I AM APPALLED! Admiral Mullen After Viewing Classified Detainee Photos
July 23, 2009 News Corp:
Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, expressed outrage to his combatant commanders after seeing some of the detainee abuse photos now under wraps by the Obama administration, according to a highly sensitive memo obtained Wednesday by FOX News.
In the July 10 memo to service chiefs and battlefield commanders, Mullen says he is "appalled by even the suggestion that someone in an American uniform would behave in such a way."
The photos depict clear instances of abuse -- though not torture -- that included beatings and in some cases deaths during battlefield detentions in Iraq from 2001-2006.
He is the first top military commander to admit that what were in those photos included what would be described as "abuse."
The photos Mullen viewed are among thousands now at the heart of an ACLU lawsuit against the administration. President Obama ordered the photos not be released after commanders, including Gen. Ray Odierno, argued that their release could jeopardize the lives of American soldiers serving in Iraq and elsewhere.
And last month, the Senate quietly passed a ban on the release of any detainee abuse photos, preventing Obama from signing an executive order classifying the photos, a move that would have surely inflamed the left after his campaign promises for more "sunlight" in Washington.
Shortly after Obama's May 13 decision not to release the photos, Mullen was shown the first batch of these classified pictures. A few weeks later he was shown another batch. This was a couple weeks prior to a meeting of combatant commanders at the Pentagon.
Aides say Mullen "stewed on it for a little while" and eventually decided to put something in writing to the commanders.
According to a description of the photos, Mullen saw badly beaten detainees and in some cases detainees who had been killed.
What he saw in the photos included signs of "heavy handed physical abuse, beating."
"Some were horrific. He was disgusted by what he saw," a Mullen spokesman said.
Unlike the now infamous photos from Abu Ghraib prison, all these photos were taken during battlefield interrogations before imprisonment. In the memo, Mullen demands his forces be trained so they understand this kind of thing should never happen again.
...blaming the little guys for carrying out what was at least an institutuional policy, if not direct orders. The Hague is probably very nice this time of year.
A lot of people are appalled at the monstrous treatment of prisoners; unlike us, however, Mullen can do something aout it. It seems like if Mullen has the courage of his convictions then he ought to order a top-to-bottom investigation and discipline and/or prosecute anyone who is to blame.
Name a price and I'll bet that much he won't do anything bar hot air and talking.
I live in Holland and yes, Den Haag is pretty nice in the summer...
Horrific beatings sometimes resulting in deaths don't constitute torture?
Apparantly it is not torture under the Bush definition. But it is murder.
Yes.
And Obama is protecting the perpetrators.
He doesn't even want the truth of what they did released to the American people.
I am hoping he and Holder are waiting until after healthcare passes. There are already two investigations headed by Special Prosecutors currently going on. One is the distruction of the video tapes. I cannot remember the other.
I am shocked that Fox even reported this.
Jennifer Griffen's days at Faux are numbers. She's just not a team player. It's not just what she said, but just look at her lips, where's the gloss? And do I even have to mention she's somewhat mammarilly challenged? Not up to standard, no, not at all.
Check out the girls boobs up top and to the left in the ad for the video game? Damn!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Methinks here nape is too bare and she is in need of a pearl necklace.
These photos woul;d make it perfectly clear how ugly the Empire is.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Eric Holder said that made his stomach turn.
... Holder along with whoever heads the military justice system are in the position to do more than just get the vapors and perhaps, after sufficient fortification, issue a Sternly-Worded-Letter™
It is so disheartening to anyone hoping for change that so soon in his administration Obama would be on the wrong side of a lawsuit brought by the ACLU. I would have wanted him to be on the side of airing reality so that it will not be repeated. But he would rather protect the perpetrators.
The worst of it is that he uses Bush's rhetoric. Disclosure would be "harmful to the troops".
The only people who are being kept in the dark are the American people.
of what possible good can it do? I know it would incense the public, and probably give one more good reason to the lunatic suicide bombers if the pictures could be realized.
