Dean: Don't craft health care for single GOP vote
By David Monday Sep 07, 2009 10:00am
In a speech to Congress Wednesday, President Barack Obama may come out for a public health care option that would be triggered only if health insurance companies don't provide affordable solution in a predetermined time frame. One Republican Senator, Olympia Snowe, has expressed support for this idea. Gov. Howard Dean told Fox News' Chris Wallace that it was a mistake to craft a bill just to get a single Republican vote Sunday.
"The problem is it won't work. It doesn't add anything. If you're going to do that, just do the insurance reform," said Dean. "There's no point in spending $600 billion and giving it to the insurance industry. We know what they'll do with it. I'm hopeful he'll stick to his guns and we'll have the reform we were promised in the campaign."
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Doc Dean sticks to his six-shooters?
Alert the freaking media!
Sweet Jesus, I loves me some Howard Dean. He is about the only one I trust on health care reform anymore.
dr. dean should be chief of staff at the w.h....
always on point, and can make even fox listen....
but the way his administration has disrespected Gov. Dean is maybe the hardest thing I have had to deal with from this administration.
Both nominations for sec of health, Daschel and Sebelus, have down played the need for a "public option" and I don't think they would have made these comments w/out President's OK.
If they do not get Dean's support, they do not get mine. Plain and simple.
if Obama believes--as do many of my pre-pubescent students--that our species is destined to end on December 21, 2012? That might explain his laissez-faire attitude about the promises he made.
I wonder if Obama thinks We The People will continue to support him if he f**ks us over on health insurance reform? Or, maybe he really is just another Corporate shill, willing to sell his soul for obscene accumulations of wealth?
...but too many "progressives" bought the BS the GOP mouthpieces were selling and voted for that tepid as hell middle of the roader career politician Kerry instead.
Shame on you (you know who you are)!
According to a poster here at Crooksandliars, Sen. Kerry stated at his recent Town Hall Meeting in Somerville, Mass. that The Mass Plan would basically be the style plan that would end up being the health reform adopted by Congress and Obama.
Here is a VERY important article that was in yesterday's Berkshire Eagle regarding what is currently happening with The Mass Plan:
http://www.berkshireeagle.com/clarencefanto/c...
In the same paper was an article from The Wall Street Journal entitled, "Get In On the Health-Care ACTION!":
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1252185605467...
This is what we are facing with Obama's speech tomorrow night:
The Democrats/Obama have sold out to corporate America and to the Republican Party. We've already been told by Sen. Kerry that there is NO chance that the Senate will ever go along with a Public Option. Obama is even having to twist arms for a "trigger" for a Public Option!
The big health care insurers and big pharma have made a dirty deal with Obama and Congressional leaders to allow them four more years of soaking the American People with their for-profit "Just Say No" B.S. health insurance policies while 14,000 a day lose their insurance and others endure the heartache of bankruptcies/foreclosures due to unpayable medical bills.
H.R. 3200 will be MANDATED insurance with penalties and fines. Just like The Mass Plan that is currently going down in flames. I have personally spoken with countless individuals in Massachusetts who have told me that the "plan" they may fall under, according to "the connector" (and their IRS statements) is NOT affordable and the coverage has a high deductible (sometimes $5000!) and as a result these individuals decide to just pay the fine ($912/year) and go without health insurance! They say it's a matter of deciding, "Have the car fixed, eat food, pay the mortgage or pay the insurance premium".
Somebody needs to let Obama know, "THIS IS NOT CHOICE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!!"
As to the rotten "trigger" idea, people need to realize that the ONLY way it will be proven that the insurance corporations are NOT abiding by their "promises" to treat the American public fairly will be with expensive and lengthy court cases that may eventually have to wend their ways right up to The Supreme Court! Only when the Congress is TOLD that they must institute "the trigger" of a Public Option will that occur. Then we will be looking at ANOTHER period of time for that to be instituted!
If Obama signs any of these things into law this will be another rotten piece of legislation for the American public that would be right up there with The Patriot Act, The Military Commissions Act, the FISA legislation etc.
Every thinking person in every industrialized nation on Earth (except us apparently) believes that a Single Payer, Medicare for All system of health care is the ONLY system that will cover EVERY American with a choice of ANY doctor at a cost that would be AFFORDABLE because the insurance companies and their profits would be a thing of the past and the pool of people who are covered would be so large. That is how money is saved with Medicare.
