April 12, 2011 10:00 AM
Bachmann: Obama should put his birth certificate 'on the table'
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Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) indirectly questioned President Barack Obama's citizenship Monday night.
"As far as I’m concerned, I think, if I decide to throw the hat in the ring, anybody could look at my birth certificate, I could care less," she told Fox News' Sean Hannity. "This is the easiest problem to solve. The president just has to give proof and verification, and there it goes. Either it’s real or it’s not."
"Everybody should put their birth certificates on the table and not worry about it. It doesn’t have to be a toxic issue. Put your birth certificate in, end of story."
FactCheck.org reported in 2008 that they had "seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate."
was looking at the wrong table. Perhaps they looked on the table where everyone takes things off of.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
Cool! We're on the road of being able to blame Nancy Pelosi for the president not having a birth certificate that will please people who don't want to be pleased.
Of course personally I blame Obama for not demanding a long form birth certificate before his mom took him home from the hospital. He had to know that one day this subject would come up as he ran for President. But no, he caved and went home without it. He sold out to a hospital without so much as a fight. Maybe he figured it wouldn't matter because by the time he would choose to run many voters would go to a movie rather than vote.
Damn you baby Obama for not thinking ahead enough to realize that you were giving Donald Trump a voice in the world of crazy.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Thanks PoP you captured the essence of "the people who don't want to be pleased". Left and right.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
On guard for false equivalency.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
Real Progressives must prepare for Obama's speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcO4MMzdYE8&fe...
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
I'll win my bet by. I do not fear covering the spread.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
All the intel agencies conspired to cover up his origin of birth. So did the hospital back in 61. They all got together, back in 61, and created a phony birth certificate, the intel agencies helped create the bc, then, they sat on it, because they were conspiring to get him in the Oval office, back in 61.
Damn, I never knew our intel agencies were so smart. Crafty buggers.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
The only reason (excuse) that this has become an issue is the fact Obama is black.
Gasp! Did I say that?
Planned Parenthood, Gays, the poor, the middle class, immigrants, birth certificate, while sucking the dicks of the rich, etc.
Except hate, Republicans have no agenda.
Actually, hate is the second and last agenda item. Item 1 is accumulating as much money as possible regardless of the collateral damage.
Doesn't she realize how totally stupid this makes her sound? They don't want the birther title but they don't want to get so far away from it that they can't see it from their back door. Mean while, Trump wears the title as proudly as a boy scout with a new badge.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Well, in an effort to not appear as idiotic as she usually does she at least saved her nonsense for Han-nutty!
The Repigs are sooooo thick headed!!!! Is English not their language?????
They are so limited!!!!!
Good idea Michelle. I'm sure Obama would gladly place his birth certificate on the table, provided you place your latest psychiatric evaluation right next to it.
Bill Frist will say she is a functioning human being and the government must make a law for 1 person. He knows this from seeing a tape of her.
Anything Barack would put on the table would have to be a forgery because we know already he isn't one of us. (/snark)
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
And that's really the reason to not even answer to any of the wingnut nonsense. No matter what he does it won't count for some reason.
Have you ever noticed they all pretend like nobody has told them that President Obama's mother is American? I mean you can say that to their face and all you hear is crickets like you didn't say anything at all.
It takes a lot of work for me not to lower myself to their level with wishes like all registered republicans must show up at the polls with their long form birth certificate that has been thrice verified and notarized to prove they are Americans before they are allowed to vote.
Going the extra mile to prove Ann Coulter was right.
"That's fu*#ing retarded."
Big City Mayor
Haven't the death panels euthanized this bitch yet?
She has a different health care plan that we don't get. Elected representatives' tax-payer funded universal health care doesn't include death panels.
...mental health services?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Yes, but apparently they're optional. I think she just calls a doc to get her Klonopin refill.
Although I don't think he should have to even dignify this shit with a response, I want him to put it out just to get people to shut up.
I realize that a lot of people will cry "forgery," and what not, but those people would be safely put back to the lunatic fringe where they belong, and anyone sensible would just move on.
I believe he's a natural born citizen, I just want people to shut the hell up about it and get back to talking about important stuff.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
1) They won't shut up no matter what.
2) They won't talk about important stuff no matter what because they have no clue how to govern. Instead they pound on wedge issues.
