Hume: 'Draconian' Arizona law will cause civil rights violations
A new Arizona immigration allow will allow police to demand proof of residency if they have "reasonable suspicion" that a person is not in the country legally. Fox News' Brit Hume supports the bill but predicts it will lead to civil rights violations.
"I think it's going to be quite a trick to train the police officers in that state so that they can carry out this mandate to check anybody who they have a reasonable suspicion of being in the country illegal without engaging in profiling or violating their civil rights. I think that's going to be very difficult to do. There probably and inevitably will be civil rights violations," Hume told Chris Wallace Sunday.
Hume called the bill "emergency policy" but said it was unclear if it would stand up to a court challenge.
"The question really though is, that seems to me, did Arizona act reasonably here under the circumstances by passing this somewhat draconian law? And the answer may well be yes, because they are facing a serious crisis down there induced by the presence in their midst of a lot of illegals, some of whom are causing terrible problems," said Hume.
Arizona law enforcement got a head start on harassing Latinos even before Gov. Jan Brewer could sign the bill into law Friday. AZFamily.com reports that a truck driver in Phoenix was arrested because he could not immediately produce a birth certificate.
He supports a law he believes will violate peoples civil rights. So he supports the violation of peoples civil rights. Sounds about right for Hume. A white rich conservative's thoughts on them dirty Mexicans.
is intended to be a factual statement
arizona needs to be boycotted and
arizona can go fuck itself, especially
their addlepated governor bitch.
Democrats need to use this Republican tyranny in Arizona to political advantage across the country. It should be constantly hammered about in every election from now on with a focus on what Republicans attempted to do in Arizona against brown people -- whether they're citizens, immigrants, or illegals.
The "birther" loons also need to be egged on as much as possible. Rightards should be encouraged to spew their insane race hate so that voters can see by their own words and actions who and what the GOP are and what their Party stands for.
Mister Shit Fume, subject matter expertise in the bleeding obvious.
I wonder if the AZ Teabaggin' Goopers will drop all PRETENSE and sport buttons and bumperstickers that say, "I'm WHITE so I'm LEGAL."
Gawd help us if these PIGS get power again.
http://www.tkinter.smig.net/Romania/ArtGaller...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...Hume thinks Arizona acted reasonably in passing a (somewhat) draconian law that he doubts is constitutional and will inevitably result in civil rights violations.
Jeebus, the bar sure is low these days for Republicans.
Question for all:
How many think that this law is illegal because profiling will (surely) be exercised on Latin Folk...?
versus
How many think this law is illegal period...?(regardless of whether "profiling" is very likely to occur when exercising the above mentioned law?...
...in other words...
is it ok to ask someone for papers when they are (NOT) "reasonably suspected" of a crime?
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
It's OK in a right wing theocracy. Just look at the middle east if you want to see where the Republicans would take us.
Republicans could end up making America like a western middle east without even trying. All they would have to do is keep on peddling greed, fear, hate, racism, and violence, and that takes hardly any effort at all, and no brains.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
That's exactly where the religious lunatics here would like to take this country. And they very well might succeed.
It's hard for modern people to believe that the Middle East was once the world's beacon of free thought and science. Centuries ago, the best place to be if you wanted to be on the cutting edge of thought and technology was Baghdad.
But eventually, religious fear took hold among the common folk. The movement spread. Now, the region is a war-torn hell hole.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
and religious intolerance. Don't forget religious intolerance. And mandatory prayer in school, at work, in stores, at home and anywhere else one might be at prayer time.
because one specific ethnic group is told they have to carry papers documenting their citizenship.
police can check anyone (repeat) ANYONE !!
...who they think might be illegal.
what the hell makes you think they wont pull a white guy like me over for being Russian?
(don't you get it?)
anyone...who...they...suspect... of...being...an...illegal...immigrant!!!
this law can and will be used on all Americans...(Islamic Hindu ect...ect)
(you should be just as afraid for white folk, asian folk, and black folk) ...as you are for Latin ones.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
but the specifics of the bill targets hispanics.
coming close to mentioning "hispanics"
(WTF) are you talking about?
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
in practice. wait and see...
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
do you think they passed the law? Don't play the RW ignorance.