Conyers/Weiner H.R. 676 is the ONLY health care reform that SHOULD be instituted in the United States.
But since the Congress and Obama have obviously been co-opted by the corporations we are not going to be seeing "justice for all". We're all going to get royally reamed instead.
And on that note, I'll leave you all with this "humorous" piece I just read in The New Yorker that made me weep:
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/2009/09/07/090...
Obama knows this is NOT what he was elected to do. He just doesn't care! He is a corporate fascist tool just like Baucus, Conrad and the rest of those SOB's.
In fact, they are WORSE than the repigs, because deep down, they know this shit is wrong!
is one of the few politicians who, when he opens his mouth, actually says something clear and substantial. That's why he had to be demonized many years ago. And that's why the powers that be (and wanna be) are demonizing Obama now.
and substantial?
He's being criticized for not standing up for his campaign promises.
He's being demonized b/c he's not a Republican, but he sure isn't fighting for the Democratic platform. The public option is a party plank.
Again, if Obama turns health reform into a mandated regressive tax and a corporate giveaway--even with triggers--he will lose a ton of support. A trigger is just an excuse to give billions to corporations for a few more years, and give them a little timeto come up with a new excuse.
He will not gain independent Republicans nor any of the rightwing fringe with these moves.
He was elected by progressives, and he tosses us under the bus at his own peril.
The President could ban abortions, out-law gay marriage, and pass out free machine guns and still not get one Republican vote!
Not only that, but booting the public option will energize the crazies on the right and cause good progressives to stay home in the next couple of elections.
Dance with the one who took you to the prom. Always a good strategy.
The House on Tuesday voted 242-181 to approve an operating rules package (H Res 5) that eliminates the Medicare trigger, which requires the president to submit a plan to contain Medicare costs if they reach a certain level, CQ Today reports. The trigger was approved as part of the 2003 Medicare law. Under the law, if 45% or more of the program's funding comes from general tax revenues for two consecutive years, the president must submit to Congress legislation that would slow spending over a seven-year period and make the program financially stable. The trigger went into effect for the first time last year
Yeah , they will protect the American people from their HC corporate donors....Sure , just like this ...call them 1.800.828.0498! Remind them of 1994 and then their job description.
So, essentially you're saying that Boosh tied his hands.
And Congress, just ate the jalepeno.
That's pronounced... Haleepeeno. Just so you know.
(wth)
Dance with the one who brung you. if not you're going to find yourself out in the cold.
"Reforms" don't even begin their 'phase in' until 2013. Clearly Obama made a deal with big pharma/insurance to ensure that meaningless health reform would be enacted only if they filled his campaign coffers in 2012. He is not only scr*wing health reform, he's scr*wing the phase-in date, at a time when the jobs are disappearing and premiums are rising astronomically. The people who are losing their jobs, people with pre-existing conditions, really most Americans - simply don't have the luxury of waiting 4+ years for whatever crumbs Obama throws their way just so he can get re-elected. Which he won't as he has so blatantly sold out that even that even the not so tuned-in are catching on.
If Obama screws this up, which Rahm is going to make sure is the case, then his presidency will be over! The wingnuts will continue to hate him and be emboldened, the progressives will dump him like a can of toxic waste, and the "centrists" will bail on him right and left, as they are stuck with a $912 bill for the right to not be able to afford health insurance.
We saw the complete destruction of the GOP in the last two elections. Now, the DLC is going to be crushed also. The bluedogs are the ones who will lose their seats. Rahm and the DLC Clinton flunkies cannot let go of the fact it isn't 1994 anymore, and corporate fascism was tried, and found to be rather unpallatable.
I hope this is the beginning of the end for our two party system. The people hate the psychotic repukes, and they are not going to vote bluedog and get the same bullshit.
If we think it's bad now, what till the fascist nutjobs on the Supreme Court rule to give corporations free speech rights in campaigns this week. Unlimited billions to push the Orwellean bullshit to an entirely new level. They'll have the wingnuts believing the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, and they'll be in the streets protesting that it be acknowledged.
So in Newt's reality most Americans DON'T want affordable health care....okay....
Clearly the only polls he was citing were FOX polls..
