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You've just got to love the framing they used for this segment from CNN's Parker/Spitzer earlier this week -- Can a centrist movement in the U.S. succeed or is it too 'mushy' to hold up?

This just smells of more Republican re-branding with some of the so-called Republican "moderates" wanting to distance themselves from the teabirchers that have taken over their party. They may have done well during the mid-term elections just catering to their base, but that's not going to work so well in 2012.

Former Rudy Giuliani staffer John Avlon's been pushing this nonsense for some time now, but as Karoli pointed out last week, there's a new group jumping on his bandwagon as well. Kathleen Parker never mentioned the "No Labels" group during the segment, but it may as well have been an infomercial for them by Parker and Avlon.

It's really a shame that Thomas Frank wasn't allowed to speak more to counter Avlon's talking points. Kathleen Parker and John Avlon can put all of the "mushy middle", "we're a center-right country", bipartisan spin on this they want. It's not going to change the fact that they're both a couple of right wingers. There's not a lick of difference between their economic policy positions and those of Dick Armey and the Koch brothers.

CNN's off air interview with Frank looked a lot more interesting than listening to Avlon's claptrap about how voters just really want all the bickering to stop and for our politicians to all just get along, which is doublespeak demanding Democratic capitulation.

Q: If we could arrange a private conversation between you and Rep. John Boehner, what would you say to him?

FRANK: I was struck by his line about Democrats “snuffing out the America that I grew up in.” It’s a charge that I frequently apply to conservatives, who have so resolutely smashed the middle-class society where I grew up in favor of a nation that is heaven on earth for the very rich—and an endless, losing struggle for working people. It’s also something I often say about market forces generally, which are the most radical and disruptive cultural influences I know of. Conservatives always claim to love the market and to deplore what’s happening in “the culture,” but they never explain how they can hold these two views at the same time. Wouldn’t it be great to have John Boehner himself sort out these things out for us?

I’m also always been impressed by his luminous neckties, and I would of course tell him so.

Q: What credit do you give the Tea Party for changing American politics at this moment?

FRANK: They demonstrated two important things:

- That the supposed power of centrism is in fact just a comforting beltway fairytale. That the “median voter” doesn’t really determine things. That politics really is a battle of small, committed groups—and also of money.

- That there’s a place in politics for class-based discontent. That conservatives can speak to that emotion just as readily as liberals can. And that if liberals don’t understand this—if they just blow it off on the grounds that working-class people will always vote for Democrats because duh—that they will keep losing, and they will deserve to lose. [...]

Q:As you get older, do you find yourself becoming more or less liberal?

FRANK: Not speaking strictly for myself here, but what I find people outgrow isn’t liberalism per se, it’s the tendency to treat politics like a branch of aesthetics, where what matters are gestures and what you’re after—the object of politics—is a demonstration of your originality and your surpassing cleverness. When you get older you realize how impotent that approach is, and you also understand the disastrous consequences things like, say, banking deregulation have for people.

Full transcript of the clip above below the fold.

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John Avlon Hypes Americans' Fears About Deficit

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Rep. Alan Grayson and former Rudy Giuliani staffer and king of the false equivalencies Wingnut author John Avlon had a little dust up over polls on John King's show. Grayson took Avlon to task over a recent Gallup poll which shows President Obama's approval rating down to 38% with independent voters. What I wish he'd have called him out for is his claim that voters are more worried about the debt than jobs and the economy. Since he used the words "independent voters" and didn't say which poll he was citing it's impossible to say if he was cherry picking some statistics.

The larger problem with what Avlon did here is one that Digby pointed out a few weeks ago.

Conflation Fail:

FAIR does an overview of the polls which show that the beltway obsession with the deficit is not, in fact, shared by the country.

But I did want to highlight this one piece of evidence supporting my contention that to the extent people do care about --- they just don't understand it. [...]

This is one of the reasons why I have been so frantic that the administration was feeding into the deficit hysteria. They don't seem to get that people don't actually care about "the deficit," they care about "the economy" and they fail to make a distinction between the two, especially since we have right wing wrecking crew that makes a point of conflating the two.

