?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Rubber hoses to the bottoms of feet just got too hard to conceal.
Now they just juice some poor asshole with 50k volts. Maybe his heart stops for a second. So what?
Obviously cops need way more training. They also need a way better screening system to eliminate the unstable and the power freaks and bullies.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Oh, and a big hug to whoever got the C&L site back in gear and running smoothly. My day is already better then yesterday. :)
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
police kill people. Stop calling them for purposes other than killing.
... fair game.
I object to you categorizing ALL police as killers, as I have five family members who are police officers.
[Deleted. You've made your point, now it's all about the flame. Please stop it-Sitemonitor]
Nice. I point out that not all police are psycho-killers in the pay of the government, and your reply is 'they need therapy'?
Insulting my family members ain't winning you points.
You've just won a prize for the most tasteless remark EVER.
You just insulted my grand-uncle, who passed away two weeks ago. His son is one of the police officers in our family. My uncle was a man of stellar character and generosity, and you're accusing him of being an abuser?
You have no credibility in this discussion. None.
Good day, Sir.
::: toggle ignore :::
... I think that does it for me, today.
I'm no longer in a civil mood.
not a big fan of cops as a group, but, apparently, I must be getting soft in my old age, by comparison! Even some of my rather hardcore friends might blush...
I don't know anyone in your family, Shadow, but I don't assume that anyone who puts on a badge was abused. Maybe I'll try psychoanalyzing the next cop who has my spun/drunk ass in the back of a Caprice about his familial abuse history--not.
Sorry about the loss in your family. I'm sure he was much more than a cop, let alone an abuse victim.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Maybe it's this eclipse thang that's got people wound up.
I have always respected your comments, and found them to be well thought out, and interesing.
My comment above jives with what you say about your family members in law enforcement. The good ones are earthbound Angels, esp., to kids who clinging to their sanity in a world of crazy adults. My sympathy to you, and your family.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=840B27zYfOk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuSrsGzhD9U
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I hope that was a snark. The times I have had to deal with police they have never been anything but very helpful.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
psychopaths are very good at faking it.
personal experience?
I add my objection for anyone to categorize a whole group of people based upon the actions of a handful of individuals.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
(and will often rant about them, especially when out drinking or in custody), I realize that not all are bullies with badges and bullets; many do their oath proudly. Ive just found it best to avoid contact with most if at all possible, under most circumstances=='nuff said.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
their one and only job is to insure that you hand your money over to the "government". If you insist on holding on to your money, each and everyone one of them will kill you.
They pretend to be part of the protection racket so you might not notice what they're really hired for.
To quote one of my favorite lines:
"Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City 'Sailor wanna hump-hump' bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here."
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
Your lover's a psychopath?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
hahahahahahaha ...
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
I am so dense. I don't want to tell anyone how long it took me to figure out the humor in those comments.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I follow your posts dense you are not
Politics is ugly
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh-ttsYcWb8&fe...
n/t
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
http://www.odysseymagazine.co.za/ezine/ezine_...
http://www.thetao.info/
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...and control practiced by racists. Coming from a family of three generations of Chicago police officers and detectives, I know that police brutality exists on a daily basis.
Stop pissing off your family then.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Here's my funny police story. The guy who lived next door to me was a sheriff. About five years go he died. The rest of the dept made a very big deal of his death. The morning of his funeral I looked out my window to see dozens of cops on their official motorcycles and even more official cop cars all lined up and ready to escort the widow to the funeral in a limo. The only trouble was the limo was parked and waiting in my driveway. I had to out and tell the limo driver they were lined up at the wrong house. He then went over and told each officer and motorcycle patrolman their error. It was kind of funny to watch each of them back up their cars and bikes and finally the limo driver backed out of my drive and moved next door where the widow and her family stood waiting.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
......and I've always wondered why there is such a show of force for a policeman or a fireman's death.........is there any other occupation where this happens?? It makes absolutely no sense!!
This sheriff had wrecked so many cop cars that he had been assigned to be a school officer. He was a total pain in the ass as a neighbor. He complained once because some water from our sprinkler system was falling on his grass. The good news was that it was nice to have a sheriff's car parked next door every night.
I can't remember if tasers were around when he was alive, if they were he probably would have tried to use it and tased himself. Yes, we did refer to him as Barney Fife when he wasn't around.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
one bullet that he had to keep in his pocket? :-D
.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsfnzXLGusI
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...obviously no one else knows the answer to that either.....:)
Maybe it's some sort of show of brotherhood or something.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
That would probably be prime time to pull a bank heist, transport that kilo of coke across town, or register as a Republican...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Especially after they raise the sin tax, and Elliott Ness and Melvin Pervis of the FDA are after our ass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNN4GeoK1hk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I bet David and Lonnie watch Faux News ALL the time...
This whole thing with "Tasers" used on anyone (particularly such as this) is very disturbing. I'm an electrical engineer, and I KNOW electricity. Iv'e gotten nailed more than once, high voltage and low current, as well as RF systems at low frequency, through microwave (skin effect kicks in as the frequency goes up, and the shock becomes a burn, as the fluid in your cells gets very hot).