I think I would side with holding back on releasing them as well. Why place our troops in more danger than they already are?
I think Mullen made this pretty clear....they resulted in murder, severe abuse, and if you want to toss in the word torture, you'd be right on the money by any feeble definition that the apologists could muster up.
I agree. If nothing else the timing was bad. Releasing them just when the withdrawel was to begin and knowing that violence would increase could have done more damage. His decision to follow the advice of the Generals was right.
Since there is no apparent action towards prosecuting the crimes, the failure to release the photos is part of a coverup and therefore aiding and abetting the criminals who perpetrated these crimes against humanity.
..after all, if a former President can get away with murder and torture, how important is it to levy a fine against me for speeding or failing to wear my seat belt?
I didn't kill anyone and it was fast and expedient so why shouldn't I go free? Don't they get it? We USED to be a nation of laws; now we're all just criminals and why should we bother with laws? Laws are for other people not us.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
are buried.
The Democrats could be way over their heads in this. From the day after 9/11 when they allowed The Patriot Act and the scam 9/11 Commission and it's "Lies and Omissions Report" to be accepted, they started down a slippery slope.
Who knows what Pelosi, Harman, Feinstein and Co. were told about torture and when? Once the investigation is started, if it is truly independent, the chips will fall on both the Republican and Democratic sides of the aisle.
And as we are all painfully aware, to almost ALL the Congresspersons it's all about the next re-election cycle and keeping their jobs....and benefits.
Ethics doesn't dawn on any of them whether it's illegal wars, incarcerating Americans for victimless drug "crimes" or allowing 20,000 Americans to die every year for a lack of "health insurance".
They are mostly a cold-blooded lot, I say.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
..its because of politicians who made decisions to authorize torture and abuse. Who is being protected here? Certainly not the military as they are still in harm's way. The only people being protected are the f-ing torturers and their enablers; they need to be brought to justice swift and sure so that the next guy who thinks that we are a nation above our own laws thinks twice about it.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Why are the Bushies all roaming around America spending their stolen blood money on material trinkets.
Why was Condi Rice hired by the University of California?
Cheney and Rove hired by FOX Noise? Etc., etc.
Are we to reward murderers in Bush Bizarro World where everything is reversed. Bush with tits, Palin is next in line in Bush Bizarro World where loyalty is rewarded over common sense endangering us all.
Obama stands up for a mistreated friend, the rightwing erupts.
Memo to rightard nazis; you lost, go away. You control nothing.
Now sit by the pond next to your mansion and shrivel up and blow away.
No one will ever be punished for what Bush directed the cops to do at Abu Graib and Gitmo but the American people.
Nobody will ever be held accountable for these atrocities. It is disgusting.
The right sure hates politcal correctness unless they are calling the shots. Instead of torture howzabout enhanced interrogation? Or harsh interrogation? Or horrific heavy handed badly beaten physical abuse?
"every cloud is silver liney"
The Chairman wants training so this doesn't happen again? The officer corps is, and was, already trained that abuse of prisoners is a war crime.
They simply put promotions first. Admiral Mullen, may I suggest court-martials of some senior (0-6 to O-10) officers if you really mean what you say. I won't hold my breath.
These pictures are from CID investigations, and they go back as far as 2002. Mullen is acting like neither he nor anyone else with command responsibility had any idea anything like this was going on until he saw the pictures a few weeks ago.
Bullshit.
Everybody up and down the command knew. If they didn't order it, they knew it was going on. They had to. You can't have an investigation that the command doesn't know about, and these pictures are from hundreds and hundreds of investigations of detainee abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002.
Being "appalled" now is all well and good, but what took so long?
Once again we ask - "WHEN DO BUSH PEOPLE START GOING TO JAIL??""
"And last month, the Senate quietly passed a ban on the release of any detainee abuse photos, preventing Obama from signing an executive order classifying the photos, a move that would have surely inflamed the left after his campaign promises for more "sunlight" in Washington."
Geez.