It's a problem.

Yes it is and people like Avlon here hyping fears over the deficit is just another example.

Transcript via CNN below the fold.

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Is anyone else as tired of seeing this man compare apples to oranges day after day on CNN? I've had about a belly full of him ever since he came on the air and compared Ed Schultz and Alan Grayson to Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin in his weekly "Wingnuts" segment on Saturdays. In this segment it was Nancy Pelosi somehow being equal to Rush Limbaugh and Dick Armey in John Avlon's world.

First of all, Nancy Pelosi does not "run the Congress". She is the Speaker of the House and she has no control over what happens in the Senate. And she's "polarizing" because flame throwers like Armey and Limbaugh love to beat up on her night and day and paint her as some evil flaming liberal that's out to destroy the country with her "socialist agenda". Nancy Pelosi is not out there race baiting and working wingnuts into a lather day after day like Armey and Limbaugh are.

I've got issues with Nancy Pelosi but it's for allowing the Bush administration to have a pass afer the Democrats got the House back and took impeachment off the table.

Transcript below the fold via CNN.

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More of the false equivalency game from John Avlon and David Gergen on Anderson Cooper 360. While both of them warn that this could get out of hand and escalate to more violence, neither are willing to lay the blame squarely in the lap of the Republican Party where it belongs. When one party is using eliminationist rhetoric with no regard for the consequences and the other party is merely pointing out their bad behavior, the side pointing out the bad behavior is not the problem. I'd like to ask Avlon and Gergen if they blame the Civil Rights leaders of the sixties for the actions of the Klan since they seem to be buying into the argument that it's okay to blame victims for the actions of their attackers.

Transcript via CNN.

COOPER: Just to recap the breaking news, the House tonight approving the final piece of health care reform legislation, the final fixes, all that brinkmanship, all that maneuvering, passed by the Senate earlier today. When President Obama signs the fixes, that is it.

But, for some, especially angry opponents of the reform bill, the administration, the IRS, you name it, it is not over -- windows broken, death threats made, some scary stuff, and allegations that some are fanning the flames for political gain.

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While I can’t disagree with all of John Avalon’s points such as the fact that yes, there have been violent extremist groups on all sides of the political spectrum throughout the years in American history and that yes, the Internet has allowed groups of people who share common beliefs to form a sort of group-think, reinforcing the stereotypes they share, but Avalon’s problem is as we’ve already noted, is making false equivalencies time and time again. He had to go back to Huey Long and some of the uprisings of the sixties to give any legitimate and specific examples of what would be considered comparable to what we’re seeing from the right today.

Earlier in this interview on C-SPAN’s BookTV, Avlon tries to paint those that were upset with George Bush as being the same as those out there calling Obama Hitler and a Socialist and saying they “want their country back” and the type of violent rhetoric we’re seeing out of these teabaggers and Republican members of Congress. First of all, there is very little similarity between “Bush derangement syndrome” and “Obama derangement syndrome”. In case Mr. Avlon slept through the last ten years, he should have noticed that what angered a lot of people about George Bush becoming President is that the Republicans did actually steal that election.

You have to discount the anger over what Katherine Harris did in Florida and the Supreme Court installing George Bush as president. You have to discount that there were plenty of things George Bush did after the election that also had those on the left legitimately upset like oh say… torture, invading countries that were not a threat to us, spying on everyone, giving tax cuts to the richest among us, taking every department of government and putting industry hacks in charge of departments that they’re supposed to safe guard, using our Department of Justice for political purposes, stealing another election, outing a CIA agent who's husband dared to call you out on your WMD lies, the failure to react properly to Hurricanes Katrina and Rita and on and on and on again.

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Cenk Uygur Debates 'Wingnuts' Author John Avlon

Cenk Uygur took on one of my least favorite pundits, John Avlon, in this segment on The Young Turks and did what you never see anyone in the our "mainstream media" do when allowing this hack to come on their shows, which is to call him out for the fact that there is no one on the left that you can honestly compare to the ultra-crazies we have on the right side of the aisle right now. The best Avlon could muster without going back to the 60's was to call unions left wing extremists.