An industry for profit that stands on the backs of the sick , the suffering and the dying is immoral. Did Jesus demand people get health insurance before he healed them?
Yeah, but the good news is Jesus only had a $5.00 co-pay.
would be todays cost adjusted for inflation
Righties prefer simpletons like the winking troglodite Sarah Plain, who has the vocabulary of a 10 year old...
From Tom Servo:
"An industry for profit that stands on the backs of the sick , the suffering and the dying is immoral. Did Jesus demand people get health insurance before he healed them?"
It's odd that we will never hear this from the so-called "Christians" among us such as Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, Barack and Michelle Obama etc.
Newties look near the end?...as if he was saying to Chris "...why are you letting this guy Dean speak?" Priceless.
Notice all the demands the Republicans are putting on Obama are things they did NOT apply to Bush? They gave Bush free reign to do anything
I seem to recall the proto fascist Patriot Act was rammed through, and countles examples of radial right wing policies were rammed through, despite protests of the american people or the Democrats..
But now that a Democrat is in power, the Republicans are like "Whoa, slow down, you can't pass that LIBERAL legislation!"
I gurentee you next time we have a Republican in office, they will be back to ramming through right wing policies and bills, despite objections from Democrats or the public...
...actually gave Bush free reign himself.
Obama voted to re-authorise (Chimpy's patriot act).
and voted for immunity for the wiretappers who (helped The Chimpster) bug our phones and internet. (whil'st the tapping continues)
and he voted for a Paulson/Chimpster bankster bailout with no oversite.
and he voted to give Chimpster all the war money the pentagon ever asked for. (and didnt cut the pentagons budget one single dime) after he was elected...
Open your eyes man! (Obama has sucked for three years ever since he was a senator) and is now holding the reigns.
Can we trade Obama in for Dean?
There is NOTHING good about right wingers or the present day Republican Party.....
It does not matter what Democratic Party member is in power with these people....they are attempting to destroy the presidency of Obama like they did with Clinton before....
Right wingers will do anything to destroy Obama even as they lost the election so badly....Right wingers see blood right now and are going to continue this until they get the FASCIST America they seek....
...and how many people will die, suffer, and face financial ruin while we wait for the private insurance companies to do what they could have done yesterday? If the private insurance companies are given four years to change their policies, I think we can feel confident that it will take them four years to do anything. How much profit will they earn by postponing the changes we need now?
The trigger is simply a way for gutless legislators to postpone making hard decisions. It implies change without providing it.
Dean is one of the few prominent voices of reason in this debate. The private insurance companies aren't the solution...they just aren't.
Pretending they can be is one of the greatest failings of the Obama approach to reform. I hope he stands up (finally) for genuine reform, but I am not optimistic.
Another problem with the "trigger option" is that it will give repugs more time to spread their lies and disinformation about the public option.
they will continue as is for 4 years while spending those 4 years trying to figure out new loopholes and while buying politicians to change the legislation 4 years out.
We are not fighting stupid people. The corporations use the stupid people to help stir up a smoke screen, but they have a plan, a plan b, and the money to pursue them. They literally have billions at stake, and they aren't going to give them up without a gun fight.
And Obama's not even bringing a knife.
... and simply remove the trigger.
They won't have to. The conditions that pull the trigger will be so ambiguous and poorly defined that it will never come into play. And if it does, the insurance corporations will defeat it with legal challenges and a sympathetic Supreme Court.
This is exactly my take on it. 1 week before the triggers are to kick in a suit will be filed and it will take 10 years to wend its way through the court system and chances are that somewhere in that period of time an administration will come in that will quietly remove the triggers "in the interest of removing a distraction from important things". A trigger is just a way to say "don't worry, the system will never change"
"I don't think so". Ahh Newt, ya do stick to your guns don'tcha?
In other words, Hell No! It doesn't matter what Obama does.
They'll vilify it and obstruct it no matter what.
Newt's a liar.
Don't craft health care for single GOP vote?
It's already too late ... especially since a bunch of Dems are actually card carrying members of the GOP.
Obama has been a spineless jellyfish. He does'nt have the stomach to fix this country and he has flipped on almost every promise.Its time for the liberal websites to let him know we are going to push for a new democratic president to represent us.I'm tired of these Republican lite Democrats saying they represent the values of the party.
what 'promises' has he flipped on?
the "I wont appoint any lobbyists" thing?