It may have passed the the Senate, but even it becomes law I don't believe it can circumvent the "Freedom of Information Act". Apparently it is just another hurdle to delay the release of these photos. It sickens me whenever I hear someone say they are doing this to protect our fighting men and women. They are only out to protect themselves as always. It is only the criminals that ever fear the release of evidence.
when officers turn a blind eye to the abuse.
Obama needs to release the terrible evidence that the U.S. is a nation that tortures/murders POW's.
We shouldn't publish these photos, just like we don't print the pictures of those who are victims of rape. It further humiliates them and serves as material to further incite people against us. With that being said, I strongly support that prosecutions should happen as soon as possible, starting from the top down, right from the oval office. I mean hard time behind bars, 23 hours lockdown at maximum security.
"Somehow" Bernie Madoff got selected to go to a cush prison for the rest of his life that is described as being more like "a college campus". I don't think this is exactly the kind of blood his victims were crying for:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=80...
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
An FCI isn't that nice of a place. It's a far cry from a Federal Prison Camp where there are no fences or cell bars. Everything at an FCI is hard steel and concrete... like living in a dog cage. It may look like a college campus but that's because there are so many men there working 7.5 hours a day on landscaping.
Otherwise the people won't be in support of prossecution!
The pictures of all crimes should be showed as they did with the NAZI Crimes.
And don't forget that these are just the events that were pictured and were not destroyed so they are just the tip of the Iceberg
Nazi eh ........ you should read about P.Bush and the amount of support that the US was giving to the Nazis while the real allies were over there fighting it out.
Too many people in the ignorant US have watched Saving private Ryan and think that it was just the US in WW2, and they did all the work and saved the day.
No wonder the US stands alone in the world, on it's own now. It's getting what it deserves.
The public needs to know in detail the crimes that were committed in our name and we need to unequivocably establish the fact that terms such as "harsh interrogation" are the foulest of lies and come from the tongues of monsters!
You are talking about actions that most americans support and don't care about, as long as they get cheap gas, another hummer and some more burgers to feed their obesity.
You're more likely to get them to change their minds if paris hilton tells them .........
"The photos depict clear instances of abuse -- though not torture -- that included beatings and in some cases deaths during battlefield detentions in Iraq from 2001-2006."
Nice to know America STILL considers beatings and murder not to be torture. Nice to know the prez refuses to release these. Oh yeah, btw-it's not for the protection of our soldiers (nice try). It's because if these photos were released, the citizens of the US and the world would DEMAND those responsible be brought to trial.
That simply cannot happen in the America I have grown to distrust on almost every substantive "official" position it holds when it comes to crimes of high office.
hundreds of cases of abuse, hundreds of photos taken of each case, over a thousand photos? can someone not do math very well?
These photos should not be made public. At least not now. There will be a time that they should and must be made public. When we someday leave the Middle East and give these people back their countries back. I'm sure I'll face all kinds of attacks for these comments but we must look at the reality. Under Obama we are making steps to pulling out of Iraq. If these photos are released all hell will break lose in Iraq that we'll have to go back into areas that we pulled out of. Even if you disagree with it, this is a smart move by the administration.
is intended to be a factual statement
i dont think i agree, it is not the Iraqis that dont know whats going on, it is the US. The Iraqis are there, they have all had friends and loved ones mutilated and killed by our bombs or been on the receiving end of beatings themselves. The US population needs fresh air and a reality check, we arent pulling out, thats a giant load of shit.
Pulling back, not out. The Iraqi's do know. But the future recruiting oppurtunities these photos provide is limitless. That's my only point. I'm sure all Muslims understand and know what's going on but releasing these photos is recruitment for young Muslims to die. It's only going to cause more deaths. Most of those deaths will be 15 to 21 year old Muslims who are recruited. We've seen enough. We don't need to fan the flame by showing how our military can act. that's all I'm saying. Don't get me wrong. I hate these wars and I think people who committed these crimes should be held accountable. But at this time, it wouldn't be helpful.
is intended to be a factual statement
The US hasn't seen any where near enough death, that is blatantly obvious as they are still in several countries murdering for their own gains, as supported by the "patriotic" population back at home "Support the troops man" ........ and nice side step of actually admitting what they are doing.