Milquetoast doesn't want to have to wear his bandanna...
so he plays this game.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
shit about how *everybody* will be targeted. Yes it sets a bad precedence for everyone, but make no mistake, it's targeted at the Latino community, and in the end it will hurt people of Mexican or Central American descent and those who like they're of that descent the hardest.
We were having a discussion here at home that some Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Haitians, etc. can maybe escape this harassment because they could pass for African-American, and there are people such as Argentinians who might be able to escape it because many of them look Caucasian, etc.
Ugh.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
As a practical matter, I think it's insane to suggest that this "law" targets everyone. No matter how egalitarian its language, we all know the practical effects it will have. And we all know what police will be looking for when they go on their illegal immigrant hunts.
But here's something that actually scares me: Given that the panicked policy makers who enacted this Unamerican (we can call it that, right?) disaster are well aware that everyone else is well aware of its racism, will they start targeting white people they don't like just to pad their numbers?
Seriously, could the cops be instructed (on the down low, of course) to seek out, say, liberals, progressives, socialists, Democrats, gay people or anyone else they don't like? So that they can have statistics that show that each race has an equal chance of being fucked by the law?
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
I think. They may try to cover up the racism by targeting white undesirables.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
that white people have been victims of illegal inland border checkpoints for over a year?
(I will be standing by with vid links if you want them)
[That would be 'Off Topic,' spam, since you keep posting it and deleted-Sitemonitor]
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Checkpoints are the overreaching way governments get away with this shit, passing it off as Constitutional.
The idea is that if you just set up a random roadblock somewhere, and stop everyone, whether it be for drinking and driving or crossing the border illegally, whether there is suspicion or not, it's okay. I think it's nonsense, and only further enables totalitarian overreach.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
gets it!!!
karen gets 98 points! (out of a hundred)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Well yes, there is no doubt this kind of law will be fully exploited in the end. Very bad all around.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Dude, everyone "gets it," even rightards.
I have seen the videos on YouTube of these illegal checkpoints, and I have watched as Americans video tape themselves being harassed by the fascist pigs and refusing to answer questions.
Now Arizona is going to start setting up the same thing (count on it) and will be asking everyone if they're citizens, trying to play pretend that they're not racist pigs by asking even honkeys in among the brown skins they ask.
I'm against illegal Mexicans et al. sneaking in to the country, but I'm against a theofascist State even more. What Arizona has pulled is the epitome of theofascism aimed against brown people, not just illegals.
BTW: We have all seen the link before, many times.
(that link was good proof that...
illegal checkpoints that ask about someone's citizenship are bad for all)
(I resent that deletion)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
In theory perhaps, but it's a stretch. The first falsely arrested and jailed American Citizen in Arizona so far already is Latino. We'll see exactly how many Russian Americans are inflicted by this law...
We'll see how many British Americans are inflicted by this law. We'll see how many Italian Americans are inflicted by this law. And we're talking about American born citizens here, not immigrants.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
"The first falsely arrested and jailed American Citizen in Arizona so far already is Latino"
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/az...
Two stories down on C&L - i hope i read it right...
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
He was detained two days before it was signed. The video does not make clear who made the arrest or demanded his birth certificate. He was detained by the Feds. That is the only agency mentioned.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
Ya. If it happened before the ruling it was not affected by the ruling.
The story is a little disturbing though because it means every Arizona Citizen risks jail time if not carrying their birth certificate.
Especially if the Latinos are not singled out - then everyone is inconvenienced - bad all around.
I don't carry my birth certificate for obvious reasons so i guess i better stay away from the cops if i don't want to spend a few hours in jail...
you too, whoever you are..
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
is now whining about has always been around for law enforcement officals to abuse for a long, long time.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
Are you suggesting we have all been asleep at the switch?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBMSzw7YhHo
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
It is bad for everyone. just look at the middle east...
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
...white guys who are pissed because there was OBVIOUSLY no reason that THEY should be pulled over.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
you should be a rocket scientist.
whats the difference between a white guy who get pulled over for no reason and a latin one? (are they both supposed to be "not pissed"...or something?