3) He's an American regardless of where he was born. Constitution says so.
I know he's an American, but you have to be a natural born American citizen to qualify for the Presidency.
Anyway, Captain Kangaroo is an idiot, and I'm NOT a birther. I just want people to shut the hell up about it.
I mean look, there's a whole damn thread devoted to this lunacy!
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
Hey JACK, you are acting just like a birther.
And this is birther all the way.
You can call me an idiot all you want but you are the one who wants Obama to show his already shown birth certificate. I'll bet one of your best friends is black/gay/Democrat (take your pick).
I want him to show it to shut people up, not to satisfy me.
And someone said "he's an American citizen, so it doesn't matter." I was merely clarifying the technicality of the Constitution, as Arnold Schwarzenegger is an American citizen, yet he does not qualify to be the president.
Either you're not actually reading what I'm saying, or you're trolling me.
I am not a birther.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
The point is that he has shown what needs to be shown. The idiot birthers will NEVER believe it or will move on to something else like being a Muslim or something similarly idiotic.
If Obama is doing anything correct in the world it is ignoring this whole thing. It shows the birthers to be idiots. (M)Anne Coulter knows this. KKKarl Rove knows this. Obama and his team know it. While Rome burns let the birthers show how stupid they are.
I agree. I just want it to be over.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
But that's the whole problem. For the birther morons, it will never be over. Obama posted his BC online and they called it a forgery. His birth announcements were posted online. The governor and secretary of health of Hawaii both confirmed that his birth records are genuine.
There is literally nothing Obama can do that these idiots will accept. They will dismiss or ignore any proof of his birth that is offered. That's why Obama is just ignoring them now. Even acknowledging their existence is a waste of time.
You're right.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
I am beginning to suspect that you are here on this website simply to advertise your blog. Now I don't know the particulars of blogging etiquette but it does seem a little obvious.
If you didn't provide a link to your blog..I would take you more seriously.
I only provided the link at the recommendation of a regular here.
Of course I want people to read my shit, but if you don't I don't really care. I've taken way too much abuse from many of you for this to just be about my blog.
And you don't have to believe me. The people that do engage me in the discourse that I'm looking for, and that's all that matters. They probably don't even read my blog, and that's fine, too.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
Shut up. Just by saying what you said you are a birther. Obama has given his birth certificate.
You're an idiot.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
"Dear Mr. President, although you've already showed it and it won't make a bit of difference to manipulated imbeciles like me, and you're coincidentally the first Chief Executive forced to endure this racism based bullshit, you should again produce your birth certificate."
Fuck you Jack.
Why thank you.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
Jack, I know you are but what am I?
Oh you want a more substantive reason as to why you're an idiot? The birthers are the morons who believe that he's not a natural born citizen.
I believe, 100% in my heart of hearts, that he's a natural-born American citizen, and that those who verified the authenticity of his birth certificate did so truthfully. I think the fact that we, as a country, are even having this debate is asinine.
If you didn't glean that from what I've posted, then you either didn't read what I said or you're a moron.
I guess option 3 is that you're just mistaken, which is fine, too. Either way, I'm not a birther.
I do, however, appologize for the vitriol. Lumping me in with the lunatic fringe is fightin' words.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
It really pisses me off how literally every time this is mentioned conservatives seem to ignore it.
President Obama has already produced his birth certificate. Okay? There's even a link confirming it in the post you're commenting on, which you apparently didn't read.
How they hangin this mornin? Swingin freely I hope.
Yeah, I know, it gets frustrating with all this bullshit about his bc. Down right fricken crazy.
But, he can't publish this bc now. For a number of reasons. And I suspect the Bachmanns and Trumps of this world know this.
1 If he does approve of this bc to be published, he is kinda breaking the law. Bc's are protected.
I know we can request one. But they won't send you the long form. They won''t do it. Identity protection. We can't have too many impostors running around ya know.
2 If he provides his Lf bc, which he can't, he'll be seen as weak. That the GOp got under his skin and forced him to do something ..
That he didn't want to do.
That he's already done.
3 We're talkin the President of the US here. The guy with the nukes. The commander in chief. He shouldn't have to lower himself to prove this absurd accusation.
