Cain, Bachmann Refuse to Say Romney Is Christian
Appearing on CNN Sunday, both Republican presidential candidates Herman Cain and Michele Bachmann repeatedly dodged questions on whether fellow candidate Mitt Romney was a Christian.
Dallas pastor Dr. Robert Jeffress, who introduced Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry at Friday's Values Voter Summit, has said that Romney is not qualified to be president because "Mormonism is a cult."
CNN's Candy Crowley asked Cain and Bachmann if they agreed that Romney was not a Christian.
"I'm not running for theologian in chief," Cain declared. "I'm a lifelong Christian. And what that means is that one of my guiding principles for decisions I make is I start with 'do the right thing.' I'm not getting into that controversy."
"But it will still beg the question that you dodged a direct question: Is Mitt Romney not a Christian?" Crowley asked.
"He's a Mormon, that much I know," Cain replied. "I am not going to do an analysis of Mormonism versus Christianity for the sake of answering that. I'm not getting into that..."
"Even knowing that it will looking like you are dodging it?" Crowley wondered.
"If that's what it looks like, I'm dodging it because it's not going to help us boost this economy and you know it," Cain said, adding that someone's religion was a "valid concern" when selecting a president.
Crowley later posed the same question to Bachmann.
"We have religious tolerance," the Minnesota Republican explained. "We understand that people have different views on their faith, and I have a very sincerely held view on faith and I think we just leave it at that."
"You know that by not answering the direct question -- 'Do you think you think that Mitt Romney is a Christian?' -- you leave open the possibility that people are going to say you dodged a direct question?" Crowley noted.
"No, I think what the real focus is here, again, that on religious tolerance," Bachmann argued. "That's really what this is about."
being asked of me by a Catholic nun as part of my Confirmation studies. (Interestingly, it was sprung on me as a 'gotcha question', because I didn't recall any learning about Mormonism during catechism classes.) So when I responded, "Yes, I guess so" (figuring that Jesus was all loving and inclusive), I was rather surprised by her rebuke.
As I've gotten older, of course, I've learned not to give a flying fuck about which ISB people worship, though I have occasionally thought of going to Utah with a bunch of explosives to do gold mining in the desert...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
You don't need explosives, just a hat. The gold will find its way in eventually.
... make explosions in the desert. There are many innocent little animals who live there underground who would be injured and killed.
OH NOES!!!! I'll bet John Huntsman haz a sad.
me-oww!
Only As long as your Religion is Christian or a Fundamentalist Christian nut case.
Donaldd
what do you expect from bachmann, she is in
complete denial that she is a fag hag to her husband.
i am gay so i am comfortable calling her what she is.
Uncle Tom and Crazy Eyes
Hurl ~~~~~~
I love GOP infighting! Each of these ass-hats is proving time and again that they are nothing but whack jobs who are not electable. If this crop of candidates is the best the Republicans have to offer, Obama doesn't have a thing to worry about. Bring it on!
for the Bush City's . . (tent citys) who still have a flag and pic of Boosh on their tent entrances.
Obama's gonna have to lose this one all on his own ..
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
it he might not even run. Of course being a rumour and all you know how things are on the intertubes.
bearded man in the sky they worship....
“Why not go out on a limb? That’s where the fruit is.”
-Will Rogers
That remark alone tells us Cain thinks Christianity and Mormonism are two different things ..
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
My predisposition: I am a mainline (traditional) Christian, and I'm also a committed progressive Democrat.
Mormonism and Christianity are two different religions, perhaps as different as Judaism and Christianity if the divinity of Jesus is considered.
What the author of this post, trying to play on religious intolerance by two Christian Republicans and their kowtowing to Conservative Christians, has missed is the stupidity of Crowley's question in the first place.
At the heart of the matter:
Mormons are not Christians
Christians are not Mormons
So what?
Mormon theology does not say that Mormons are Christians. Mormonism is decidedly not another Protestant branch of Christianity. Both Mormons and Christians would agree on that.
Christian theology does not reference Mormonism, since the place of Jesus Christ in the lives of Christians was defined long before Mormonism came along, but this theology does say by inference that since Mormonism has changed the definition of the Jesus Christ, Mormonism is not Christianity. They do share some values.
As to the "pastor" stating that Romney is not qualified to be President because "Mormonism is a cult" (which by some classic definitions of what the word "cult" actually means is true), what would he say if the Republican nominee chooses Eric Cantor for VP?
Does belonging to a cultic or non-Christian religion disqualify someone from being President? That is what I want answered here, for the sake of the truth.
I look out the window - what do I see
I see a golden calf pointing - back at me ~J.R. Robertson
So why do they call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? What is Jesus, their mascot?
Do Mormons say they are not Christians?
I'm neither Christian or Mormon, so I am curious.