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Shoes?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Amusing. Very. The whole thing is just so absurd. The Republinazis in Arizona are deliberately targeting everyone with brown skin and we can count on the fuckers to start violating white people's rights in an effort to "prove" that they're not theofascist racist Republinazis.
was too subtle for you to grasp, MT.
me-oww!
I think it's a blatant violation of the Fourth Amendment. Thus far, searches and seizures of human beings (citizens or not) based only upon a "reasonable suspicion" have only been deemed to be "reasonable" under the Fourth Amendment when police perceive an immediate violent danger. And even then, the only action police are allowed to take is a brief stop to pat someone down for weapons.
I even have problems with the expansion of police powers in that way, though I at least understand the rationale. Straying any further from probable cause requirements is insanely dangerous to our civil liberties!
(And then, of course, there are arguments to be made that this is not a legitimate use of state powers anyway as such powers have been explicitly delegated to the federal government.)
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
.
Either we are ALL suspected of being guilty OR we are ALL innocent until proven guilty. According to Arizona Law, we are all now, suspected of being guilty and must prove our innocence if we are called to task to do so.
FASCISM!
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
to ask anyone for papers without a crime being committed and there is reasonable cause to believe that the person had something to do with the crime. It is illegal search which is not allowed by the bill of rights.
Actually, it's not kosher for the police to ask for papers period. You don't have to identify yourself to the cops, even if they do suspect you of having committed a crime. You always have the right to remain silent.
If you are pulled over for a traffic infraction, you may be required to show papers that you are actually licensed and insured to drive, but that's different under the law. Infractions do not rise to the level of crimes, and checking driving privileges is not checking your basic right to exist and be here. (Not that I necessarily agree with the way our traffic laws work.)
Otherwise, though, you can't just be asked by police who "suspect" something to talk to them and show your papers. It
doesn'tis not supposed to work that way.Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Ask yourself what would happen if white honkeys were required to carry papers and show them to every fascist pig that demanded them. Honkeys would literally be up in arms and would slaughter the politicians that passed -- or tried to pass -- such laws.
Obviously Republidiots aren't opposed to brown people being forced to prove that they're citizens. The only way to make it *fair* would be to demand that *everybody* carry and show papers which, in any event, is meaningless since papers are easily forged regardless of technology and because of technology.
..period. It's also a great door opener to the totalitarian way.
"I support it, but I believe it to be IN VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION."
Why does Brit Hume hate the Bill of Rights?
me-oww!
I keep hearing this rationale from the nation's lobotomized conservatives. They talk and talk about how there is such a huge problem with illegal immigrants, and while this might not be the best solution, for the love of everything holy, something must be done.
Even putting their histrionics aside (I'm almost positive that none of the people with whom I've spoken have ever been hurt in any way by an illegal immigrant), this is a preposterous defense.
It's like saying, "I have a serious ant problem in my house, and the exterminators thus far can't seem to get rid of them completely, so I've decided to burn my house down."
Fucking morons.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
(allegedly). They were all super workers and wanted one thing-a better life for their families back home.
I think the saddest thing I ever saw regarding illegal immigrants were two repeat 'offenders' in federal court, both with kids and baby mamas here. They'd just wanted to see their kids. They were forced to apologise for trespassing again, and promise never to come back again, for sentencing. One of the guys-he was from so far away in the sticks-his first language was an indigenous one, his second was Spanish.
They had little drug records from long ago (this indigenous guy, he was forced into it, the court acknowledged), but that wasn't the issue this time. It was that they were here to see their loved ones.
me-oww!
I had to compete with loads of guys who were here illegally (allegedly)
competing with cheap labor cut into my wages...(and I'm poorer now because of it)
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
was defined as illegal by governments. In a truly free society we would range free like birds. Boundaries would not matter. Why are you afraid to compete on the open market with the price and quality of the services you offer?
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
I'm sure you didn't mean to confuse him with a libertarian argument now, did you?
BTW, I like serious ricky as much as hoax ricky, pre-blogging-DougJ impostor. Just sayin'....
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Had to wash both cars. Damned volcanic ash and no
mojaditos to be found to get it done cheap. I refuse to use the car wash. God is on the coins and the machines are made in China.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
I got a problem with competing with exploited labor.
it has nothing to do with open market...
(and furthermore)legal contractors who hire cheap illegal immigrants...