4 The vetting process. If a GOp slugger hasn't been able to come up with definitive proof by now, well..
5 The GOp are playing people for fools. Obama knows this.
I wonder if McCain would have gotten this treatment from the Left? Seeing he was born in Panama
( military installation ), Yeah, I know about the law governing nationals being born abroad particularly on military installations. But those installations are leased lands, right? I suppose embassy's are leased as well. Oh well, adios. Have a good one Jack.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Yeah, that was the caveat I said at first is that he shouldn't even have to dignify these insane accusations with a response, and what you've said makes perfect sense.
To sum up what you said: God hates me.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
Well, she does have a problem with some of her fan club. ;)
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Haha, I like the "she." A professor of mine (a man) always said that =)
In response to your thing about military installations, yes those are considered U.S. territory even though they are in foreign countries. Not sure where to look to check that, though.
When I was in the Navy, one of the rules was that we were not allowed to bring pregnant foreign nationals on board if they were about to give birth, because if the child was born on the ship then he/she would be considered an American citizen, and that apparently would have caused a shit storm of problems for them.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
Is sovereign US property. There is no question about citizenship, being born onboard a US Navy vessel. No question about it. And I believe they amended the Constitution for nationals to give birth overseas, on mi's, so their children would be US citizens.
Not sure if anyone other than a US citizen would be born a US citizen on a mi.
Say, a Panamanian, get's on base, gives birth. Not sure how that would work out. But I think that they would have a problem with that.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Hey Jack, by letting this topic to come on this website we are getting the news about what these idiots are doing. And if we want to draw attention to them it is a good thing. Trump and Bachmann and Palin could just let it die but they keep bring it up. I enjoy showing how idiotic they and their ilk are.
Oh I know. I don't think we're wrong to have the thread to this, it just sucks that we even have to have it.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
The Fourteenth Amendment does not say anything about the President being born on foreign land (Text of the amendment).
The Twelfth Amendment does not say anything about the birth of the president. (Text of the 12th amendment)
I believe* the constitution mentions that the president has to be born in the United States. There is no amendment that changes that. If there is a lw that changes it then the law is not constitutional because to change the constitution you have to amend the constitution by way of the rules to do so. I don't think that the actual problem has been fully resolved by the Supreme Court.
*I am not a lawyer but play one on the internet
Article II section 1 only states that he has to be a "natural born citizen of the United States." It makes no mention of this other stuff.
I can see the problem though. My guess is that at the time they wrote it they didn't have these sort of citizenship laws and what not in mind. So to them, the United States might have simply just meant the physical location of the Continental United States.
But taken loosely, anyone who is born a citizen of the US, regardless of location, would be eligible. I think the only thing that matters is one's citizen status, so if we consider people born on bases or ships to be citizens by birth, then they're okay.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
Muddy
I suspect that that law is not all that clear. It may not say anything about a president being born on rented/leased foreign land. And if this law does say that, maybe it can't legally say that without an amendment to the constitution. The thing is that it has not been looked into very deeply because the Left does not care.
Just like these birthers and truthers, there would be some crazy asshats on the left trying to spin this bullshit. We would have quashed this by now. But there would still be a fringe element .
Not as bad as these birthers. But they wouldn't let that die no matter what. For some people, reality is just over the fence. Out of reach. Sad but true.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
...I really don't care to hear about it anymore so I looked it up: what it takes to "vet" the President and I took this off a blog so I don't have that much confidence but it sounds logical -
"..there is no vetting process, there is simply ballot access. Obama asked to be put on the primary ballots in several states (others had caucuses) and the states' Secretaries of State let him on.
This is why Orley Taites wanted to be Secretary of State of California. She wanted to deny him access to the ballot. Not that it would have mattered. The Democratic party would have run a slate of delegates (that's who you are really voting for in a Presidential Election) who would in the end give their votes to Obama.
Note that the State of Hawaii TOLD every one of those other states he was valid, and relying on the "Full Faith and Credit" clause of the Constitution, they took Hawaii at their word."
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
"...because the Left does not care."
The fact is that the right doesn't care either. Anything they are ever indignant about is never about what they say it is. They couldn't care less if Obama is a citizen or not. They just don't want Obama to be president so anything they can pretend to be outraged about works for them.