"No lobbyists in my administration" I think he said.
anything else. i heard people say he said that i need to check for myself.
No lobbyists in my white house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SlBlvirqA0
personally i never look at that as an absolute but more of a nuance. keeping lobbyists
connections out of the white house virtually impossible....reducing the number and limiting the power/decision making is more realistic. anything else obama flip on? i know people want to fault him for everything. i'm not suggesting you but others. the BUSH legacy and the division in this country is a much larger challenge than people understand. it's obama's intention to bring "change" to those challenges. people need to be involved he can't/won't do it on his own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ
i recall the claims regarding taking PAC/special interests money. i need to see/hear reference about absolutely no lobbyists in my administration. i don't recall that.
Obama is a decider too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0D3IWl37ng&NR=1
Obama lies about health care! ...watch him flip flop! (single payer or not)...?!?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmUF7sWop_Y&fe...
Just who would you like to see as Prez?
...with Dennis Kuchinich as vice president...
Cynthia McKinney as secretary of state...Jesse Ventura as National security advisor...
Bernanke out of the picture...
Timmy Geithner/Hank Paulson in jail...
I dunno, perhaps someone besides the (two choices) that mainstream media gives us?
idiot.
If you want more unregulated nightmare then keep pushing that fool.
...Ron Paul would have thousands of corporations dumping cash into his campain coffers.
(because he would supposedly unregulate them)
I dont think you play the "follow the money game very well Symes...
pay much attention to what he has said Milquetoast.
His whole thing is free market deregulation.
Or did you miss that?
...If Ron Pauls "whole thing" is deregulation of free markets
...why arent the corporations, banks, and wallstreeters, (who would benefit from such deregulations) donating to his campaign?
http://www.ronpaul.com/2008-11-10/ron-paul-wh...
If you are going to push a person as President at least know what he stands for.
big corporations donate to Democrats and Republicans, ...not libertarians.
so much for your "unregulated Nightmare" theory.
because even they know that Libertarianism is suicide?
Probably.
Libertarianism is the evil twin of Anarchism and just as unworkable.
If you think deregulating and dismantling the laws that keep the sharks at bay are a good idea then what more is there to say to you?
So much for your simplistic political views.
BTW - Did you even read the words of RP himself that I linked to?
You are denying what he in that article says himself.
How dumb is that?
Like I said, if your argument is that RP is not all about deregulation you don't know anything about what RP is about.
the more "regulations" congress passes, the more corporations seem to benefit?
I see regulations differently than you do.
I see corporate regulations as a way to "get around" Laws.
I also wouldnt lump regulation and law together like you do.
So these last 30 years of deregulation has been a boon on society and good for everyone?
Oh well, what more is to be expected from RP supporters anyway? Certainly not any real acknowledgment of reality.
...that deregulates. is still...a regulation.
what ever happened to laws that made stealing illegal (wall st.)
or laws that say ponzi schemes are illegal? (fed reserve)
...or laws to prevent corporations from taking over our govt and influencing our foreign policy? (oil wars)?
"regulations" make it all legal....and
this dicussion is crazy because we dont even have "free" market capitalism anymore!!!
Like I said, what's the point of arguing with a Libertarian?
Hell, you post here on a progressive blog, are a conservative (Libertarianism is conservative by definition) and as far as I can tell you don't even know what the ideology you push is actually about (let alone how the economy works).
Deregulation is NOT regulation, it is DEregulation (notice the prefix), it is the removal of regulation, the loosening of controls, the reduction of laws.
Go back to school and pay attention this time for Gods sake!
.... they know he has no shot at winning a Presidential election.
Corps and their lobbyists want a ROI.
Where is the ROI on an unelectable candidate?
ROI is Return on Investment, btw.
...the lack of "payola going to the libertarian party in the first place.
democrats=republicans (behind the scenes)
Of course it's not that your ideas are unworkable and border on the lunatic, it's that you are persecuted and held down by the man!
Righto there chum.
getting bribes?
The Libertarian party doesn't get any corporate payola because they know Libertarians have a 0.001% chance of being elected anywhere. Hell, even here in TX they don't get elected (much if at all), do they?
are unregulated now. That's most of the problem.
And RP would remove what little regulation is left to keep them all in check.