...have an unfair advantage in what you "think" of (or wrongly consider) as an "open market"
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
one contractor as legal and one worker legal, while others are defined as not legal. REAL libertarians
are principled, unblike REAL progressives, who are merely disappointed.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
tough titties.
You make yourself a very unsympathetic figure with your posts.
me-oww!
I worked with loads of guy who were here illegally (allegedly). They were all super workers and wanted one thing-a better life for their families back home.
That's fine, they can stand in line and do it legally the way it's done in civilized countries. Instead third world shitters sneak across the border and criminal companies make use of their slave labor rather than hire honkeys like me at a fair (albeit minimum) wage.
Yes, I won't scrub toilets or pick lettuce however I *will* harvest fruits and nuts, even for minimum wage.
"allegedly." Those papers represented themselves to my boss as legally here. Green Card, ID and SSN. She paid them not slave wages. If they didn't have papers that looked real, they would not have gotten the job.
Any they worked a lot harder than most of the white guys I worked with. You may be willing to harvest fruits and nuts, but I'll wager you haven't got the speed and volume factor over most immigrant ptckers, here legally or not.
me-oww!
.
... This is AFTER you have burned down your neighbors' house first, because your neighbor migh be sending them over.
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
terrified of liberty for those he cannot control? Because he is ruled by fear? Because he is a right wing authoritarian dick?
So Brit Hume likes the law but expresses concern that abuses might lead to racial profiling. Memo to Brit Hume: This law does not just invite racial profiling, by its nature it practically obligates racial profiling.
Hume gets it.......so, what's the catch?
To illustrate the catch, I'll rely on my memory of an episode of the Simpsons in which Homer is characteristically overlooking his daughter's beliefs and concerns.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
Exactly.
But I guess it's progress that Brit Exhumed admits there might be some legal wrinkles involved -- even if he ultimately shrugs them off with a "But hey, whaddya gonna do?"
Brit Hume has to think about the employers. Think about those employers Britt.
Would it be draconian to enforce employment laws? Not at all.
Save the draconian measure for Draconia. This is America we're talking about.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
As you can see...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJN8X14rU3g
MTD
Those silly dummies will not even understand the irony.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
are going to get a lot of them. I mean the peanut gallery can even sue if they think Latinos aren't being harassed enough, so Arizona will get lawsuits from both sides, plus a possible Supreme Court challenge to the law, so they'd better buckle up. They are going to pay for their racism and idiocy.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Actually, it would be very difficult for the wrong side to have standing to sue for the law's not being enforced enough.
I do hope so. But what happens when the "enemy combatants" rationale is invoked that says that non-citizens don't even have habeas corpus rights? No papers, no right to prove your case in court.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
goes to show how far we've fallen in this country. :(
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Actually, it would be very difficult for the wrong side to have standing to sue for the law's not being enforced enough.
Companies can certainly sue the local government for failing to rigerously enforce the illegal brown skin laws if the company alleges that unfair market competition caused by illegals has adversely impacted the company's revenues.
It should be easy for companies to show damages if the Taco Bell next door is employing slave labor illegal Mexicans and the Mom-N-Pop next to it has food prices that can't compete.
Maybe. }:-}
I dunno. I don't put anything past the Bushevik judges on the federal bench, but it would seem a difficult case to make. And not just on the merits, even on standing grounds. (I'm hardly an expert on standing law, so I'm (un)happy to be corrected.) ;)
A plaintiff company would have to show that the actions of a specific officer of the government (gotta name an official, can't just sue "the state") was the cause of the company's redressable injury. The injury part wouldn't be the problem. It would be connecting a specific person's actions to the injury that would be the problem.
But, hey, it's been a long time since I studied standing law.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
"Arizona law enforcement got a head start on harassing Latinos even before Gov. Jan Brewer could sign the bill into law Friday. AZFamily.com reports that a truck driver in Phoenix was arrested because he could not immediately produce a birth certificate."
By reporting an incident which allegedly occurred two days before the bill became law in which the victim was reported to have been arrested by an unnamed law enforcement agency and turned over to Feceral authorities.
I hate this law, and have no doubt this type of incident will occur with increased frequency, but what happened to this man did not happen under the authority of this law. "Born in East LA" was made in 1987.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
.