The whole business of not saying someone is a Christian is weird to me. Shouldn't the normal response to anyone's assertion of Christian faith be, in so many words "I don't know what is in his heart... he claims to be a Christian, but that's between him and God."
How do Christians claim to know if other people are Christians? Even if those other people are sitting right next to them in church? I really don't get it. I hear Christians distinguish all the time between church membership and being saved or having true faith. Wouldn't a sensible Christian say he or she doesn't know if ANY politician is a Christian or not?
That's different from asking is he a "Catholic" or is he a "Methodist", of course. Those are presumably answerable questions, based on behavior and payment of dues and the like.
Christianity is very mysterious to me.
Mormons aren't Christians any more than Muslims are Christians. Both believe in multiple prophets are Jesus was just one of them. Neither believe in the Trinity.
Most people I know who say they're Christians, sure aren't Christ like.
Flaco
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is.
Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian -- in spite of all his claims that he is Christian.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
It's not very interesting what non-Mormons think about the Christianity of Mormons. What matters to me is " What do Mormons think?"
Do they, or do they not, consider themselves to be Christians? If not, what's with the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" as their name?
And if they consider themselves to be Christians, frankly, that's good enough for this non-Christian, since the only thing we can ever do is take someone's word for it. If a Baptist tells me he's a Christian, I'm in no position to argue with him. If a Mormon makes the same assertion, I"m not arguing with him.
But do Mormon's make the claim? Do they make it, but shade it? Just curious.
Of course Mormons say they are Christian. Here for example is one such Mormon voice.
http://lds.org/new-era/1998/05/are-mormons-ch...
So for a nonChristian like myself this whole issue is just silly. I certainly don't give a rat's ass if one Christian says that someone else's Christianity doesn't measure up. Hey guess what? Your failure to believe in their Latter Day Saints probably gets them all in a tizzy too.
Sorry I wasted my time researching it.
I still say that you probably don't know if the Baptist, Catholic, Unitarian or Mormon sitting next to you is a Christian or not, because all you've ever got to go on is their words, even when they claim they are. But hey, I don't understand how Christianity works anyway, so that's your problem, not mine.
" I look at religion the same way I look at pizza toppings. Some people believe pepperoni is the supreme topping, others on the other-hand believe sausage is god. When you look at the big picture, and really think about it--all toppings are equal in the eyes of pizza."
"With the exception of course to vegetarian toppings. those toppings are just unnatural."
"Some people choose those unnatural toppings."
First they ignore us..then they ridicule us..now they are feeding us chicken crap- sign my petition:
http://www.change.org/petitions/fda-stop-feed...
www.ickenittlepost.com
I thought they just did this to a black Christian. He is not one of us. Us Christians that execute people and demonize gays. Us Christians are about loving, Mormons love two many.
is intended to be a factual statement
Or three many, or four many, or...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Is this the Republican response to Obama or something . . "See, we can run a Black Man too" type of thing?
They right has been running on bullshit for so long, that after 30 years of undeniable success - despite the horrid track record of their policies - the lunacy of their ideology has/is being exposed for everyone to see.
They can't - nor do they even try, to hide it anymore.
Having gone so far to the right that Hitler looks like a lib to these nutjobs, the only thing left to do is stand back and watch them hurl themselves upon the trash heap of history.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
and you too can make it . . the skies the limit
That of course as we now know was a complete farce.
The GOP wrestling federation...
Rowdy Romney takes on Cain the Crusher while "Crazy Eyes" Bachmann picks up a folding chair...
It's all WWF up in the GOP hizouse.
2012 is so in the bag.
The correct answer was: Ms. Crowley, it doesn't matter what ones religion is or lack of religion, as the Constitution clearly states that there shall be no religious test for office.
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
They would never say that, because that is not what they believe.
So this is the "Judge not, least ye be Judged" crowd?
2012 is going to be easy...
There's a shocker.
Can't wait for the skeletons to come flying out of her (and her husband's) "closet."
Cain and Bachmann can call themselves "Christian" till hell freezes over. But every decent citizen in this nation knows that God vomits when He thinks on these ChristoRepublican lizards.
Case closed.
Ignorance is parent to religion.
Religion is parent to Hate.
Remember Matthew Shepard:
http://vimeo.com/fuksnickityClam/matthew
They can't even decide if they're christian or christian enough to be called christian. If only elections were that easy.
its funny how the right had a fit about larry odonnell asking cain about something in his book, but doesnt say anything about candys dumbass question about religion. either one of those morons could have said church and state and been done withit. we are so screwed
warren mosler for president
Man alive, did I just write that headline?
Seriously, though, I don't think it's all that bad to dodge that question. It's a stupid question designed to create rancor and division for its own sake. I gotta admit, I actually agree with Godfather Cain on this point:
Who cares whether Mormonism is properly regarded as a sect of Christianity or another religion altogether. Yes, a candidate's religion is a valid consideration for voters, but whether Mormonism qualifies as Christian is not.