Milkbone here doesn't seem to think that's such a bad idea.
It's obvious that you'll never be happy with Obama no matter what he does.
Oh, and I don't believe your secondary choices. Maybe DK, but the other two are bs.
I can just see a RP Prez. And how happy you'd be with his flip flopping all over the place. Don't for a second doubt that he wouldn't.
nice chattin with ya. adios.
...being happy with Obama "no matter what he does"
He's still got over 3 years to go.
If you really think Rop Paul would be better, geeeezzzzz.
You'd be in for a real disappointment. But you already know that, don't you?
Folks that read, knew going in, that he was more of a centrist than a leftest. Sounds like you bought into the FOX hype of him being the most liberal Senator since the beginning of time.
Real adult leftists know they will not get everything they want out of him, but he is still 1000 times better than what we had.
He ran on a bi-partisan platform and he had to try. Lets see if he now realizes that is a "dry hole".
I'm waiting until the Wed speech before I am ready to give up on him.
BTW, milquetoast, can you give me one example of a government working on Libertarian form of government. We are already the most libertarian of any industrialized country. Is it working for you?
..."the most libertarian of any industrialized country." ...yer crazy.
Our country is fascist. Govt is run by banks and global corporations.
our politicians are installed by the people who own the military, energy, pharma, and agri-industrial complexeseseseses...
I' sorry for assuming you were happy with Obama "no matter what he does"
but I still think everything he does "sucks"
Dean?
He shoulda been Prez 5 years ago anyway.
...I am afraid I would cry like a little schoolgirl.
he would prefer a "single payer" system but that's not a realistic immediate option according to his people/cabinet. i'm not sure he should have shown that hand if you will.... so quickly. his intentions and how a democracy works is very different. the "public option" may be the transition to "single payer". i believe people are underestimating how tough this health care ins. legislation has become. saying he's lying is pretty tough stuff. if one is logical positives are mentioned with negatives. has obama done anything positive or is the glass only/always half full?
You make statements that are reminiscent of a wingnut republican!
I am as frustrated as everyone else, but he also promised, multiple times to be bi-partisan. He had to try and try he has.
However, not to recognize the futility of this now, is not too bright, and I still think this is a bright guy.
Let's see what he has to say to congress on Wed before we totally give up on him.
and as compromising away one's core principles ane beliefs...
The more Democrats want to be bipartisan, the more Republicans will see weakness and smell blood....
This is bloodsport to the Republicans and all their KKK-like Followers....Bipartisanship is seen as a weakness rather than strength to the GOP.....
....agreeing to do things their way.
Still, I think a lot of people are tired of this polarization and listened to his campaign promises of bi-partisanship.
I still say that he had to try.
However, even the blind can see there is no compromise in the radicalized right and there won't be as long as Beck, Rush, and their ilk have control of the public airwaves. These so called "patriots" are calling for the over-throw of our government. If that is not seditious behaviour, I guess I do not know what is.
some people have bought into the right's build up of obama. they built him up so it would be very noticeable even for the simpletons. he's trying to "change" the division/fragmentation in this country. some people suffer from premature ejxculation. it's early and if you peel the layers he's trying to accomplish his intentions. he's pragmatic and seems to be a centrist. no one can keep all their "promises" in public office.
The trigger will give the insurance companies four years to use the subsidy money to lobby our Congress to decide in four years that nothing should be done.
By the way, doesn't Dean know that Axelrod came out this morning on the AP and said that the public option is not essential? I wish I had his optimism.
You know it is time to start GETTING Into the FACES of Right-Wingers and taking them on, and not being so afraid of their physical threats.....
Right wingers need to be confronted, and yes, even getting into their face and telling them off and loudly....and often...
MOST tmes if you get right back in the face of a blustering shouting right winger, they will back down- because these people are bullies, and EVERY bully is a coward...
Remember when Phil Donahue stood his ground with Billo? Billo crumbled!
But there is always the chance youll run into the true right wing psycho who will just pull out a gun and kill you on the spot- so be careful!
Many of these right wingers are the ones who didn't do well in school and received bad grades yet are now know-it-all's....
When I see these right wing lunatics in action I am reminded of the troublemakers in all of my grade-middle-high school years.