What does an undocumented worker look like?
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Save the World.
Well, for one thing they work. Apparently they also wear shoes.
That is about all you can say.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Arizona is releasing violent criminals back to the streets because
of funding problems!
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Police-forced-to...
I found this on the web site of the TV station that covered the Mexican American trucker who was forced to show his birth certificate.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
The Zona police will stop and hassle somebody with some real weight and the shit will really start.
This just gives police carte blanche to stop anyone they want and demand identity that most people won't have. They've been doing this shit in Texas forever, only in Texas they don't bother passing a law.
"Lord Hume of Draconia"?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
I guess if I travel through Arizona, I'd better carry my US passport. Better yet, I just won't go to Arizona; there are 49 other states.
The thing of it is, I have to pass through about 50 miles of Arizona on the way to Colorado twice a year. One can't easily avoid the theofascist State entirely.
Arizona is going to be like Utah: People will drive through it as quickly as they can and try to get across the border before the theofascist religious loons can pull them over.
their Christian faith will offer them the kind of forgiveness and redemption they need for passing this law, huh Shit Fumes?
in the sense that it has brought the need for comprehensive immigration reform to the front of the line for discussion, debate and, I hope, a fair settlement. When a country has something around 10 million people working but forces them into the margins, something is fundamentally wrong.
Once upon a time there was a documentary, 'Harvest of Shame'. The country needs an up-date.
This is so screwed up. They would violate the civil rights of 15% of the general population but god forbid that they ever crack down on employers who violate labor laws. I guess that the American thing to do is to become a police state and force people to go around with Travel Papers. This seems to mean that if you're Mexican in Arizona, you can't go out for a jog without a cop arresting you for having an illegal skin color.
I'm not sure how many of them are grads though...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Well, stone the crows... someone on Fox actually said something that's true. So Hume figured out that Arizona's "papers, papers, I must see your papers" law will result in some civil rights violations. Amazing. But of course he goes on to say he supports the law, meaning, I guess, that he supports civil rights violations.
And these are the folks who keep chanting that Obama is taking away their rights.
It's getting weird out there, folks...
A new Arizona immigration allow will allow police to demand proof of residency if they have "reasonable suspicion" that a person is not in the country legally.
It's actually much worse than that. The law requires police to ask for papers if the officer suspects the person
has brown skinis here illegally.Who would've thunk it ... the guy's not completely useless after all.
*
I like the comment someone posted in alt.impeach.bush to the effect that everyone in Arizona should claim to be in the country illegally thus making it difficult for the fascist State to violate the cvivil rights of citizens.
If everyone refuses to prove that they're citizens (regardless of their skin hues) the courts should be crammed packed with lots of people and the fascist State will eventually give up.
Everyone with a laser printer should print out citizenship papers for themselves and present them to cops if they're pulled over. FUCK the pigs really good if everyone did it.
there are so many dipshits who live here who support this discriminatory/authoritarian bullshit, so your idea fails there, unfortunately =(
Vacation travel. Conventions. Businesses, including internet sales. If Arizona wants to imitate germany of the 30-40's, then let there be a cost to it. They are trying to do the equivalent of establish an internal passport. They cannot be allowed to succeed.
If you are NOT an illegal alien you have nothing to fear.As far as profiling, just because you put the word racial before it a bunch of pussies get their panties in a bunch....why don't you get this....the POLICE profile people; that is what they do, just like arresting and jailing people, that is what they fucking do,that is their job discription.JEEBUS! I'm a white, 49 yo gray beard hippy and have been profiled a time or two in my life, therefore I don't have a very healthy opinion of the cops or the fucking (in)justice system in this dipshit country, plus I have been a long haired liberal in this bright red state of Kansas, which is just another thing they would PROFILE me for.It is all part of the game.The thing I hate the most about this law,though I bye and large support it, is that it does nothing to stem the flow over the southeern border---PLUS, and more so all it will do is force the GD illegals to flee Arizona to TX,KS,CO,CAL,ETC...thus only passing the problem off to another State and Jurisdiction, forceing those states to pass their own similar laws.....can you say domino effect!!!
Is a driver's license enough? I haven't been asked to present a birth certificate in years.
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