Same goes for the deficit. Any time I hear a wingnut talking about it I tell him to basically shut the hell up because he has no credibility. He didn't say one word when Bush was racking up the greatest deficit known in the history of man.
It wasn't until Obama inherited it that it was a problem.
So pick an issue the wingnuts are all up in arms about - any issue. I promise you in their heart they really don't care about the issue. It's about them being petulant little cry-babies who didn't get their way.
has moved on. If you want to criticize the site for posting threads that mock the mentally handicapped you might have a scintilla of justification but then you'd have to criticize so many in the Republican party for coddling and enabling behavior of the people who encourage and use this crap for campaign purposes. That's just about everybody in the Republican hierarchy. There's nothing subtle about this. Nobody in the Republican party has the guts to say "stop this idiocy you're embarrassing us" but they are whining about people on the left mocking them for their lack of courage. Get used to it.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Even Boneher would not let the crap die. Or McTurtlehead. They basically said that they birthers should just go on thinking what they want with no help from the leadership.
Oh I criticize them too. Did I not call them "idiots," enough? I wasn't criticizing this site for having the discussion.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
c*nt air time. End of story.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Crazy sells dude. You know that. Sucks, but there it is.
Of course a responsible media would....
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
Anyone believing the "birthism" movement will shut up forever if Obama puts anything and everything on the table?
Yeah right, and blackmailers will go away after you give them whatever they ask for...
. . . where Republicans put it for Obama. Michele Bachmann must show her original birth certificate (not a certified copy) to every person in the United States. Otherwise, how can I trust that there actually is a birth certificate? After all, if she does not show it to me, then how can I know? In addition, she must provide absolute proof that this "original" birth certificate she is showing me is not a forgery. After all, it could be a forgery and it is up to her to prove that it is not. Merely saying that anyone can look at her birth certificate is not sufficient. Merely allowing trusted people to look at her birth certificate on our behalf is not sufficient. (remember, a Republican Governor of Hawaii looked at Obama's original and was satisfied.)
No, Michele Bachmann MUST prove herself to the American people. And since she has not yet done that, we must ask:
Why does Michele Bachmann hate America?
In a very warped demented kinda way.
Make her prove it. Make her show the real thing. Then say, it's bullshit. It's a phony. And never let up. Just keep saying that it's bullshit.
Nawwwwwwww. Too childish.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I won't believe her birth certificate if I see it. We all know the GOP has boatloads of money. They can afford to pay off hospital even though they own the hospitals so they won't need to.
Nothing Bachmann can do would convince me that she wasn't born in a Third World outhouse with mutated farm animals for parents.
of those "farm subsidies" she has taken to keep her "faux" farm running. Also I want to see proof she is really a human being.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Wow, Nixon's fantasies taken to the next level?
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
that aparently C & L have revoked the President's right to assassinate anyone anywhere on the globe. Good job C & L. Have you told him yet?
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
The President, Hannity, and Bachmann, all around a televised table. The President will put his birth certificate on the table, immediately after (1) Bachmann places medical evidence of her sanity on the table; and, (2) Hannity places all evidence of any personal scruples on the table. Mr. President, methinks you'll wind up sitting this one out.
So Shammity got Bachmann ion to counter Coulter. Apparently Coulter came on Shamm's show (Coulter claims only 'liberal' media are promoting the Trump 'Birther' story. Then Van Susteren lets Trump do his thing) and railed against the Birthers. And then blamed it on the Left (Of courrrrrse she did.)
A funny thing she said was
But the funniest thing is that she was saying this to Hannity who is a HUUUUUGE birther. No wonder he had Bachmann on to counter Coulter who shot down the whole birther deal and in fact tried to blame the Left for bringing it up. That was fuuuuunny.
Notice the qualifier Coulter uses "responsible" as a preference for the "conservative organizations" that have dismissed the birther claims. Clearly, the word "responsible" cannot apply to Fox, which is why they are able to continue airing birther theories.
You put out a certificate of your sanity first Michelle. No forgeries!
She also has to produce people who have known her from kindergarten who will give sworn testimony that she was sane at that time.
Funny how nobody in her kindergarten remembers Bachmann's Rorschach test results or even her having taken one.