I view the present day GOP as the KKK Republicans, which is removed, but also consistent with the Republican Party from the Goldwater-Reagan-Gingrich-? years....
The corporate media which is racist and classist shares much blame here and at great fault for the corrosive nature of the present day political discourse....The corporate media foments and feeds into the hate mongerers on the right and their constant b.s....Right wingers continue to make up phony arguments and the media allows it and play along...
And no, there is no equal on the "left side" to the violent tones of the right wingers in America who have and will continue to use violence as a means to their politcal-economic ends...
One cannot compromise with the violent-KKK Right-Wing who claim to be Christians and Republicans....These people are irrational...
If Obama came out and said "It is a beautiful morning" the righties will find something to scream about it.
Its our elected officials we need to get in the face of and end their servatude of corporate lobbyists.
It is okay at this point in time to say you hate these people because these right wingers are a real threat to civil and democratic society......and the future of America...even as their so-called "logic" suggests otherwise...
Just read that Obama considers public optional. Time for Dr. Dean or Al Gore to start running for prez in 2012
Howard Dean was the best canidate in 2004 and he still is now. Look at how he brought about the 50 state strategy. Smart. Then after being elected, Obama pushed him out of the Democratic leadership. Stupid. Now the party has completely gone belly up for the lack of leadership. The White House has no coherent message and is compromising against themselves. I know its only been 8 months, but they seem completly incompetent.
I completely agree with everything you just said.
Iowa for Kerry and Iowa for Obama....
Read John MacArthur's book, "You Can't be President" and one gets a great understanding about the anti-Dean mentality within the Democratic Party elite political structure.....
There were a lot of questionable plays against Dean in the 2004 primary in Iowa....
Dean helped to motivate the grassroot base in 2004 who then supported Kerry and then Obama in 2008.
The Dems have skillfully co-opted the left and the grassroots including the antiwar movement....
To paraphrase Donna Summer, "Enough is Enough!" Enough is Enough with the Democratic Party, but, do you want to give it back to the KKK Republicans? Because that is a risk you take here!
..... 50 state strategy that got Obama elected.
you could be correct with some of your comments but i think you could be mistaken. i think completely incompetent is over the top.
chickens running around with their heads cut off. They ran a great campaign. Too bad they can't seem to run the White House as effectively.
that's coo but i disagree. trying to manage two war fronts, iran,n.korea, FDIC, unemployment,GITMO, record recession, automaker bailout, financial bailout,record residential/commercial foreclosures,health care ins. reform....what BUSH handed over to obama can't be over looked/underestimated. every where obama steps he gets BUSH's shxt on his shoes. this legacy would have been/is seriously challenging for anyone.
to start a civil war in the Democratic Party. He and his crappy administration have been outmaneuvered left and right by the Cons and now the Democratic Party is about to implode because of it. Thanks a lot Obama, ya' dickhead!!
"dickhead" that's disrepectful but whatever.
You sound like a righty and somewhat of a dh yourself.
wow with that type of chatter i guess you may be your correct we could have a "civil war". the (d) party's strength is also their potential weakness.
From Kelly's Hero's.
"What's with all the negative vibes man?"
Ya gotta luv Donald Sutherland in that roll.
Constituent, I'm with you bud. You're right.
Dean agreed to step down after one term.
Video link
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=85...
Video here too (I looked there second - edit)
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/gib...
Claims Obama will mention public option. Gibbs dodged when Stephanopoulos tried to pin him down on if it is the "robust" or "watered-down" one, that was the "like Medicare payment fees" follow-up.
Gibbs was consistent on not revealing the content of the speech, but taunting that Obama would make his view on public option clear in it. He also did not take the bait on "is it essential?" follow-ups, simply asserting it was good to have. That should mean Obama is going to stop short of threatening a veto if it doesn't have one, but doesn't say what kind of one he does want to see.
Could have been worse.
I bet the administration is in windsock mode on public feedback. They want to see if the public has the progressive's back on the robust option vs. the watered down one. How much of the public do you think understands that trade-off?
The Cons start the fight over the public option and then stand back and say "look, the Dems are fighting over the public option." This is all because Obama wants to be best friends with the Cons.
The Obama administration and the Dems have been outmaneuvered by the Cons once again. God, I hate my party.
under the bus
to throw Dr. Dean under the bus since he first ran for president. They've managed to clip him a few times with the bumper but they haven't run him over yet. Thank god!!