Sickening.
And believe me, I've been there, they don't need "photos" to be recruited, they just look out their windows to see the dead children and murdered parents. I think that is enough.
Let alone the attitude of the troops there, and then the typical americans you see on TV "Iraqis have to take responsibility for their own country" "Oh we're there helping them" "We're defending our safety and exporting liberty to them".
Sickening ........ I can only imaging the backlash that this is going to cause, and what is going to happen to the US and it citizens for the evils they are inflicting at the moment.
Your last paragraph made my point. Although, it's not the US and it's citizens that are doing this. It's GW and his supporters. This is part of the problem. When narrow minded people think the entire US is at fault here. A majority of americans believe that what we have done in the Middle East is wrong. But our voice doesn't count when we don't have the power. Just as the majority of muslims are against the Taliban and were against Hussien, it didn't matter. they didn't have the power.
So all us Americans should hate all Muslims because of Hussien and the Taliban? Why didn't you stop them or 9/11? Should we hate all Muslims because of that? That's ignorant and recruitment.
is intended to be a factual statement
> It's GW and his supporters.
Over half the electorate voted to reelect him and even when the GOP lost Congress, that Congress continued to support the shrub. Collectively the US government and we, its people are culpable for GWB's crimes and the best thing we can muster in our defense is "let's let bygones be bygones—no hard feelings; won't happen again".
Don't lump me in with this we bullshit. You want to be part of we, go ahead. We? You. I cast my vote in 2000 for Al Gore, In 2004 I voted for John Kerry. The months after 9/11 leading up to the war in Iraq, I spoke up. Yet, I'm part of "We"? Fuck you.
is intended to be a factual statement
> So all us Americans should hate all Muslims because of Hussien and the Taliban?
How ignorant are you ? Do you have any idea where Hussien came from ? Read a book, seriously.
> Although, it's not the US and it's citizens that are doing this.
Of course it is, and very much so. You spout on one hand that you're the perfect democracy (which the US isn't anyway) and have the gall to tell the rest of the world how to live, then run away when your ELECTED officials, which you elected do things you don't want to be publicly associated with.
> When narrow minded people think the entire US is at fault here.
When the US blames every Muslim and takes the typical US black and white approach to the world, that is exactly what it is going to get in return and exactly what it deserves. Much the same as the dead women and children gunned down by US people in Iraq thought, just before the US paid for bullets ripped though them.
> A majority of americans believe that what we have done in the Middle East is wrong
That is complete BS, the majority of US people are behind it, it was even 80% after your little 9/11 black flag opp to bolster support for it all.
> Should we hate all Muslims because of that? That's ignorant and recruitment.
Most americans do yes, at least your admitting it now.
> Don't lump me in with this we bullshit.
You are the we, get over it. This is exactly how the US treats the world, and exactly what you'll get and deserve in turn.
You're right gump. Just six more months and everything should be ironed out in the mid east. The natives will have calmed down and will then be better able to deal with the photos.
I didn't say six years either. Don't try and falsely analyze my post to think you are smarter than me. I'll do it for you. My point was, regardless of right or wrong, it's not helpful. there will,scratch that, there should be a time when people will be held accountable. But this is not the time. It's easy to armchair and say I'm a liberal and we should do this. But we are commenters on a blog. If we would have listened to a Scott Ritter in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess.
is intended to be a factual statement
n/t
Yea. that's what it is.
is intended to be a factual statement
..limitations run out? Its NOW or might as well be never. We are, at the moment, a nation of criminals. You can't escape that, we can't escape that. Our government authorized torture and the current government is holding back REQUIRED investigations and criminal charges. We are obligated with proceeding on these illegal activities and we're in violation of own laws and international agreements we've signed onto. There is no shade of gray only what the law says.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
> We are, at the moment, a nation of criminals
Well said.