It this bizarro becomes POTUS, then some freshman Repub rep must propose that the bald eagle be replaced as the national bird by the cuckoo.
Hey, we all know the Potus will be selected in '16, and we know it will be a republican, so we should really be thinkin' about who that's gonna be. We won't have a choice, but at least we should try to get a glimpse now.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Maybe we should all register as republicans to vote in their primaries.
I'm not kidding. I think that this is a great idea. Progressives should register in mass as Republicans. (Don't worry, just call yourselves Lincolnian Republicans.)
This needs to become a movement. Let the hardcore Democratic base pick the best Democrat running. Millions of progressives need to register as Republicans to help make sure that they don't pick someone like Michelle Bachmann as their nominee (unless you care to gamble and hope that Obama could beat her even if this recovery goes sour as it did in 1937 when FDR cut spending.
"The antidote to bad speech is more speech." ~~J.S. Mill
"FactCheck.org reported in 2008 that they had 'seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate.'"
Obama should do what every other presidential candidate in the history of this country has done, deliver the original birth certificate in person to every voter in the country for their inspection, and answer questions about it over a cup of coffee. While hooked up to a lie detector.
If he won't lay all his card on the table in that simple, folksy manner, of course questions will be asked! What's he hiding?
I absolutely agree. If he can't sit down and talk to 300 millions Americans, one-at-a-time, over a cup of coffee then you have to ask yourself what he's hiding.
You know...
After he FINALLY produces his birth certificate that has never been seen or certified by anyone such as the governor of Hawaii, all the wingnuts will be bitching that he's screwing around with trivial matters such as birth certificates instead of being serious about leading the country.
Obama released it during the campaign, but remember, FACTS DON'T MATTER!
Obama's certificate of live birth.
"The antidote to bad speech is more speech." ~~J.S. Mill
One thing that the birthers always overlook-Hawaii had a repug governor until this last election. Don't they think that if the Obama's birth certificate was fake that she would have said so. She never said anything.
Obama should agree to her challenge If she'll agree to a psychiatric examination.
He could even up the ante by proposing that a federally funded psychological study of her entire congressional district be undertaken as well.
So she is illiterate, too. Can't hardly wait for her to place her candidacy on the table.
...on the American media radar screen right now is this 'birther BS'.
Does anyone remember that there was an earthquake and tsunami in Japan a month ago? I suppose its important to someone...not me but someone. sigh, more's the pity
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
This has been running in conspiracy circles since before the election in 2008.
When Glenn Beck is a voice of sanity on a topic, you know that something weird is afoot. Yes, Beck thinks that the birther idea is dumb and for flat-earthers (although he didn't point this out to Sisters Sarah or Michelle).
What is going on is this: facts don't matter to the tea party reactionaries. They want to believe the worst about Obama, so they believe this debunked myth. (In addition to FactCheck.org, there are also the birth announcements that the hospital placed in the newspapers of the time. (Liar Bill O'Reilly has claimed that the grand parents paid to place those birth announcements.)
Facts don't matter! Whether it is Swiftboat liars against Kerry or birther morons against Obama, what matters is the lie and repetition of the lie over and over and over. It's an element of propaganda, so when Bachmann's tea party base supports Trump because he's a birther, then she knows that she's better throw them a bone if she's going to compete for their votes.
Let me add that sometimes Glenn Beck is actually spot on. This is one of the times where I agree with Beck completely. He thinks that Obama is not going to HA and posing with a notary public with his original document of birth because it is making people seem extreme and absurd (to adjectives Glenn Beck knows a thing or two about). I think that Obama has done all he needs to do, publishing his BC online. The rest has more to do with people engaged in propaganda than with anything else.
Anyone seriously interested in understanding how facts are ignored on the right needs to read True Enough: Learning to Live in a Post-Fact Society. When there's an agenda to support or defeat, facts become one of the first victims. Bachmann is one of the country's leading proponents of substitution myths for facts.
"The antidote to bad speech is more speech." ~~J.S. Mill
this absolutely idiotic distraction is working in obama's favor now
It is! It's one of the times when he and I agree on something.
I may be a harsh critic of Mr. Beck, but when he's right I will make note and publish the news. (And when Beck is right on the facts, THAT IS news!)