Cenk made some other really great points like just how far to the right our country has moved when it comes to what you'd call a "centrist" these days and does a good job of attempting to explain to Avlon that what he calls "centrist" is actually "corporatist" and that when it comes to the issues that really matter to most Americans and what is causing to get hammered economically, unlike the wedge issues that get everyone riled up, people on the left and progressives are losing those battles, whether it be the bank bailouts, health care reform or tax breaks for the rich and for corporations. He also did a really good job explaining just how far what used to be called the center has shifted to the right where the positions of those on the left are what used to be considered moderate and that a lot of Republicans from past eras would be run out of today's Republican Party.

My only quibble with Cenk about this interview would be that he allowed Avlon to filibuster him a bit too often. He did finally have enough of it later in the interview and stopped him so he could make his points. He also allowed him to be portrayed as "independent" and didn't point out to his viewers that he worked for Rudy Giuliani.

That said it was a breath of fresh air to see this guy get challenged in the manner he deserves for once and premise of his book, which tries to paint people on the left as extremists when they're not and that calls centrism giving corporate America anything it wants, called a bunch of nonsense, which it is. Avlon finally showed his true colors with being an anti-union zealot in this interview with Cenk. It doesn't surprise me one bit but makes me dislike him even more than I did before listening to him call us "extremists" who are destroying America and the Democratic Party.

It's a long interview, over twenty minutes but if you've got that time to spare it is well worth is watching the king of the false equivalencies get his talking points taken apart for once. Good for Cenk. It would be nice to see MSNBC give him a job if they allowed him to do the type of interviews he just did here instead of just having him on Ratigan's show to debate wingnuts in a five minute debate box with Ratigan controlling the narrative. I'd say this interview ranks right up there with his take down of S.E. Cupp and Wayne Allyn Root.



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As I said in the New Rules post, the Overtime segment of Real Time was the best part of the show. It's too bad they spent so much time arguing about religion during the panel segment that most people missed this if they didn't go watch it on line.

I was really happy to hear someone finally call John Avalon out for that "Wingnuts" book of his that CNN has been allowing him to push for the better part of a year or so. Actually, this isn't the first time someone's said this to him. An audience member on his book tour called him out as well and he wasn't too happy about it. He couldn't just blow off Bill Maher the way he did that audience member. For more of Avlon's hackery, you can see past posts here.

As I wrote in my post about one of his appearances on AC360 with David Gergen:

This John Avlon, who continually looks like he's trying to prove the points he made in his "Wingnuts" book rather than talk about the reality of our political situation in this country, is particularly annoying. Given this guy was the Chief Speechwriter and Deputy Policy Director for Rudy Giuliani's 2008 Presidential Campaign, I guess nothing that comes out of his mouth should be too surprising.

Avlon pretends to be an independent but anyone who worked for Mr. Noun-a-Verb-and-9-11 is no impartial political pundit.

h/t Amato for the vid.



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Is anyone else as tired as I am of watching Anderson Cooper bring these two on his show night after night to talk about this non-existent middle that the President is supposed to be catering to without acknowledging that the Republican Congress has been one of the most obstructionist in the history of our country?

This John Avlon who continually looks like he's trying to prove the points he made in his "Wingnuts" book rather than talk about the reality of our political situation in this country is particularly annoying. Given this guy was the Chief Speechwriter and Deputy Policy Director for Rudy Giuliani's 2008 Presidential Campaign I guess nothing that comes out of his mouth should be too surprising.

Anyone who can equate Alan Grayson to Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin frankly just needs to just STFU and get off my television screen IMHO. Instead he's given a platform night after night or on CNN's morning show to convince Americans that if the Democrats just give the Republicans everything they want those "Independent" voters will love them and all will be well.

And David Gergen thinks the President needs to get out there and listen to those tea baggers and their complaints. Yeah, that's going to work David. If he just talks nice to them maybe they'll put away those Joker and Hitler signs they're carrying and start to love him. I'm sure if he tried you'd all be talking about how the uppity black man who's out of touch with the common folk is "lecturing" them.