When Con presidents do things the Left doesn't like, we try to defeat them. When Cons don't like what a Dem president does, they threaten the country with revolution.
'Bout sums it up.
But don't forget threatening the life of people they disagree with, assassination seems to be A-OK with those fools.
get arrested for anything.
I would vote for Howard Dean for President (again) in a heartbeat.
Too late.
We already crafted health care for a single GOP vote
Otherwise we'd be debating single-payer.
What is "Single Payer"???????????????
It's a model based on the Netherlands medical system.
Private doctors and hospitals, the government pays the tab from the tax taken to cover it.
I know, you want to yell about no more taxation.
Let's look at it rationally first:
You already pay 22% if you are middle class, plus 6% for SSI, plus your state income tax, PLUS your health insurance premium.
Chances are that is already running you near 40-45% of your base income as is, so you already pay almost as much as a Nederlander (and certainly more than I do living in the UK making 3-4x a US middle class income) in order to receive some of the worlds most mediocre health care (#36 on the WHO survey).
If done right, like in the Netherlands, the government just pays the bill no questions. You get to choose your own doctor. The doctor doesn't need a full staff to run and rerun refused claims and you won't have to lose your house when you get cancer.
Win win for everyone.
Inviting Howard Dean on the propaganda network takes the wind out of the smelly sails. Truth and reason HURT! They are leading the morons in this country to the slough, and they want no part of an honest debate.
Good for Governor Dean...AGAIN!! You don't mess with this man! He tells it like it is...and they don't like that message one bit!
Oh wait, I forgot. He screamed once.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHWbsvgQUE
They started with triggers it failed then they went way off with co-ops. Now they have dropped co-ops and are back to the trigger makeing the trigger look better then before.
Honesly Obama has all but lost my vote at this point if he can be so easily be pushed around when he has the most power what going to happen later on when his power weakens.
This is equivalent to a "show trial."
WTF!!!
Why would you craft health care reform around one republican vote?
There are 300 million people in America! Not One!
republicanism is a mental illness!
?
Why didd C&L carry this thread over from yesterday?
... and now has returned to us on the front page.
if pres obama keeps on waffling, i say bring dr dean back.... always on point, and very smart.... no bs....
or dr dean should be chief of staff.....
if obama goes with the trigger and doesn't come out for the public option now while he has the most support any democratic president ever will have to accomplish this goal, i will support a progressive challenger to his running in 2012.
power through fixed elections. I can hear them cringing, now. No, wait, that's laughing I hear.
i've had it watching wall street and banks get bailed out, health insurance companies buy elected officials and the msm, while middle america gets hosed yet again.
i'll either sit on my hands next election, no volunteerism, no money or i'll support a progressive like dr. dean.
These Racist Nazis want only one thing to be on their knees doing what they do best salivating on the zippers of their contributors.
Wacko Racist Nazis are not about America it is about the self serving interest of the Socialized CAPITALIST (remember the scum bags that Privatize the PROFITS and SOCIALIZE the LOSSES then complain because they have to pay the money back).
SCREW every Racist Nazi Christian (RNC) on the HILL give NO quarter, offer them a razor Blade Instructions on how to SLASH their WRISTS correctly and a Cheering section.
SLASH YOUR WRISTS SLASH YOUR WRISTS SLASH YOUR WRISTS
If Obama sells us out or caves...again...primary him, and Howard Dean would be the perfect choice.
He should run again. I still believe he has a powerfull voice in the party and won't take any shit from the right! He is extremely intelligent and carries himself well underfire! I can only hope he feels he should run again, Because IMO O'bama sold himself for a $ bill thanks to Rahm. Another go-round of snatching defeat fromn the jaws of victory.
Dean Should Run Against O'bama next.
Actually, I've been thinking Dean could easily mount a challenge to Obama, unless he steps up to the plate on medical insurance reform.
But refering to him as O'bama is not going to help the case.
I think Dean stood up quite well aganst the FOX and the Gingrich.
Why did Obama and Emmanuel crap on Dean ? He's the best their is on healthcare reform .
Lets start a new party trying to repair the DEMOCRATIC party will take too long. New party NO BLOODY BLUE DOGS. Mr Dean you could be the one that wrights the new party by-laws.
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