..do you think that holding back is better releasing? Do you think that releasing later will quell the violence? If we own up to the errors of our ways, bring the criminals to justice, we begin to regain our morality. Until its all out in the open, we are nothing.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
The photos depict clear instances of abuse -- though not torture -- that included beatings and in some cases deaths
I bet if you could but ask those beaten whether it was "torture" or just "painful" and "caused suffering" they'd ask, "You mean, there's a difference?"
Better yet, if you could but ask those that were killed before the photos were taken if they'd rather have been "tortured"- I mean abused or killed, they'd have opted for the pain and suffering...
Make no motto of love that worships war
them thar well-trained Patriots will get to do the same thing to libs, Dems and durty fucking hippies in the "homeland."
Read the recent bio of Ted Kennedy - he's ominiously quoted as saying to his RFK nephews that he's glad he won't be around they're his age, "The whole thing will unravel by then."
I don't think it will take that long.
That the US dosen't recognise the international criminal court then, as it would never be out of it.
The US has been torturing and abusing people and countries for ages, this is no shock to anyone in the real world.
The only point of interest here is that the US is doing is so much more and blatantly now, just giving rise to a few generations of millions of real terrorists (opposed to the ones they sponsered in the first place).
Ones that will really have cause to try and wipe the US of the map, as it's a country that murdered, raped, and beat their families and country to death.
Reap .... sow ..........
Is beating a prisoner somehow not torture?
Only if it happens to a US person, not if a US person is doing it to anyone else; tis the nature of empire and having a media that tells you you're perfect all the time ........
Go back to sleep ameircon, your government has it all figured out.....
knowing that Big Brother has everything in hand—now, can anyone explain those strange scars near my frontal lobe?
That's where you sold your soul and your self to the lie of the americon dream.
but not so much as to assist in criminal prosecutions of entire chain of command...oh no...he wants to look forward
There's probably an argument to be made for keeping the lid on this until after health coverage reform and other badly needed repairs are in place. The GOP really is in a tight spot to fight against the popular healthcare reform and financial aid to the unemployed populace. Broaching this subject now would give the GOP a chance to change the subject and start pushing the "national security button" which seems to still be a rather effective attack.
Of course, at this point both tactical delay and sweeping it all under the carpet look pretty much the same. We have to keep the issue from fading completely away and hope that we can get it onto the front burner in short order. I still have some hope that Obama will do the right thing, but people seem to lose their souls when the reach the capital—well those thad had them when they got there.
"The photos depict clear instances of abuse -- though not torture -- that included beatings and in some cases deaths during battlefield detentions in Iraq from 2001-2006."
Fascinating. Even this reporter seems to buy into the logic that says you can abuse a person to death without ever necessarily crossing the line into torture. Even if it happens to hundreds, presumably -- as long as nobody INTENDED torture, then no torture happened. How utterly ridiculous.
Admiral, this kind of "thing" will never happen again once your troops are trained and EVERY F-ING INDIVIDUAL & POLITICIAN INVOLVED IN THE TORTURE AND ABUSE OF PEOPLE DURING THE LAST EIGHT YEARS AS WELL AS EVERY ONE OF THEM ENABLERS AND APOLOGISTS IS FOUND GUILTY AND IMPRISONED FOR WAR CRIMES!
Don't worry, there's no one who has a set of balls enough to launch that kind of thing that would lead to imprisoning war criminals nor are the American people willing to admit that we are worse than Nazi Germany when it comes to war crimes. We not the great nation we once were; we are a nation criminals and no longer one of laws.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Is this the Nazi Germany that P.Bush and large bits of america funded for the first half of the war while the real allies were fighting it and then only switched sides halfway though because it was more profitable; then gave asylum to swathes of the Nazis as long as they brought they tech and know how with them ?
Yes I thought so ........
especially on Faux News?
That they are gaining ground and credibility in the US and accepted by more and more is the frightening bit.
Just watching what people there class as news shows what a joke the US is.
And that people there defend it ........ mind blowing.
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