Although I am not a medical professional, I do know a heck of a lot about high voltage and low current and effects to the body. With the taser it depends on quite alot of factors to determine the actual amount of current delivered, and where its applied. The human mechanism runs on electricty. A taser has limited current capability in theory. However the taser shoots two probes into the skin for a complete electrical path. If that path is across the heart, it is very possible to put the heart into defibrilation and send a damaging charge into the brain, which again, is all electrical. Humans are basically big bags of conductive saline water. The skin resistance dry is about 10K ohms on average. However the probes ensure that the taser is not "dry" it is very wet. At this point, the resistance is around < 500 ohms. Ohms law states I=E/R where I is the current, E=voltage (electromotive force) and R= resistance in ohms. If the taser delivers a potential of 50kV and the resistance is = to, or <500 ohms, and that charge is delivered across the heart (do the math), even worse in short pulses say 200 milliseconds (.2 seconds) that is NOT a non lethal electrical disruption of the body! Obviously the power system in the taser is unable to provide all of the current that ohms law would try and provide, but it can provide substantial current as compared to the running current of the body!!
Anyone one has "gotten it" say across across the anode of a CRT, knows what happens - and that is generally dry or at most, moist epidermis, and its just for the period that the anode is draining through your body.
When someone is "defibrilated" after a heart attack, a similar voltage/current is used to restart the heart. But when a heart that is NOT in defibrilation or stopped, is exposed to that charge (either from a defibrilator or a taser), it can and will throw it into fibrilation. Fibrilation is simply when the heart muscle spasms uncontrollably, and all of the millions of heart muscle fibers are "doing their own thing". It is a heart out of control. When a normally beating heart is thrown into that state, for a few milliseconds, it may or may not be able to recover normal operation.
If that heart is weakened by disease, age, (either young or old) its capacity to recover is reduced, and the risk increased. Make no mistake, we ARE electrical organisms, each cell operating at a couple of volts (and therefore, very very low current - (remember ohms law) and when 50kV is slammed into them - the body literally explodes. That is why the taser can bring someone down.
The officers are not electrical engineers, nor are they health care professionals. They only know what they are told. They are told "well the current is very low - only a few microamperes, and its only a short duration. Remember Ohms law once again. Tasers are not non-lethal and should NOT be at the ready for peace officers to use unless the situation would otherwise require deadly force. They are devices of torture and their non-lethality claim is asinine.
Got to figure that people on stimulants (cocaine, methamphetamines, etc) would also be susceptible to this type of "non-lethal" jolt as well.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Their body is already in a hyper-state
I worked at a plant for one summer in college and I was zapped a few times. It certainly didn't feel good.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
throw a loaded capacitor at you and say "catch" :-* LOL
(hahaha)
It was me standing in a small pool of water while plugging in an electric pump.
You'd think I would have learned my lesson the first three times.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
touching the high tension lead (coil to dist. cap) while the engine's running?...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
And I don't want to find out.
:)
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
But imagine putting a nice conductive gel all over your hands, and doing it in your bare feet!
without fancy gels and special clothing, thank you very much!
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
I covered this story on my blog, The Hinterland Gazette, earlier this week, and I was appalled a what allegedly happened. All too often we have read horror stories of people being tasered by cops and the medical problems that it causes. Surely there are other ways the cops can subdue someone in their custody or who they have a confrontation with.
We will have to wait to see if the claims made by the teenagers are substantiated and what the outcome of this trial will be, but I still say taser guns are more hassle than they are worth. Some people may say that these kids are troublemakers and are lying on the cops, but the bigger issue for me is the use of tasers and the medical problems it has caused in many instances.
http://blackpoliticalthought.blogspot.com
:-(
Indeed, if you're already "in the system," or know you'll be arrested anyway, lying to police (and forcing them to prove otherwise) is often the best course of action. (Personal experiences here, not legal advice given...)
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
... the guilty man lies because he doesn't want to be caught.
... the innocent man lies because he doesn't want to be blamed for something he didn't do.
... and equally disgusting.
I predict a bright future for him in Republican politics.
I believe it has some insight and merit. One more thought: A lot of cops have had backgrounds of violence and neglect.
Some become very gifted, and can work with the most dysfunctional in society. The others only make things worse....much, much worse.
Like the Native American proverb, paraphrased says: We all have two wolfs within us, one is compassion, the other is hate/anger. Which one will we choose to feed???
So I guess it is cheaper to train an idiot to fire a taser than it is to train him to communicate. To a 12 year old. *SHEESH*
Exactly. what is going on here? incompetence.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
It's not fair to blame the police for not being a trained social worker, therapist, or analyst. That's not their job or their purpose.
If you need a therapist, don't call a cop, call a therapist.
If, on the other hand, you call a cop, it's a bit silly to be upset because they do their job.
Now, I'm not saying that these guys were just "doing their job." If the allegations made in the suit are accurate, then they were most decidedly NOT doing their job, and at the very least shouldn't be ON the job. On the other hand, the paperwork filed in any lawsuit doesn't necessarily tend to be objective. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
OK, maybe a police officer is required to handle too many types of situation. there should be the normal force that is here to serve and protect, and there should be a seperate, special force that is called out to handle armed and dangerous situations.
There is just no way a cop should need be compelled to kill a non lethal citizen - no matter what that person says or does. The first motto of a police officer shouls always be - don't make matters worse.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Fucking cops. For every good one, there seem to be two bad ones, tasers on stun.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
No, for every bad one you hear about, there are hundreds of good ones that spend 20-plus years of their lives cleaning up other people's messes without causing problems. And every time something like this happens, those good ones have their jobs get just that much harder.
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