"The antidote to bad speech is more speech." ~~J.S. Mill
Or just choosing the stance he thinks will help Mitt and hurt Donald?
Can YOU provide us with a verifiable piece of paper that PROVES you are smarter than lint? I have serious doubts about that......
from Oral Roberts U. (Maybe they allow cheating.)
"The antidote to bad speech is more speech." ~~J.S. Mill
Oh, but that's not a REAL degree.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
"seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate." and then rolled a big ol' fat Joint so the "Liberal" media could keep on calling "where is it?" (see Mumar-Coulter-monster-Qadafi)
...outlets. Didn't Coulter said that only liberals were spreading this birth certificate issue?
The minute he does that they'll claim it's fake and create another week of FOX distractions. Obama's not stupid enough to walk into that trap.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
Apparently it's more important to have the correct document than it is to actually know anything about the Constitution or our history. So I would challenge crazy Shelley, and all candidates for national office, to pass the same citizenship test that naturalized citizens must pass.
And since foreign corporations can now inject unlimited amounts of money into our electoral process, what the hell does it matter where the president was born? We'll eventually end up as a right-wing dictatorship just like all the foreign governments we support.
Excellent point about the citizenship exam thing.
"The greatest threat to freedom of thought is intellectual cowardice." -George Orwell, 1946
http://christianfearinggodman.blogspot.com
Bachmann is a joke
Hi. My name is Eric.
I worked for the State of Oregon's, Department of Human Resources, Division of Vital Statistics for about 18 months. In that time I fielded a LOT of requests. I issued somewhere in the neighborhood of 100k to 150k birth, death, marriage and divorce certificates to qualifying individuals, after vetting their right/qualification to receive the document. I researched considerably more. I entered somewhere in the neighborhood of 3000 to 5000 new birth certificates into our state mainframe/database.
I also worked closely with non-Oregon Vital Stats offices.
I am incredibly familiar with birth certificate policies, procedures, processes, and laws.
1 - The document which birthers are demanding .. the "long form" birth certificate .. is no longer issued by the State of Hawaii. Hawaii banished the practice of issuing long forms in 2001. As Dr. Fukino (former head of Hawaii Dept of Human Services) so succinctly told us earlier this week, the record which President Obama shared with factcheck, is the exact same type of document issued to EVERY citizen who was born in Hawaii.
This is not to be considered a conspiracy. This was simply a cost-saving decision. Long form birth certificates are more expensive to create than the computer-generated "short form" printouts. Short forms are more legible, can be created more quickly (one minute versus 20 minutes), and are perfectly acceptable forms of self identification for purposes of enrolling children in school, obtaining a drivers license or passport, entering the military or federal intelligence work, opening a bank account or starting a job.
Hawaii is one of about 15-20 states to have legislated a rule abolishing the issuance of long form birth certificates. Arizona, interesting enough, is another state who has abolished the issuance of long forms. Thats right, the same state that demands "das papers" in order to prevent the propogation of "anchor babies" .. has barred the issuance of long form birth certificates to all citizens who were born in Arizona in 1989 or later.
2 - Birth certificates are not public record. These are highly confidential records of self identification, guarded closely by each state's Registrar, in accordance with his/her state's laws. Any rumors that you might have heard, that President Obama spent "TWO MILLION DOLLARS" or some such outlandish figure, "hiding" his birth certificate from the public, are lies. President Obama has spent he same figure "hiding" his birth certificate from birthers, that you or I spend "hiding" our birth certificate from potential identity thieves. And that figure is $0.
The original long form birth record, which was submitted by the hospital to the County Registrar, who in turn submitted the birth record to the State Registrar (in accordance to state law), is secured in a vault. The original birth record is, in fact, the sole property of the State of Hawaii, and is bound to secrecy by Hawaiian laws. These laws are designed to protect the public from identity thieves, from abusive parents, etc.
There are no laws which have created an exception to these rules. All citizens have the right to the same level of privacy over their vital records, regardless how famous - or infamous - those citizens are. Both Barack Obama, and Charles Manson, enjoy the same protections as you or I.
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so, in summary
the record which is demanded by birthers, cannot - legally speaking - be provided.
and for non-citizens to demand this record, based on a hunch, is in severe violation of both the 4th and 10th Amendments.
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