And even the Maladjusted Minnesota Moron got something right (even if she's lying about it). What really matters is our commitment to religious tolerance and freedom, not whether Mormons are properly categorized as Christian.
Everyone is equally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Wasn't that once self evident?
as much as i dislike cain and especially bachmann, i think they both handled this in a reasonable manner. why is this news here at C&L? other than proof that MB is not a lunatic 100% of the time. hurts me to say it...
It's fun when they get hoisted on their own MSM petard isn't it.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
knows they will not vote for a Mormon.
I was at a PTA meeting a while back, the town's high school valedictorian that year was a Mormon. That meant the religious part of graduation would be delivered by someone from her church, a Mormon.
The Evangelicals demanded that there be a second graduation ceremony with a Christian service.
Nice, huh.
But, but, mormonism IS a cult. So is bible baptist. So is catholic. So is any religion you can think of. This is just stupid...
Constitutionally, one's religion or even lack of being a member of a religion, is NOT a valid consideration for voters. For a party and a movement that claims to "love" the Constitution, they sure to do enjoy ignoring it.
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
The only reason I care about this is because I like to see these asswipes argue about whose god is better.
;)
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
One of them should have answered Candy like this; "Are you the worst interviewer on the Tee Vee or just the second worst interviewer? If you don't answer do care that it looks like you are dodging the question?"
They don’t want to answer because they truly DON’T KNOW
Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. It's not.
- Dr. Suess
Ahhh... ahem!... well...., the fairies, gremlins and goblins Mitt believes in are different than the fairies, gremlins and goblins we believe in. His are eeeeevillllll, ours are good. Hehe... understand? Ok...please don't hurt me....hehe... bye.
Their homeworld was a place called Earth, located in an uninteresting part of the galaxy. They had an expression: pride goeth before a fall. Their pride was their undoing. I know. I was there....They did not listen, of course. Arrogant men never do.
Omigod! Now that's going too far!
Ed-words
amen
Ed-words
they believe in religious tolerance except for Rev. Wright. Uh huh, I hear ya!
HE'S BLACK,GUILT BY ASSOCIATION ONLY APPLIES TO OBAMA
"Cain, Bachmann Refuse to Say Romney Is Christian"
Implying that they don't believe Romney is Christian...
...but I don't believe Cain or Bachmann are Christian, so who gives a damn?
I think I'm going to start calling Christians The Church of Jesus Christ, Latter Day Jews - makes as much sense and the Jews would love it. Also Hunstman has distanced himself from the Church and I appreciate that in a Presidential candidate. There should be no religious test for public office and that's codified, but I have a religious test for my vote and it says no religious zealots.
given that all religions are a human invention...and very cult like...
...over religion, and as revealing as such a fight might be about the hypocrisy of the GOP candidates in their selective invocation of the notion of "religious tolerance," by insisting that some candidates opine on whether the religion of another candidate qualifies as being "Christian" or not, the media is fueling a toxic, religiously bigoted, unconstitutional and already much too widespread idea. That is, the media is feeding the idea that a candidate's religious identity as a Christian is a valid test of qualification for a presidential candidate.
I am no fan of either Bachmann or Cain (or of any other Republican), but I have to say I would have been more alarmed had either of them actually answered this question than I am by the fact that they demurred. Irrespective of what either candidate may actually think regarding whether or not Mormons are also Christians, it would be improper for any candidate to comment one way or the other.
Mark P. Kessinger
New York, New York
I don't want to live around, or be ruled by these idiotic theocrats for whom intellectual development ceased in the 9th century. These are the same mental midgets that used to argue about how many angels would fit on the head of pin.
And here's a hint. 0. There is no room on the head of a pin for angels because that's where the unicorns sleep.
Ladies and gentlemen, the previous statement summarizes the entire logical foundation of religious thinking. No proof is needed for any assertion, one only needs the charisma to make other intellectually challenged dolts believe what you say.
while ignoring the crust and sauce,
like he always does.
maybe if he focused more on the crust and sauce
he would not be in this mess
as it would have taught him the value of balance,
especially when an answer is needed to a pointed question:
is it the toppings?
or the crust?
or the sauce?
it is all three!
it is all three, cain, all three.
the pizza holy trinity
and it requires balance.
if he were smart, he would answer all his questions in terms of making pizza.
>i like to watch<
WE ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION !!!!
One wishes idiots would stop the conflation.
Peter Everts
When Jefrress introduced Rick Perry, this is what he said:
He speaks as if the two are mutually exclusive. Oh, wait...
was Joe Smith's way of getting teen poontang, Christianity, Islam and Judaism are no better. Delusion built on fear, ignorance and control. Religion is stupidity on a grand scale.
Peter Everts
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