Biden: Gitmo detainees won't be released in U.S.

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Vice president Joe Biden told CBS that he didn't expect detainees held at Guantanamo Bay to be released inside the U.S. "We won't release people inside the United States because all but one, I believe, is not an American citizen," said Biden.



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Huh? And while we're here, What about Padilla, his rights were fucked right off of him.

as the republicans and are still cowards in front of the press.

It could easily be read as a general statement, in response to the Republican claim that released detainees will be roaming American streets. It doesn't necessarily rule out that one guy.

...does that mean that for all intents and purposes renditioning continues? Does side-stepping of our legal system continue?

"We won't release people inside the United States because all but one, I believe, is not an American citizen,.." Barak, Joe, most of us recognize a bullshit rationalization when we hear one.

BTW, I think Obama's supporting Bush's position on illegal spying on American's is also bullshit, and scary as hell. Saw that coming with the Obama FISA vote:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/01/obam...

Obama keeps stating that related to torture the "Army Field Manual" would be a good place to start.

But check out this article and what THE ARMY FIELD MANUAL has actually become:

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/122341/

Same package, new wrapping?

God, I hope not. But that's the way it's looking.

the word is not final. this is stuff that the smarter Obama knows that the press and america must be weaned off of.

AFM

Yeah, I read that. It just codifies atrocity as an acceptable Standard Operating Procedure. It's remeniscent of the process the Germans went through as the country became aculturated to naziism. Crimes and atrocities gradually became legal and, in some cases, even obligatory under German law, as if doing so gave these things legitimacy. But, the "I was only following legal orders" or, "it was perectly legal" or, "I was only obeying the law" defenses proved not to be acceptable in legitimate tribunals or courts of law. If anybody in the military or government thinks that because an act that likely shocks the conscience of the average reasonable person is described, as a set of instructions, in a document like the Army Field Manual will exonerate them, especially an international court, they are betting on the wrong horse.

Wait, what rendition? Rendition would mean that we keep them behind bars but send them to a prison offshore. Biden is saying that if a judge orders the victims released, then they won't be released - as in, given their freedom into the U.S. Biden says that they'll either be returned to their countries of origin, or he mentions that Europe may be accepting some of those detainees. If those detainees are found guilty, so far there's no mention that they'll be put anywhere except in an American prison. I don't see what the issue is here.

...great. But what isn't explicitly stated is that they are going to be released with a clean bill of health, as free persons. And, if they are returned to their countries of origin, that's probably going to be to other prisons that are run by or under the influence of the US, like the equally hellish Baghram prison. If we cannot produce evidence of criminality, suitable for criminal prosecutions in our own courts, then they must be freed, and not transferred as perpetual prisoners to other prisons, especially if it can be reasonably assumed that they are going to be as ill-treated as they were under the Bush regime.

I accept that some small handful of the people still held are as bad as the worst people of our own citizens that we have locked in our maximum security prisons. But, Clinton and crew gave us all a good lesson in how to prosecute guys like them, and do so using the legal system that existed prior to 9/11. His Administration put them away for life without parole, violating none of the rights of the accused in the process. We have people in custody, and if we hold them on legitimate grounds, we should be able to make a legitimate case against them in a trial by jury. If we can't, then we never had any business holding them at all, regardless of what they are alleged to have done. The basis of my concern, aside from the injustice, is that the way our laws are now constructed, the same things that have been done to these GITMO internees can also be done to any citizen or resident of the U.S., without grounds, without recourse and wholly on the whims a single individual. There is literally nothing that seperates you, me or anybody else from the situation these hapless people find themselves in.

A few years ago I speculated on C&L threads that one of the overarching, but unspoken, purposes of places like GITMO was to habituate American people to atrocity. I'm still of that opinion. Aside from it's other purposes, such as evading the rule of law, GITMO is a tool of social indoctrination, purposefully crafted and deployed against the American public. It was particularly suitable for the task, because the alleged terrorists could be so easily portrayed as the dangerous "other", especially against the backdrop of relentless government/MSM partner-orchestrated campaigns of fear mongering, that we citizens could just as easily be manipulated into holding no scruples against anything that would be done in these places to these ultramega-badguy, designated-boogeymen-of-all-our-worst-nightmares. Concurrently, a centrally orchestrated campaign of xenophobia against illegal immigrants would reinforce the introduction into our national culture of eliminationist phobias about other "not us" groups (witness the concentration camps that have been constructed by FEMA on no-bid contracts in the last few years, ostensibly to "handle imigration emergencies or other situations"). Through a not-all-that-slow process of habituation, we as a people would be conditioned to become progressively more jaded about and tolerant of acts that shock the conscience, movng to majority acceptance, and finally to a self-righteous expectation that those acts be committed upon those who, by god, deserved what they get (and we could always count on the likes of FOX News or CNN to fan the flames of such expectations). Gradually, the circle that encloses around those who are "not us" would be expanded to include, dissidents, not just the uncooperative press but all journalists, war protestors, peaceful peoples like the Quakers and generally anybody who didn't get with the program (it's now come out that Bush's spy program violated all Americans, with special emphasis on exactly those groups and more). Throughout the process, we would conveniently miss the point that what is done to any of these groups can, with equal ease and perfect legality, be done to any of us. It was a process intended from its conception to corrode the national sense of right and wrong. It is a process that derives straight out of the totalitarian despot's playbook, and the Bush regime was following it to the letter.

I'd get a better feeling if Obama and Company would explicitly repudiate that process and the twisted and defective thinking that allows for it. It is something that must be done explicitly in words, followed by a series of decisive actions that unfold in deliberate and complete congruence with those words.