I agree with Gergen on one point. The public did send President Obama to Washington to get results and not just to give speeches. The public is going to calm down if they see things getting better in their daily lives and not worse. Since the Republicans have absolutely no desire to govern but instead destroy government so they can prove their own talking points that government doesn't work and use that as an excuse to privatize everything, they and the ConservaDems that share their philosophy are not going to allow that to happen.

Maybe when the pitchforks finally start coming out because people are so fed up they'll finally change their tune. I don't think we'll see the likes of Gergen or anyone in our mainstream media admit what too many of our politicians actually think government is good for before hell freezes over, which is lining the pockets of those that get them elected and then using that money to get elected again. We need some real campaign finance reform before that's going to change.

Transcript via CNN below the fold.

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Former Chief Speechwriter and Deputy Policy Director for Rudy Giuliani's 2008 Presidential Campaign John Avlon in another one of his false equivalency Wingnuts segments compares the attempted citizen's arrest of Karl Rove by Code Pink to the Hutaree militia planning to attack and kill law enforcement officers and their families.

CHETRY: So, let's start with wingnuts on the left this week. You're calling out a group that we saw a lot of during the George W. Bush administration, anti-war group, Code Pink. What happened this time?

AVLON: That's exactly right. Code Pink sort of blasts from the past, engaging in the kind of street theater confrontational tactics this time at a book signing by Karl Rove, former Bush advisor, in Beverly Hills. They tried to do a citizens arrest and it was all caught on tape.

CHETRY: And a little bit of what happened, and how Rove was able to get in what you call the best line of the night. Here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look what did you, you outed a CIA officer. You lied to take to us to war. You ruined the country.

KARL ROVE, FMR. BUSH ADVSIOR: Here's the deal --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only comfort I take is that you're going to rot in hell.

ROVE: With all due respect, this goes to show the totalitarianism of the left. They don't believe in -- they don't believe in dialogue. They don't believe in courtesy. They don't believe in First Amendment rights for anybody but themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: They don't believe in First Amendments for anybody but themselves, and Karl Rove dissing what he called the totalitarianism of the left.

But really, I mean, this is classic wingnut stuff. It's great theater, politics of confrontation and these ugly, ugly accusations, rot in the hell.

ROBERTS: All right. What about the wingnuts on the right?

AVLON: The wingnut on the rights -- a whole different breed, ladies and gentlemen. You know, earlier this week, we saw the arrests of the Hutaree militia group in Michigan.

This is a real deep strayed wingnut, kind of off-the-bridge stuff. Its leader David Stone convinced several members of his family and others to take military training and most important, most crucially, a plot allegedly to kill law enforcement officer and detonate an IED during his funeral procession to set off a civil war inside the United States.

Transcript via CNN.



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January 01, 2010 CNN

Heather: Only the Villagers like those on CNN would think that Ed Schultz and Rep. Alan Grayson's fiery rhetoric during the health care debate is the same as the insanity of Glenn Beck, Rep. Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin. Shame on John Avlon and CNN for this bit of false equivalency bullpucky.

JOHNS: Every week independent analyst John Avlon joins us to name the Wingnuts of the Week. Wingnuts, according to John, are professional partisans and unhinged activists.

KAYE: John even has a book coming out called "Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America." And he's put together a list of last year's 2009 worst offenders. He joined Kiran Chetry to countdown the top five, including the biggest wingnut of the year.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Let's just get right to the list. We did this little countdown, and we're going to start with number five. So who made the cut for wingnut -- top five wingnut?

JOHN AVLON, INDEPENDENT POLITICAL ANALYST: Top five wingnut, big threshold, we have Ed Schultz, sort of aiming to be the liberal Rush Limbaugh this year. And here's one comment he made this fall regarding health care that really stood out.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED SCHULTZ, HOST, THE ED SHOW: The Republicans lie. They want to see you dead. They'd rather make money off your dead corpse. They kind of like it when that woman has cancer, and they don't have anything for her. That's how the insurance companies make money -- by denying the coverage. My God, Democrats, what's wrong with you? You can't deal with these people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Wow. That's wingnut stuff.

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