Unfortunately, this is all still speculation. I think we're all waiting with baited breath to see what the official closing policies are going to be, but I think it's putting the cart ahead of the horse a bit to start criticizing what hasn't happened yet.

is really off base. Read the PDF - Motion. It is about legal strategies. No where is there the assertion that Bush was right and we believe him. This is the kind of headlines and bylines that end up being misstatements, ommissions and outright lies that the Republicans have been adept at.

x number of times I have read that international aid people have stated that these men have been tortured. They have seen these conditions under which these men were kept prisoners.

Why not ask the International Red Cross and others to find hospitalization and rehabilitation for the ones who can be helped.

As for trials? The statute of limitations has run out. Any attempt at trials will be a mockery of justice.

And, damn it, close Gitmo and give the land back to the Cubans.

All of them.

... there were children imprisoned there too. One of them was a Canadian boy who is now one screwed-up young man.

I will never forgive Stephen Harper for that. Just a few days ago, Harper said he will wait to see what the US does before he makes a decision regarding Khadr's fate. Shameful.

Neither were most of them guilty of anything beyond WALRT.

Walking Around Looking Rather Taliban-ish.

and let's not forget about people with funny names either.

... the rightwingnuts just lost a full day's worth of talking points.

And holy christ, they coulda sent those guys to fucking KANSAS ...

Kans ass? C'mon man, that has got to be against the Geneva convention.

The men who tortured these poor people will be coming home free and clear. They will be walking our streets, living time bombs all of them. Once they decided that torturing others was ok they took a path they can never change.

It is them, the beasts who tortured others, that should be locked up.

!

I totally agree.

Because, a lot of them are going to become cops.

I hope that most of them can attain to a state were they acquire the capacity to be tormented by what they have done. There is no genuine hope for those who fail to attain to that capacity.

is still being used by the repugs and the press. Let's not lose sight of who the media works for.

The blogger Digby recently mentioned to me that the media, after years of deference to President Bush, are about to lurch back toward the excessively critical approach they took toward President Clinton:

Just as they treated Bush with extraordinary respect in reaction to their heinous behavior during the Clinton years, the villagers are now preparing to treat Obama with skepticism in reaction to the failures that resulted from their fawning obsequiousness.

Oddly, these lurches always seem to disfavor the Democrats.

on the right. What new boogeyman will they think of now?

funding a beneficial domestic program?
ending ridiculous gubmint secrecy?

it's a pretty good list.

Let's see, teh gays, immigrants, non-whites, non-christians, atheists, libruls, the French, the Sweeds, muslims, Hollywood folk, animals rights activists, climate change scientists, trial lawyers...they're starting to run out of boogeymen. Who's left?

bring them back as they are really scary!

like Obama.

No, we owe the commies too much money.

"Vice President Joe Biden"

It's true, it's really true. Cheney's gone. I can hardly believe it.

Yup

Mr. Potter went back to Pottersville to sit in his wheelchair and die

a whirlwind. If the inmates from Gitmo are put on trial in the U.S. they will tell of the way they were treated. The world will hear first-hand of the evils of Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney and others who gave orders to torture. Illegal orders, to be sure, but orders nonetheless.

Obama has said he wants to look forward. Looking forward will not be an option once these men and boys begin to get their story out.

He is sitting on the razor's edge.

)O(

I hope it's better than that awful Bill Murray movie.

Biden isn't the best spokesperson in the world, but it is very refreshing to hear frank, candid and honest answers from a VP of the US.

Definitely a step in the right direction.

Biden's got a case of Sen. Kerry-itis. Keeps on talking about things that haven't been decided as if he knows what the decision is. It's responses like this that keep Repub memes alive.

The Fed Justice system will work just fine. All these scared little pols, think that TV's 24 is actual reality.

I think if people like Charlie Manson, and few hundred Mafia hit men, (not to mention the original World Trade Center bombers in the 1990's), can be secure from the public, I think a thoroughly tortured terrorist won't be a menace to society either.

Remember all those crazy Cuban head cases that Castro gave us in the mid 80s? They were held in Federal Prisons just fine. And those were some bat-shit crazy mofos, I saw some of them.

We had to keep the Cubans that Castro gave us because of the Cuban Adjustment Act. It meant that we could not turn back any Cuban who reached our shores. Yes, some were held in Federal prisons and some also became American citizens. But I bet if you asked Gitmo detainees if they wanted to be given asylum in the USA, they would probably spit in your face.

we should be pouring money and "I'm sorrys" on these people for the wrong we have done to them.

If you love someone, set them free.
If the explosion was meant to be,
Soon you too shall be set free.

Old Conservative Proverb

They should be released in the united states and given maps of the republican party members homes!

What has received little attention is the new administration's use, as well as the media, of the word immediate as in claiming that Guantanamo Bay prison will be closed down immediately. It will not be closed tomorrow or next week or next month. On the contrary, it will be closed in a year from now which would hardly merit the definition of the word immediate. So much for the wheels of justice spinning with alacrity.

...needs to go on a four year secret mission to an undisclosed location. During that time, absolute silence must be maintained for security purposes. At the end of his mission, Joe should emerge to announce his unavailability for a second term and then retire to an undisclosed location.

I woke up this morning wondering if the boy's in the Club were OK. Why it was just last week you all were stokeing yourself over BO's stoke of the pen. BO had just made right all of W's wrongs, we were no longer a country of crime. These blog's don't stroke me as words of the Massia? I am not worried though, Joe the gaffe master said, BO was "CLEAN" and his word was his bondage.

When Joe Biden said Obama was clean, he was comparing Obama to himself. And if Biden isn't clean, why is it that the only negatives you and the Fox News Fools can say about him is that he makes gaffes? Find me some dirt on Joe Biden, I dare you.

there. Take a hike and learn before you blither St.

Ciao.

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